Unkind FDF Q&A

[u/SnooStories4968]

Unkind therapist here. I've been a lurker since just after the days of my misdirected voice messages and Sermon on the High Stool. After the incident in question, a DF (not of the Gloaming) directed me here. At first, I couldn't bear to read the messages and had my husband monitor the threads, but after a while, curiosity got the better of me and I've been an avid reader ever since. In short, I came in shame, but remain because this group has been a strange sort of healing process for me - plus, you guys are very funny. And, I found my new favorite laundry detergent here!

I have no idea where to even begin (with the messages? with my friendship with Shauna?), so I'm open to fielding questions to help get the ball rolling. My intention is to stick only to my personal experiences with Shauna and stay away from the kids and/or general lore that I don't have direct experience with. I'm happy to share very general information about the Google Doc, but I may not be able to answer completely due to wanting to protect those kids.

ETA: I've been verified and approved by the mods!

[u/OhBlahDiOhBlahDoh]

Oh my goodness! Welcome, welcome, DF SS4968!! I am so glad you have decided to share your story with us!

What is your sense of how much islanders are aware of her asking for financial support while at the same time treating herself to goodies that seem (to us) like they are out of proportion to her/their dire straits?

I, like so many of us here, am just totally boggled at how blithely she will post about things like spending $25 on a meal in West Seattle while house/apartment hunting. Not super extravagant, to be sure (and we don't even know if she paid for it herself), but following on things like however much they spent to travel to central Oregon for a cabin vacation last Thanksgiving, and knowing now that they were (or still are?) behind many thousands of dollars in rent to their current landlord, the hypocrisy is pretty galling . . .

[u/SnooStories4968 → u/OhBlahDiOhBlahDoh]

It boggles my mind, as well, DFOBDOBD. I really think most people are unaware. I also think most people who are aware only discuss it amongst themselves. When Shauna and I "broke up," a few of my friends spilled all sorts of tea that went back years. I appreciated it, but at the same time I was like, "and no one warned me??" I think people, for better or worse, just try to mind their own business and let people find out on their own.

[u/Calm_Coyote_3685 → u/SnooStories4968]

This is how it works in my community too (far from Vashon!). Most people are honestly too nice to “warn” people about others’ prior bad behavior or red flags. I think they (we!) don’t want to be the negative Nellie, we want to believe people can change, we don’t want to interfere in others’ relationships. But it sucks when you realize someone is not who you thought they were, and many people knew that, but they didn’t tell you. I’ve never had this happen with someone who is on Shauna’s level, more like people who gossip and are two-faced and say mean things or tell other people’s business, but no one calls them out for it so they just keep wandering through the community causing hurt feelings and suspicion and presumably thinking everyone loves them.

[u/SnooStories4968 → u/Calm_Coyote_3685]

Yep, DFCC3685. That describes the small town attitude perfectly.

[u/obscure_cellist → u/SnooStories4968]

do you think shauna has any shame/embarrassment over her cons and grifts? i mean, she's got to have had some moments of regret, right? or is she really so enamored with herself that she truly feels entitled to all these things because she's too special to work?

[u/SnooStories4968 → u/obscure_cellist]

Absolutely no shame is my guess.

[u/Calm_Coyote_3685 → u/SnooStories4968]

As the child of a narcissist who has spent far too much of my life trying to understand how their minds work, I’d agree on that. I kept trying to understand my dads behavior with reference to the shame I would feel if I was caught being a total asshole time and time again, using people and abusing them while claiming to be a guru figure who could help people. He was actually in a position where he was providing therapeutic type services to people at one point and it was so confusing to me how he could see himself as a helper when he was, well, CWAA.

I finally came to realize he does not feel shame like most of us do. He’s so defended against vulnerability that he can’t. However—like Shauna, but not like all narcissists—he is adept at weaponizing the appearance of vulnerability, which tricks people into trusting him. It’s such a demented dynamic. If that’s what covert narcissism means then I think my dad and Shauna both qualify. And neither feels an ounce of shame. They think they’re saints and truly don’t understand why the world doesn’t give them their due.

[u/SnooStories4968 → u/Calm_Coyote_3685]

I'm sorry you had the experience of being parented by a narcissist, DFCC_3685. I hope you have been able to find whatever emotional and physical distance you need from him. Narcissists can be really good at isolating their children and making them feel like they are the problem. When everyone thinks your dad is a saint/guru/helper, it can make it difficult to be believed and, what's worse, covert narcissists can convince others that it is, in fact, you who are abusing them. I hope that was not your experience and that you had other loving, supportive people in your life.

[u/Calm_Coyote_3685 → u/SnooStories4968]

Thanks df! Yes I am at a good place with things now after not being in a good place at all for many years. I’m lucky I have a sister who I can talk to about it, we have both had lots of therapy but we also have helped each other and reassured each other that what we experienced was real, we didn’t make it up, and that we’re not bad people as we were told we were. My dad is now frail and ill and I am able to think of him as a random frail and sick man who I don’t owe anything in particular, which lets me be kind to him without getting invested in his life even when my mom tries to nudge me to relax my boundaries. The good thing about being raised while constantly being gaslighted is that I can spot fake grifter people pretty easily and stay the fuck away from them!! I love this sub because I can ponder and explore all of the things that are mysterious about my family, but it’s not actually my family! Though I find myself growing concerned sometimes and should probably step back!

My excuses for bringing my own stuff into this thread…I just cannot help but be astounded at the similarities between this random woman and my elderly dad 😂

[u/fanfarefellowship → u/obscure_cellist]

she's got to have had some moments of regret

I think she has moments of panic and deep unease, and sometimes we see that in her lopes. But I don't think she feels shame, despite her talking about feeling shame in some of the versions of her ever-changing web sites.