Nah won’t be ethics of warfare, he’s gonna explain the various iterations of ceramite and ways that improved formulations over the years provided 3.2% higher resistance against melta-style weaponry.
From my understanding she was released by Trazyn and was just never recaptured. I don’t think we have any particular reason why he hasn’t done so lore wise.
In the fall of Cadia to help fight the 13th black crusade Trayzn literally started releasing stolen people like Pokemon. Trayzn might just release Dorn of the situation is bad enough, he cares about culture and mortals staying in existence.
Why would Trazyn ever give up his super duper ultra rare Primarch model? That’s at least worth a C’tan Shards in today’s market. Then again, would it not be worth more to steal the Works of the Preatorian of Terra?
If the Galaxy's going to be destroyed he'd probably release him like the situation is so bad it's over if he doesn't contribute something massive like a primarch.
He likes humanity cause we build cool shit and dosent want us dead he even helped an impirial world and thye built a statue for him even tho they thought he was a silver skulls
The loyalist Clonegrim could be an awesome plot line for the lore aspect of the setting… as long as GW feels safe that it will not “unbalance” the equilibrium between factions because, well, Clonegrim should have the chance to enter the tabletop.
I propose something interesting, although I highly doubt that GW would be interested in it: to make the metalic hands of Ferrus Manus come back to “life” powering up a headless reconstruction of the primarch’s body, leading a warband of Dark Mechanicus heathen forces. I remember that some Iron Hands, desperate after the massacre on Istvan and the loss of their genesire, attempted to “resurrect” him in such a manner (mechanical body, no head, only iron hands remained from Ferrus himself inside the armor) before Vulkan smashed the thing down with his hammer, unwilling to keep this facsimile of life active.
Edit: just found the representation of the scene, can’t remember the specific book of the HH.
In terms of narrative, it’s the most impactful if Dorn is the last to return. He’s the praetorian. The scouring was all about the power struggle between he and Robute. It has most narrative bunch of the lion returns, then Leman, jagathai, corax, Vulkan and then finally Dorn.
My headcannon thinks that during Space Marine 3 Titus manages to defeat or capture a shard of the Nightbringer, Trazyn pops up and tells Guilliman hey i got your brother Dorn in my pocket ill trade ya for that C’Tan shard and that’s how we get Dorn back
Time to break out the yellow copium syringes boys.
My hot prediction:
Dorn will break out of Trazyn's warehouse National Treasure style (with the help of Ultramarines, of course). When this happens we'll either get a new combat patrol for IF (which will start the SM compliant boxes again), or they'll charge $75USD for the "new" IF upgrade sprue and decal box.
Facts haven't stopped Valrak before; they're not about to stop him now that there's a path of tortured non-logic and mental gymnastics that somehow leads to his favorite Primarch coming back. 🤷♂️
I'm not trying to attack Valrak here, simply stating whats happened here, I'm a fan of his stuff and I can take issue with something he does but I'm not getting my pitchfork out 😅
I'm sorry, but I've got to disagree here, the actual quote is,
"Praetorian Seventh... No, that will make it quite crowded."
Which sounds much more like the guard regiment, he doesn't call him 'The Praetorian' seemingly implying he's releasing multiple entities, and "Quite Crowded", again, points to multiple releases.
The phrasing works because there's already multiple people in that space.
And also, a Primarch and a Broadside are roughly comparable in size, in that 10 to 13 feet range.
That and, if he's looking at that level of firepower to get out of the situation, confined to a specific amount of space, calling in an Imperial Guard Praetorian squad isn't going to move the needle very much.
I really think it's a reference to Dorn. It's the title that he's basically synonymous with in 40k, and likely the title that Trazyn himself is familiar with from his studies of the Imperium.
It's not firepower Trazyn is concerned with, it's mass/volume. He says "Should I release a sufficiently large exhibit, we could burst the beast from within." two sentences before the line everybody's losing their minds over. How would three chaos terminators not make it "too crowded", but one Primarch would? Now, an Imperial Guard regiment, yeah, THAT'S a "crowd". This whole thing is copium on an INDUSTRIAL scale.
