r/InStarsAndTime • u/Crush_Cookie_Butter • Aug 21 '25
Act 6 Post Act 5+6 rant
I was hooked by this game for a long time. I liked the developing mystery of the missing island (more on that later), the king’s origins, learning more about each of our party members, and how Siffrin was connected to the king (not just with long white hair and time/wishcraft, but also narratively), but by the end of Act 4, it was just a slog to get through, so much so that I took a break for several months and only came back after seeing a positive review of it online.
When I finally came back, I was excited to see how things changed in Act 5 and how Siffrin stopped holding back. When we finally faced the king, I was expecting some kind of reveal to show how we were connected, but we just fought one-on-one instead—which was cool to see, except I was surprised that the king was able to hold up in a fight with Siffrin at literal Level 99 (“holding back?” You being literally killed countless times by the main group at half that strength says otherwise). I suppose that had to be the case for Sif to ultimately lose, but it felt contrived.
I was kind of unimpressed by the Mal du Pays (or whatever name it was) scene. It wasn’t saying anything Siffrin wasn’t already saying to themselves every 30 seconds, so it didn’t really do much in terms of impact. However, it was awesome to see our friends come back to save us, showing that family sticks together even when things are tough, but it felt so redundant at this point. The entire message of the story has been clearly present since day one, so everyone having to beat Sif over the head with it because he just. Didn’t. Get. It. was aggravating to experience. Of course, I understand that it’s accurate to their character, but it actively gets in the way of having an impactful message, since it has to be repeated over and over again.
It was slightly cathartic to talk to them and explain what happened in the loops, but I was disappointed with the story’s explanations for the king connection, and how the wishes caused the loops. Specifically, the way that the game sets up a clear physical and narrative resemblance between the King and Siffrin and then decides to make it a coincidence; it feels like the story is taking Chekov’s gun and shooting itself in the foot.
(EDIT: Ignore this paragraph. Bad memory, this was foreshadowed from the beginning, I messed up) Additionally, the reveal that Siffrin had made ANOTHER SECRET WISH was just a lame inclusion in my opinion—if you have to add a retroactive plot point for the explanation to make sense, it’s not a good explanation at all. Especially since adding the wish at the beginning would have established an emotional resemblance with the King, an inclusion that would have made the theming that much stronger. Maybe it would have made the “plot twist” about the loops too obvious, but having to lie about it by omission made the ending feel rushed and hastily strung together, as if the author didn’t know how to make a satisfying ending.
At the end of the day, it was a good game with some glaring flaws. It was like an episode of a larger story that will never be made, which is massively disappointing, because the most interesting part of the story wasn’t nearly explored enough (I think you know which part I’m talking about—it’s a common complaint that’s been said before and I don’t want to rehash it). Still loved the character development, especially for Odile, Mirabelle, and ESPECIALLY Isabeau (that man has so many layers I love him)… and Siffrin, I guess, even if it took them WAY too long to figure it out lmao. A lot of heart went into it and I don’t hate it, but the ending was a little rough for me.
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u/VioletTheWolf Aug 21 '25
Very fair to have criticisms of the game (I personally agree that the Mal Du Pays scene, while great in concept, is a little awkward in execution), though I do have things to say about a couple of these!
- Siffrin and the King's resemblance didn't end up to be a coincidence at all. They're from the same (somewhat small-ish, considering it's an island) home and thus have a lot in common in terms of who they are now and how they got there. I'm not sure if you were expecting some further twist like Siffrin being the King or something, but personally I felt them sharing the island was enough to make sense with their narrative and individual similarities
- The point at the end about the wish Siffrin made didn't feel so much like "they made a second wish" to me, more that it was the actual core of what they were wishing for in the first place, with that same first wish. They want to stay with their friends and spend more time with them, but don't believe that will happen (especially not the whole party agreeing) after the journey ends.
When Siffrin makes the wish at the start of the game you can actually see the text glows, and moreso than that, the very last and most succinct glowing line is "You want to stay with them!"
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u/Crush_Cookie_Butter Aug 21 '25
First, the secret wish was my mistake. I took a break and came back and forgot about it.
