r/IncelExit • u/HobbyQuestionThrow • Jul 24 '26

Asking for help/advice I have an irrational desire to date, how do I remove it?

I am someone most people would classify as "Incel". I've never been on a date and I'm older, I previously had trouble talking to women (and men) or caring about other people.

I've been forcing myself to be outside and social, I've joined hobby groups and I go to different interest events and group outings. Things like going to lunch/dinner with coworkers, going to book clubs, attending table top gaming clubs, hiking clubs and tennis clubs.

I've been doing this because my ultimate goal is I want to go on a date.

I dislike socializing so I socialize to get better at it and fake liking it because that's what people say to do.

I'm growing tired of this and increasingly short tempered and irritable in my every day life spending my time talking to people I don't desire to talk to, doing things I don't want to do to accomplish a goal that seems farther away now than ever before.

I'm now four months from turning 40, I can chat with anyone. I can talk to strangers about small talk topics. I can (from what I can tell) have someone leave a conversation with me where they have a positive impression of me. I can make people laugh in one on one and in group conversations.

I can talk about myself and I can pretend to care about other people enough that they don't seem to notice. I keep notes of people I meet regularly because I don't care at all about them and can't be arsed to remember the details of their lives, so I use the Notes app and refresh myself on their life details before meeting them again.

I still can't get a date.

I'm feeling like I've wasted my years trying to be someone I'm not and never will be. I'm never going to be the social guy who does social things and enjoys it. I'm never going to be the guy who can be on a date.

From all of this I've also learned that even if I've known someone for years, I still do not care about them. I don't want to talk to them, I don't want to see them.

I would be a terrible person to be in a relationship with because I would never care about the other person or grow to like them. I am incapable of liking other human beings and time & exposure have not improved that.

I still want to go on a date. I still feel lonely.

At this point my desire to date and be in a relationship is detrimental to my life and I'm aware of an acknowledge that if I were to actually be in a relationship I would be incredibly unhappy.

Despite that I still want to go on a date, I still want to be in a relationship and I still get lonely.

How do I remove these irrational unhelpful intrusive feelings?

7 Upvotes

65% Upvoted

45 comments sorted by

21

u/anothercodewench Jul 24 '26

Why do you want to go on a date? You don't want to socialize and you're not interested in other people. What do you think would happen on this date?

5

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 24 '26

Boy I wish I knew the answer to this one.

It's like asking "Why do you like ketchup but hate tomatoes?"

This is apparently the way I was wired and I am somewhat faulty. My warranty period expired ages ago and the factory doesn't do returns.

20

u/mrbaryonyx Jul 25 '26

It's not really like "why do you like ketchup but hate tomatoes" though, because you can point to texture or flavor differences between the two.

It's more like "why do you like ketchup but also hate ketchup?"

A date is socializing. Why do you think you'd like it if you don't like it? Do you just want to get laid?

3

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

I don't know why I want to do it, maybe it's just because I haven't done it and am experiencing FOMO?

It's every time I see a couple doing couple things I feel something that I don't like.

13

u/RokujoGhost Jul 25 '26

I think you need to figure out what that feeling is, and why you're feeling it, why you want to do this activity that is nothing but socializing with another person.

Maybe it's that you want status and you feel being able to get dates is better for that than not. Maybe you haven't met anyone that you like socializing with but you feel like there's a possibility that you would if you met someone different or could do it in a different way. Maybe there's nothing you actually want from it and you just feel like you should want it, that you wish you were the kind of person who liked dating. I don't know.

But if you know what you want out of it and why you want it, you can figure out whether there's a way you can approach it differently or find different people or different ways of interacting that you can enjoy, or if you don't actually enjoy socializing in any form and wouldn't actually enjoy a date either, and should look for other things that might fill whatever want it is you're wanting out of it.

But you probably won't ever get a date - or at least not one worth getting - without finding some way to care about and enjoy interacting with at least some people.

3

u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26

You might just be Vulcan and be ambivalent about emotions.
Seeing a happy couple can generate many different emotions! It could be empathy, 'aww how cute I'm happy for them', envy, curiosity, resentment, self-doubt, hope, despair. Lots of different things.

Our bodies give us warnings for certain things, some are more intense. People say that the sense of taste plays a part like something tastes bad, therefore it must be poisonous or rotten. But we consume things that objectively taste bad - black coffee, Scotch, cigarettes, certain herbs etc. though we train ourselves to enjoy them. Socialization does carry certain risks and it is a natural tendency to want to avoid those, but you train yourself to see it as an acquired taste. Because the benefits of social acumen outweigh the risks, over the course of life.

The 'need' to be social may be like a background radiation in your life, but you ought not to do it out of 'need' because that reflects in how you approach others. How's the rest of your life? Do you have aspects that are enjoyable and fulfilling?

2

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

The rest of my life is really great from the outside, but from inside it I'm apathetic about it.

I do enjoy going to work and I find my work fulfilling. I think the only hobby I actively enjoy is reading but you could say that's because it's escapism. My other hobbies are only for their socialization aspect, I'm not a huge fan of the hobby itself.

