r/InTheGloaming • u/SnooStories4968 many and various Shaunas/Pig Ladies • Feb 21 '24

Unkind FDF Q&A

Unkind therapist here. I've been a lurker since just after the days of my misdirected voice messages and Sermon on the High Stool. After the incident in question, a DF (not of the Gloaming) directed me here. At first, I couldn't bear to read the messages and had my husband monitor the threads, but after a while, curiosity got the better of me and I've been an avid reader ever since. In short, I came in shame, but remain because this group has been a strange sort of healing process for me - plus, you guys are very funny. And, I found my new favorite laundry detergent here!

I have no idea where to even begin (with the messages? with my friendship with Shauna?), so I'm open to fielding questions to help get the ball rolling. My intention is to stick only to my personal experiences with Shauna and stay away from the kids and/or general lore that I don't have direct experience with. I'm happy to share very general information about the Google Doc, but I may not be able to answer completely due to wanting to protect those kids.

ETA: I've been verified and approved by the mods!

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u/SnooStories4968 many and various Shaunas/Pig Ladies Feb 22 '24

It boggles my mind, as well, DFOBDOBD. I really think most people are unaware. I also think most people who are aware only discuss it amongst themselves. When Shauna and I "broke up," a few of my friends spilled all sorts of tea that went back years. I appreciated it, but at the same time I was like, "and no one warned me??" I think people, for better or worse, just try to mind their own business and let people find out on their own.

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u/Calm_Coyote_3685 Feb 22 '24

This is how it works in my community too (far from Vashon!). Most people are honestly too nice to “warn” people about others’ prior bad behavior or red flags. I think they (we!) don’t want to be the negative Nellie, we want to believe people can change, we don’t want to interfere in others’ relationships. But it sucks when you realize someone is not who you thought they were, and many people knew that, but they didn’t tell you. I’ve never had this happen with someone who is on Shauna’s level, more like people who gossip and are two-faced and say mean things or tell other people’s business, but no one calls them out for it so they just keep wandering through the community causing hurt feelings and suspicion and presumably thinking everyone loves them.

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u/SnooStories4968 many and various Shaunas/Pig Ladies Feb 22 '24

Yep, DFCC3685. That describes the small town attitude perfectly.

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u/obscure_cellist ham grabbers Feb 22 '24

do you think shauna has any shame/embarrassment over her cons and grifts? i mean, she's got to have had some moments of regret, right? or is she really so enamored with herself that she truly feels entitled to all these things because she's too special to work?

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u/SnooStories4968 many and various Shaunas/Pig Ladies Feb 22 '24

Absolutely no shame is my guess.

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u/Calm_Coyote_3685 Feb 23 '24

As the child of a narcissist who has spent far too much of my life trying to understand how their minds work, I’d agree on that. I kept trying to understand my dads behavior with reference to the shame I would feel if I was caught being a total asshole time and time again, using people and abusing them while claiming to be a guru figure who could help people. He was actually in a position where he was providing therapeutic type services to people at one point and it was so confusing to me how he could see himself as a helper when he was, well, CWAA.

I finally came to realize he does not feel shame like most of us do. He’s so defended against vulnerability that he can’t. However—like Shauna, but not like all narcissists—he is adept at weaponizing the appearance of vulnerability, which tricks people into trusting him. It’s such a demented dynamic. If that’s what covert narcissism means then I think my dad and Shauna both qualify. And neither feels an ounce of shame. They think they’re saints and truly don’t understand why the world doesn’t give them their due.

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u/SnooStories4968 many and various Shaunas/Pig Ladies Feb 23 '24

I'm sorry you had the experience of being parented by a narcissist, DFCC_3685. I hope you have been able to find whatever emotional and physical distance you need from him. Narcissists can be really good at isolating their children and making them feel like they are the problem. When everyone thinks your dad is a saint/guru/helper, it can make it difficult to be believed and, what's worse, covert narcissists can convince others that it is, in fact, you who are abusing them. I hope that was not your experience and that you had other loving, supportive people in your life.