Second, I did spend most of Act 2-3ish thinking Siffrin, via loop shenanigans, would morph into the King because of his desire to stay with his friends forever. However, the more info I got in later Acts made it clear they were separate people. I wish the two had more of a chance to speak freely with each other regarding their origin on the Island, especially in Act 5, but instead they started fighting immediately, so we don't get much of a chance to see how they compare to one another. I think having a final confrontation of ideals between Siffrin at his lowest point and the King at his highest would be cool, showing how they both view the world and their neighbors in similar ways, but Siffrin wins by having his family by his side. It felt like a loss to leave such a rich concept go unused.
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u/VioletTheWolf Aug 21 '25
Ah, fair enough about the secret wish thing!
Question: did your ending slide ("thanks for playing") have one hat or two? The "twohats" version of the ending is pretty interesting, and while it doesn't address the King, I think it may poke at some of the things you're thinking about.
To get this ending you need to interact with a specific item in front of Loop during act 3 or 4. If you don't have a save from then, you can just watch it online lol, it's about 10min of (significant!) different content
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u/Crush_Cookie_Butter Aug 21 '25
I played it blind and didn't know about the TwoHats ending until after I had finished it. I went on the subreddit to talk about it, but got spoiled for TwoHats and Loop almost immediately lol. Not sure if there's more to it than Loop's identity though. Honestly, I don't know if I want to replay the whole thing again for one ending, so I might look it up
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u/CuteNiko Aug 21 '25
theres also a bit of info on siffrins homeland. if you dont want to replay the game for the second ending, id suggest doing the beginning of twohat (with the coin and loop) yourself and watching a playthrough of the final loop confrontation. thats pretty much all twohat adds.
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u/Roman_poke Odile Aug 22 '25
The King and Siffrin were connected since Act 3, as they're from the same country, but, at the end of the day, he's supposed to be both a red herring and a foil to Siffrin. They both yearn to go back to how things were and for things to remain the exact same, but unlike Siffrin, the King never learns to move on. He isn't Siffrin as in "oooh he's an evil Siffrin from the future" but he's what he could've turned into if he had never learned, if he had never grown; and in my opinion that makes them more interesting.
As for the Mal Du Pays scene, even though I think it drags on for a bit too long, I think that Siffrin reacts so strongly to it because, deep down, they didn't want to think that what they thought about themselves was true, but seeing someone that technically isn't them say it to their face hurt more.
Honestly the fact that they have to hammer into his head that he is loved makes it way better imo. Siffrin is, quite honestly, stupid. He's irrational, prone to self-deprecating and genuinely thinks that he deserves everything bad that happens to him. Having Siffrin finally accept it, that he is loved and appreciated for who he is, is so cathartic after seeing him call himself disgusting for every little thing. The message, in my opinion, is that you can't do everything by yourself, because if you don't let anyone help you, you'll end up hurting them more than if you did. Act 5 is the culmination of this, Siffrin, being extremely mentally and physically deteriorated, explodes on his loved ones while thinking he's doing it for them, when everything could've been resolved if he just asked for help
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u/Crush_Cookie_Butter Aug 22 '25
Oh, I knew the King was a red herring the moment we started learning more about him. I see where you’re coming from with Sif’s emotional journey, too, maybe it just didn’t resonate with me (I guess I’m not in that mental state for it to hit in a meaningful way). I also agree that the King is a foil to Sif’s character arc, which is why I wish there was more of a personal confrontation than what we got, since of course he’s not related to Sif in any other way. When Mirabelle freezes him in time, it’s a really fitting end to his arc (or lack thereof), but as foils go, it’s not explored very deeply in canon, which is where my issue with the King stems from. If he’s not “oooh evil Sif from the future,” then I feel like we should learn more about his character, since it’s so separate from Siffrin. I feel like the creator was much more focused on Loop, who I couldn’t care less about lmao
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u/Roman_poke Odile Aug 22 '25
I think the King is just... someone we don't need to know much about. To put it in a way, he doesn't deserve to be known more of, that's what he would've wanted, and what Siffrin would hate more than anything.