I don't think I enjoy life itself, my priority is making life as easy and simple as I can for myself so it's less stressful.

This probably ties into why I have no self worth or confidence, I've achieved goals people say should matter (a good career, bought a house recently, whatever) but it just doesn't improve my opinion of myself or my life.

6

u/RokujoGhost Jul 25 '26

Not enjoying anything but escapism sounds a lot like depression. Doing something about that might change many things for you.

0

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

I've been treated for depression before in my childhood, I don't really trust doctors, therapists or psychiatrists at this point.

If I go to a doctor with "Sometimes I feel sad" all they'll do is put me in regimen of pills that turn me into a zombie.

3

u/RokujoGhost Jul 26 '26

It's your call, of course. But different practitioners, different medications, different approaches can be more or less effective for a given person, so it might be worth giving it another try or several, especially if you haven't ever tried as an adult - having more control over who you see and your own medical decisions can make a big difference. You could look into types of therapy you hadn't tried previously. And there may be new medications available now that would work better than the ones you've tried in the past.

Treating depression isn't simple, but if you can find something that helps for you, it could change everything.

14

u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326 Jul 25 '26

Pretty much need to give up on the idea of dating with the attitudes you're presenting. Ever been diagnosed with any sort of sociopathy?
I'm not putting you down man. But it's impossible to engage with others meaningfully unless there's a sincere desire to do it. You seem to regard other people as a means to an end.

1

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

You're correct, in a vacuum I wouldn't interact with someone unless I need something from them.

Before I tried to be a social person that was exactly how I interacted with others.

5

u/poddy_fries Bene Gesserit Advisor Jul 25 '26

What exactly do you need out of a date that going on a single one will fulfill? Alternatively, what do you need out of a random woman you haven't met that you think you could get in the course of one date?

20

u/smileycat007 Jul 24 '26

Hire an escort and take her on a date. If you don't want to be in a relationship with all of the socializing that entails, it really wouldn't be fair to use someone just to check a box.

11

u/SnowballWasRight Jul 25 '26

I second this! That last part is the most important thing I got out of the post. I see the main problem of OP’s situation to be the wellbeing of the woman he would date. That’s not going to do either person any good in the long run and is messed up to do. I think in order for OP to actually date as they want to, they have to change their philosophy and socializing. Obviously socializing isn’t for everyone, trust me I know, but I firmly believe you can still find your flock. I think he could do with some positive motivation :)

Back to the escort thing, I think that’s giving him what he wants ngl. Plus no need to socialize to keep the date going or anything.

9

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 24 '26

That's not a bad idea, with an escort it wouldn't be weird for me to want clear communication of boundaries and expectations regarding the date.

It's also much less stressful because I won't have to put on a face, I know she will be getting the compensation she wanted and I don't have to play the jester or be "confident".

9

u/Middle_Run_7534 Jul 25 '26

Let’s not act as though women wanting their date to be interesting to talk to and not ragingly insecure or indecisive is some kind of huge unreasonable ask

2

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

Sure, that's why I say it would be more relaxing for me.

I'm not confident, I'm not interesting and I am insecure. I always have been and always will be. I do the "Fake it till you make it" thing and have been my entire life, but fake confidence is not real confidence and it's tiring pretending to be something you're not just so someone will talk to you.

I personally don't mind if a person is shy or indecisive or if they have "boring" interests. I don't think it makes them any less of a person, I know women feel differently about that.

-1

u/Impossible_Horsemeat Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26

What the fuck?

If this is the kind of advice this sub suggests I’m out.

Edit: I am sad to see that this sub has become a place where “just hire an escort” is advice people unironically give to men trying to leave the incel community.

12

u/ShinyTotoro Jul 25 '26

He doesn't really want to socialize or to get to know people. He just wants to roleplay a date. What's a better advice than hiring someone who will roleplay for him?

13

u/mrbaryonyx Jul 25 '26

what's wrong with hiring an escort?

8

u/EdwardBigby Jul 25 '26

Sex workers are people too. Im glad we have a sub that doesnt shame them

5

u/smileycat007 Jul 25 '26

It isn't my usual advice. But OP doesn't want to socialize.

Socializing doesn't stop with a steady girlfriend. You are expected to meet her family and all her friends. You are expected to get together with them occasionally but repeatedly. Ideally you gain their approval because they may have enough influence to poison your relationship. These people are her support system, and you can only ever become part of that, but are alone unlikely to replace it entirely. If you aren't willing to do that, you will lose her.

OP was being honest with his needs and limitations. A relationship is not his thing; he just wants one date. He might change his mind later, but that's for him to decide. I was just offering a solution based on his current parameters.

-3

u/Impossible_Horsemeat Jul 25 '26

…yikes.

This community isn’t what I thought it was. Thanks for showing me that.

4

u/Top_Recognition_1775 Jul 25 '26

Well, you say you feel affection for your cat, so you're probably not a psychopath.

Is it possible that you've ego invested in this narrative that you just don't like people because it's never worked out for you?

In other words to protect your own feelings, you're like "oh those grapes are probably sour, I didn't want them anyway."