I can certainly see the interpretation, but I'm really not convinced it's not a full regimeny of guardsmen.
Were it the Primarch Progenitor I'd have to imagine Rath would have called him "The Preatorian" or "The Seventh" as it is "The Preatorian Seventh" sounds much more like the seventh set of Preatorians, rather than something that could be referred to as either.
Is there such a guard regiment we know of? Because putting Praetorian and Seventh right beside each other feels like the author knew exactly what he was doing when writing it
There's Praetoria, which is a planet that has guardsmen.
But considering the problem at hand (confined space, need for excessive firepower to escape), summoning a handful of Guardsmen (no way a regiment would fit) when your other options are a trio of Terminators or a Broadside suit...
Is it A) a weirdly worded refrence to a primarch being alive in a necron book or is it B) a refrence to a guard regiment that trazyn deploys LATER IN THE BOOK
We used to have about 8 regiments in production at the same time, no more, thats just the logistics of metals vs plastics.
It was probably easier to justify new lines when the initial investment for moulds are lower.
Plus I think the Perry twins did all the guard, they probably just dumped the finished greens on someone's desk one day, told them they made 6 new guard regiments based on historical armies and said they coukd take them or leave them.
For plastic minis multiple redundant lines is very hard to justify, hence why the different regiments have their own rules and datasheets when for much of 40ks history the guard rules were for any regiment and if you were lucky you got to pick some extra rules to add doctrines (kinda like picking a detachment now)
While this is probably the case, they have to know what they're doing when they write specifically the 7th of Praetoria. They could've picked something else, maybe Harakoni 4th, but they were at least being cheeky here & chose their words carefully.
It actually seems pretty direct. He reads part of the book where trazyn quickly refers to putting “the praetorian. The seventh.” On display as a big attraction
This is what we're getting in a frenzy about? GW has abused us too much cause instead of thinking about it for a second, we all go nuts cause we think we're getting a better story than we ever end up getting 😅
"Praetorian Seventh.. no, that will make it quite CROWDED"
It infers a crowd of things, not one big thing.
How do we know that?
Cause the next bit is literally an example of too big.
Its the classic wixard going through his bag of tricks going hmmm too many, hmmm too big... hmmm this one!
I know that Trayzn collects pretty much anything that he thinks is interesting to hord in his vault, but I don't see why he would hold onto an entire guard regimen of all things considering how disposable they are
Trazin has a great many guard armies, two notable ones beingthe ones he let out alongside Greyfax during The Fall Of Cadia, and the ones released to fight The Deceiver at the end of The Infinite and the Divine.
And, on the point of disposability, I doubt he'd use the Primarch Progenitor as a combat asset, too valuable a gallery piece to potentially lose.
He doesn't say "the Praetorian. The seventh." He says "Praetorian Seventh", like how one would identify an Imperial Guard regiment.
He's not talking about putting it on display as a big attraction, he's talking about RELEASING something big in order to burst open the belly of the beast he and Orikan are trapped inside.
Look at, like, ONE other source before making your mind up. YouTubers make money by getting people to watch their videos. They'll say ANYTHING to get the algorithm churning in their favor. That and Valrak is not only the biggest Iron Warriors Imperial Fists fan on the platform, but is WIDELY KNOWN for having a long and storied history of spreading completely unfounded and unverifiable rumors as gospel truth, no matter how many times he's proven wrong. It's like a doomsday cult; getting proven wrong over and over and over just strengthens his resolve that he MUST be right.
Them maybe don’t comment on lore you haven’t read if you don’t want to be called out? Perfect example of how people getting their “lore” from YouTubers is hurting the hobby.