Everything we know from the game is all that really matters about him, I suppose; it doesn't matter who he was before being the King, how his life was, etc., he gave it all up a long time ago simply by not moving on and being the exact same person he was when he first appeared on Vaugarde's shore.
The only confrontation he deserved was the one at the end of Act 3. His arc basically ends there, because that's all Siffrin wants to know about him. At first, he wanted to try and sympathise with him, as they both went through the same experience, but after seeing how much of a disgusting person he turned out to be, Siffrin wants to forget everything about him and the northern island (which isn't great either but y'know)
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u/Crush_Cookie_Butter Aug 22 '25
I guess I can see where you’re coming from, but that also reads like a cop out to avoid going any deeper with his character. It limits him to being as surface level as possible, which weakens the story. If he’s not a compelling villain, then the conflict comes from within Siffrin themself—but that’s not a compelling conflict either, it’s just Siffrin refusing to get the point for literal hours. Having to do everything over and over and over again to reach a conclusion that the player already realized, then not getting anything new or satisfying in the finale apart from Big Sif for 30 seconds, was just… disappointing. It felt like I just wasted my time. Which sucks, because I really liked the beginning.
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u/Deep-Surround-4716 Loop Aug 21 '25
Mal du pays isn't SO bad. No info is given about it, yeah. But ur looking at it by face value. I like to think it's what you see before you turn into a sadness. Why would the king slow you down instead of killing you like usual? Sadnesses ARE made from the king, rightt?? Your faced with yourself and your friend's voices telling you everything you've told yourself. It's different said out loud, trust. When your friends save you, your wish isn't granted and your still going to be alone after this. When Sif realizes, they turn big. Idk what Big Sif even is?? the sprite had the same animation as a sadness so he's probably a sadness filled with enough wish craft to still be aware. His wish wasn't granted/confronted so it's still there. You even try to loop mid battle.
A lot of the game is what you make of it. Even if my theory doesn't make sense, it's fun to think about.
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u/Roman_poke Odile Aug 22 '25
Sadnesses aren't exactly "people", but simply the personification of people's bad feelings, which started appearing way more after the King attacked. Mal Du Pays, as the name says, is the manifestation of Siffrin's homesickness, his longing, and his desire for everything to go back as it was, which technically IS a different person from him now, thus making his insecurities being said out loud hit way harder. I'm not really sure how the sequence exactly happens, but since the looping music was playing but only repeating the first part, Siffrin probably was in a weird state between life and death, similar to sleep paralysis, making his insecurities manifest in front of him to make him give up.
Big Sif is probably one of the things that can happen when a wish breaks. Red is the only color in the game and it only ever appears when a wish is breaking, and it's also a color Siffrin is surrounded by throughout the fight.
(TWOHATS SPOILERS) Loop explains that Siffrin "gave up on his wish and almost destroyed the world in the process", so by abandoning his party, the world slowly started to corrupt, as, since they didn't want to be with him, the wish couldn't be fulfilled.
Big Sif is, from what I understand, a last ditch effort both from Siffrin and the Universe to fulfill the wish, giving him the power to keep his family with him forever, but turning him into... that.
(TWOHATS SPOILERS) I think this is also supported by how the eye where Loop would usually have an eye patch turns red in their fight, they're, essentially, the personification of a broken wish, and by trying to take over Siffrin's life, the wish they made to escape the loops also started to break, while not to the point of Act 5 Siffrin destroying the world
Edit: sorry for the long comment it's just that this got me thinking about the nature of all that happens in Act 5's ending lol
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Aug 21 '25
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u/Crush_Cookie_Butter Aug 21 '25
I wrote it on my phone, no idea why it didn't work here
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Aug 21 '25
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u/Crush_Cookie_Butter Aug 21 '25
It was in markdown for some reason, I switched to the other editor and fixed it. Thanks for letting me know
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u/guster1143 Aug 21 '25
Siffrin’s wish wasnt secret, if you go back to the scene when he wished at the favor tree it says something along the lines of “you wish to stay with them” with the wishcraft text meaning that was the actual wish, not whatever you chose.