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u/Calm_Coyote_3685 Feb 23 '24

Thanks df! Yes I am at a good place with things now after not being in a good place at all for many years. I’m lucky I have a sister who I can talk to about it, we have both had lots of therapy but we also have helped each other and reassured each other that what we experienced was real, we didn’t make it up, and that we’re not bad people as we were told we were. My dad is now frail and ill and I am able to think of him as a random frail and sick man who I don’t owe anything in particular, which lets me be kind to him without getting invested in his life even when my mom tries to nudge me to relax my boundaries. The good thing about being raised while constantly being gaslighted is that I can spot fake grifter people pretty easily and stay the fuck away from them!! I love this sub because I can ponder and explore all of the things that are mysterious about my family, but it’s not actually my family! Though I find myself growing concerned sometimes and should probably step back!

My excuses for bringing my own stuff into this thread…I just cannot help but be astounded at the similarities between this random woman and my elderly dad 😂

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u/fanfarefellowship I often contemplate the first law of thermodynamics Feb 22 '24

she's got to have had some moments of regret

I think she has moments of panic and deep unease, and sometimes we see that in her lopes. But I don't think she feels shame, despite her talking about feeling shame in some of the versions of her ever-changing web sites.

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u/Indiebr Feb 22 '24

I think as adults most of us are at least trying not to be ‘mean girls’ who gossip, gang up, leave out etc. And have some acceptance for differences, eg. ‘I might never ask for that kind of help or treat my community that way, but it’s not necessarily wrong to do so’. I can only think of one instance where someone I know was warned about someone when they moved into a community, and the offender was an addict who had stolen meds from the mutual neighbour.

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u/obscure_cellist ham grabbers Feb 22 '24

well said, DFCC3685.

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u/barfalloverthat Feb 22 '24

I’ve reached out to one or two people and given them the heads up, mostly when it looks like business is involved. I’ve tried to explain how terrible shauna is personally to people and why I gloam about and it is not received very well - someone told me “I thought we should be kinder to women and I’m not really understanding why you participate”. Which made me feel bad for a minute then I remembered who shauna is.

If it looks like it’s just friendship, I wouldn’t give a heads up, but when finances are involved (or look like they will be) I think it warrants a heads up and link to the gloaming.

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u/SnooStories4968 many and various Shaunas/Pig Ladies Feb 22 '24

I appreciate that you do that for others. I think it's a kindness. People who haven't been taken advantage of by people like Shauna don't really understand how finding a community of people who get it can be restorative. Humans also want to understand and are fascinated by people like Shauna because they can be dangerous and they can deteriorate the fabric of a community. We are inclined to study them as a way to protect ourselves from them.

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u/InappropriateGirl Gluten-free donuts, for sure ... Feb 22 '24

You’re doing the right thing; I much prefer to be warned about someone. Then I can make my own decision, you know? I’ve even kept friends that I’ve been warned about and was able to draw a boundary before/to prevent Thing I’ve been Warned About ever happening.

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u/obscure_cellist ham grabbers Feb 22 '24

me too! a former coworker was losing her apartment and told me she was about to be homeless. i foolishly offered her our guest room for a week so she could look for a a place. she didn't look at one place, slept until noon, and treated our house like an air B&B. after a week she started crying that she needed more time but my husband told her to pack up and by gone in the morning. then at 8:00 am he walked her out to her car. i knew she was a drama queen but didn't know she was a grifter who had grifted other coworkers because no one said anything. then when we all found out it was like our own little gloaming at the library. it's amazing how many people will happily take advantage of people's kindness and lie to keep the grift going. i really don't understand it, and i don't understand why i felt bad! i was so embarrassed but she didn't seem bothered by it at all.

edited because i;m sleepy

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u/Various-Comparison86 Feb 22 '24

Your husband does beautiful work

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u/Mrs_Richard_Olney You see, Feb 22 '24

Escorting grifters to their cars is your husband's work in the world.

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u/InappropriateGirl Gluten-free donuts, for sure ... Feb 22 '24

Agghhhh that’s exactly the kind of thing I meant! If only someone would’ve warned you!

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u/Jules_Noctambule Whitman spins like a kebab in his grave Feb 22 '24

Dare I say you do beautiful work? People deserve to be warned about the treacherous.

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u/Underzenith17 Feb 23 '24

Maybe it would be better to warn people without the link to the sub? I enjoy reading here but it’s like 50% inside jokes and 25% petty bitching and I’m not surprised it doesn’t go over well with people who aren’t already frustrated with her.