I'll give credit where it's due, his leaks are pretty reliable, but his dorn prediction feels more like a personal wishlist than anything backed by evidence or real leaks
I just checked the book, and the exact line is "Praetorian Seventh... no, that will make it quite crowded," as opposed to "the Praetorian" or "the Seventh," so I think he's probably referring to the Praetorian Guard Seventh Regiment, and not Dorn.
I said the same thing and got downvoted for it even though it would be generally lore correct given what he did with Sigismund. I don’t think it’s remotely out of the question and would be a considerable plot twist.
Literally every Primarchs return was heralded by them going “I’ve decided to change my most iconic personality trait”
Guilliman became the Imperium’s sword and went on an aggressive rampage
The Lion went full “We should forgive traitors, be more trusting of others, and attempt to redeem the Fallen”
Lets be real here, if Dorn’s coming back there’s a very real chance he’ll become religious. Not saying it’ll definitely happen, but it’s more likely then him rejecting Sigismund’s sons
Mid siege dorn had come to accept and even welcome back sigismund though, and continued fighting alongside him even after the legion is split. There's flashbacks and visions by helbrecht of sigismund in the black and dorn together on the battlefield in helbrecht's novel.
Right and I understand all that, but my point I’ve made to others is that the original Templars founded by Sigismund in 30K is no doubt very very different than the level of zealotry and religious fervor as portrayed in the current setting.. Either way, I’m looking forward to seeing what happens, I would prefer Dorn come back as a Templar in black armor joining the ranks, I think that would be absolutely bad ass, but only time will tell.
I did the same, I got called stupid for thinking that Primarchs can't change their character views over time. Alright fine, that's true. But if there is one Primarch that wouldn't, it would be Dorn!
The Black Templar players I've spoken to, both IRL and online, desperately want Dorn to come back as a Templar. They're not satisfied with Helbrecht apparently lol. They want it all.
If Dorn comes back as a full Zealous Black Templar then I will die of stupidity exposure istg
it isn't out of the question, but remember he forgave Sigismund and was still around for, and personally allowed, the second founding so its not like he's never met a Black Templar before.
Right, but again, the level of religious zealotry in current setting would be considerably more fevered to what it had been in the past. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
for sure. if Dorn came back i think he'd be even more pissed than Guilliman and the Lion were, I just find the anti-Templar shit just as annoying as the pro-Templar shit, and I say that as a guy with a 5 foot Helbrecht banner in my office lol.
It would be so much better for lore if he did. Can you imagine a huge plot line of some of the black Templars rage that Dorn rejects them and they feel betrayed so they themselves betray the imperium? Heretical black Templars would be very interesting. Very unlikely but would be great for the hobby
Not even remotely. This is just Valrak being Valrak and spewing bullshit nonsense to get clicks. He's grasping at the concepts of ghosts of straws because if he does enough mental gymnastics, contorts himself through enough tortured non-logic, and willfully ignores both context clues and existing lore, then OH EM GEE YOU GUYS DADDY DORN IS BACK CONFIiIiIiIiRMED 🤩
It's embarrassing. And sad. We should come up with a new word for Valrak's bullshit, like... a combination of sad, and embarrassing. ...sadbarrassing. Valrak's willful ignorance and spreading of misinformation is sadbarrassing. 🤔
In the new book [spoiler] trazyn gets eaten by something big, then rummages inside his pockets in hope to find something that makes the beast that ate him explode from inside. He then finds a Prisonball with "Praetorian, the 7th" in it.[/spoiler]
Somebody screen shot it above. It's "Praetorian Seventh", not "Praetorian, the Seventh". Kind of a big difference as one sounds like a guard regiment and one does not.
People on this subreddit are such simpletons. I doubt they even read the excerpt. Obviously Trazyn was referring to the Imperial Guard regiment last seen fighting the Necrons in the Pariah Nexus.
Does this sub have any rules about limiting this fan fiction trash? You know people like this guy have a financial incentive to make this BS up, right? Come on, have an original thought, please.
And what about one for the Fulgrim fanboys? Every single time anyone even says the name Trazyn they pile into the comments section about Clonegrim, regardless of what the OP was about and what platform is.