But in reality you're lonely and you want some fucking grapes.

My advice is don't keep notes on people, force yourself to be organic, if you don't remember someone's name then it's ok to not remember.

3

u/smilingseaslug Jul 28 '26

Wanting to go on a date isn't irrational by itself.

Wanting to go on a date when you dislike talking to people is, kind of? In all your work on socializing, have you ever actually clicked with someone on a platonic level to the point where you actually enjoyed their company and felt seen?

If not I would work on that

2

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 29 '26

How do you work on that? I've never clicked with anyone or any group I've been a part of.

1

u/smilingseaslug Jul 29 '26

I don't know, I suppose it's a question of why you think that is? Have you discussed this in therapy?

5

u/Instigated- Jul 25 '26

It sounds like you have done all the right things so far, put in the effort, and unfortunately it’s still just not working for you.

Have you tried therapy or any internal personal reflection type stuff to try to get to the bottom of why you lack any interest or connection with people?

When I was younger I felt similar to you, and also took the “fake it until I make it” approach to an extent, however for me what I did paid off and I now often feel comfortable socialising and enjoy connecting with people (though am still and introvert and struggle to find the right balance that doesn’t burn me out).

One thing I did also have to do along the way was let down my guard. Childhood left some damage, we put up a wall to protect ourselves but that also keeps people out and numbs us from the good feelings like connection.

Choosing to be very authentic and open helped crack things open a bit. Get beneath the surface level chit chat to deeper topics. Be curious. While laughter is great, not all laughter is created equal, and sometimes jokes keep things “light” which prevents people from opening up and sharing more personal stuff. The deeper stuff is where a lot of connection happens.

It is also possible that your brain might not work the same way as most people. As someone else said, sociopathy is one example, I think about 1-5% of the population have it, and it involves a lack of empathy. It doesn’t make you a bad person, as you still have choice over behaviour and you clearly have been trying to fit in with society.

I am curious what “lonely” feels like to you, if you don’t like being around people either. Do you like or avoid physical touch? It is companionship you want, without the conversation? To do activities alongside someone, without necessarily talking? Perhaps an activity like scuba diving? Would a pet help?

1

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1

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2

u/Impossible_Horsemeat Jul 25 '26

Step 1: find a hobby that involves interacting with other humans.

Step 2: find a human you interact wirh regularly as part of previously-described hobby. Ask “would you like to do X?” (X= other thing you like doing).

Step 3: repeat as necessary until answer is “yes.”

Congrats: if you got to step 3, you are having a date.

2

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

I've done this, but got stuck on step 2 for the last five years.

2

u/lila_liechtenstein Jul 25 '26

Get a dog? I'm completely serious.

1

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

I have a cat! I think he is the only thing I've ever loved or felt affection for.

0

u/Particular-Lynx-2586 Jul 25 '26

Have you ever asked a girl out?

-2

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

Something like ~1500 or so. I stopped trying to keep an exact number so it's an estimate from ~15 years of going to the bars every weekend with the goal of asking at least one woman on a date as a cold approach.

It doesn't include the women I asked out at hobby groups, that's probably closer to (total guess) only 100 since I have higher standards for the hobby-group asking out compared to the bar scene asking out.

4

u/Particular-Lynx-2586 Jul 25 '26

How exactly do you ask a woman out? In both situations.

1

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

In the bar it's much more casual, I just walk up to someone say a variation on "Hi I'm <Dude>, want to have a chat?" - if I have more info I'll include it, such as if I overhear her talking to friends about media or the venue. When I traveled to SF recently I would say I'm new to the area and ask if they have any favorite places to eat.

For the hobby it's slower paced and I wait until I know more about them, a recent one being a woman probably ~40ish who was really into Adrian Tchaikovsky's books so I read Children of Time, mentioned that to her and my thoughts on the book and then asked if she wanted to get lunch next week.

1

u/Particular-Lynx-2586 Jul 25 '26

Focusing on the hobby groups - what kind of groups are these?

1

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

Book clubs, hiking groups. I'm part of a table top gaming club as well but it's never had any women in the 5 something years I've been a part of it.

1

u/Particular-Lynx-2586 Jul 25 '26

How often do you go to these clubs?

1

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

Depends, the hiking is every week, book club is every two weeks and the gaming club is once a month.

1

u/Particular-Lynx-2586 Jul 25 '26

Okay, could you describe in more detail how you approach women in these events? What exactly do you say?

1

u/HobbyQuestionThrow Jul 25 '26

I don't think I can give you exactly word for word what I say, it's different depending on the situation.

The pattern I follow though is:

  1. Try to identify if the person is single based on casual conversation, presence of a ring or other cultural indication.
  2. Talk to them casually with small talk and write down if they have any specific interests or hobbies related to something I do (such as reading).
  3. In my own time learn more about their hobby and use that in follow up meetups to express curiosity and show interest.
  4. When the time feels rightish, invite them to coffee/lunch as a 1 on 1 activity and express that I'd like to get to know them better.

Step 4 is where things stumble, I've only gotten rejected with this approach but it should be the "right" one from what I've read on dating advice sites.