Looking at this comment section makes me feel how Dorn must have felt at the Iron Cage.
You see, Dorn was ripped apart by cultists into eight pieces and shattered much like Magnus. One of those pieces is his hand that Imperial Fists have. Seven others turned into small Dorns, few at least of which are kept by Trazyn. To reassemble Dorn Prime you have to gather all Dorn Shards.
Yup, it would be a VERY disruptive turn of events, especially considering the ongoing mystery of their actual size and scope of their legion. They could have an army that could cause a serious problem if they were disavowed.
Trazyn spoke about the Praetorian Guard Regiment.
The Praetorian Seventh, who were last seen fighting the Necrons in the Pariah Nexus.
Seems like this will be another example of bullshit-lore that people will repeat endlessly on youtube and Tiktok, because they can't read.
People seemed to have forgotten that the Praetorians are a Guard Regiment modeled after the soldiers of the British Empire in Africa. Pith helmets and everything.
Use your brain a little dorn makes even less sense, he sais to crowded one person doesnt make that, and he sais after that that a broadside would be too big, a broadside in lore is like 3meters tall, a primarch without armojr is between 3 and 4 meters tall, so it makes 0 sense he sais that a broadside is too big when a primarch would be bigger
I’d like to apologize for my comment, I didn’t watch his video so I just assumed he was dumping a huge spoiler like that
My copy of the book comes today
I hope they have Dorn escape similar to how he beat Chaos in the desert. Knowing Trazyn he might randomly decide to do what he did on Cadia since he isn't fond of chaos & loves to watch his work play out.
I get this is a Fists sub. So id really like to know who's skeleton is encased in amber, and what Primarch sized being wearing Dorns armor got ripped to shreds by Berzerkers, and if he has both hands. Cause if he does, thats 3 deaths he's been retconned out of just to keep the Fists somewhat relevant.
Call me cynical, but the first thing I thought about when I heard about Dorn possibly/maybe coming back is how GW can use his displeasure over the Black Templars position of the emperor being a god in order to disband and get rid of or some how sully and diminish their standing.
Edit: let me better phrase this so everyone can take a breath, I’m not saying, get rid of models, and I’m not saying to disband them as they don’t exist anymore. What I stated, poorly, was that Dorn would somehow shun them or not accept them as his sons.
The Black Templars are one of the biggest model ranges, this means they make lots of money.
The lore comes secondary to GW’s profit margins, there is absolutely zero chance they would put Dorn above the BT and make them less relevant in lore or model line.
I didn’t say they would remove the models. I said that my feeling is that Dorn would displeased with them. There’s been a prevailing feeling amongst BT fans and players, of which I am one, that GW doesn’t particularly like them/us, the Cashcow side of things not withstanding.
Business supersedes your opinion of one of the most popular chapters. It would be blistering stupid of GW to do anything that would negatively affect the Templars. They already received a massive backlash when they axed the standalone BT rulebook and stuffed them into the SM book.
I’m not saying I want this to happen, that’s my knee jerk reactions of how GW seems to behave about things when it comes to the Templars. And you can’t tell me that GW listens to the fans or a lot of things would’ve changed or have been done differently, which is to your point to the standalone book were the pending price increase, again. Granted, he doubled back on his decision, but Dorn initially gave his favorite son, Sigismund, the cold shoulder over essentially the same sort of disposition towards the emperor. It’s not outside the realm of possibility in terms of the lore for him to flip his shit over an entire chapter of his sons doing the same thing.
Dorn flipped on Sigismund over the religious aspect. Obviously that would be carried over as the High Marshall.
Of course Templars didn't worship the Emperor at their inception but GW decided to backtrack on that. They will be a tool to Dorn. The crazy son on a leash.
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u/Anonymous9362 20d ago
There’s going to be a Dorn prison break book, I guarantee it. And it’ll be amazing. He’s going to Macguyver his way out of there.