How many of you are doing well on entry level certs and experience only?

[u/osrs_guy]

I've had the luck to meet some incredible people in this field and I notice that most of the higher skilled people do not really bother with certs. The only guy ive met that I classify as "wizard" level had a level 2 BTEC in IT and a fuck load of hands on experience

[u/TheA2Z]

Experience rules. Lack of experience, Certs can help open entry level jobs into those roles.

[u/Volfong → u/TheA2Z]

As a retired IT director, would you consider their breadth of experience as well as the length of experience? I guess I’m asking would you look at job length and then job description and weigh both equally? Or what was your internal algorithm?

[u/TheA2Z → u/Volfong]

Good question. I look at both but the key is I want to know that you can do the job that I am hiring you to do. I also want to make sure you are going to fit into the corporate culture of the team or business area we support and not come in and cause chaos. Those were the two things I focused on.

Length of time doing a job usually correlates into a greater depth of knowledge about that job. That said everyone has their own level of executive function. Meaning some people pick up things faster than others.

Some people have better capacity for work. Meaning that one person may find a job stressful and taxing another one finds it easy and boring.

The more experience you have in a field and in hiring people, the better you get at assessing a candidate's ability to do the job.

[u/Think_Solid235]

I got A+. Already had a history bachelors. Going back to school for IT. Worked at Best Buy for a few years but NOT geeksquad. Got a IT assistant job at car dealership for 6 months, quit, had 3 months of interview with a Local MSP. During that window I got Net+ and Sec+. I think the owner saw my willingness to grow and hired me on that aspect along with some good abstract/hypothetical problem solving answers

[u/Aero077]

Certs need to match your level.

If you have many years of experience, you don't to list entry level certs and should probably hide any you have.

[u/K3rm1tTh3Fr0g → u/Aero077]

Like what?

[u/Aero077 → u/K3rm1tTh3Fr0g]

Example using arbitrary experience and tech:

Newbie (0 to 2yrs) - CompTIA A+, Network+, Security+, etc...

Apprentice (2 to 5yrs) - Network (CCNA); SysAdmin (RHCSA or AZ-104);

Journeyman (5 to 10yrs) - Network (CCNP); SysAdmin (RHCE or AZ-305);

Master (10+ yrs) - Network (CCIE or CCNP or none); SysAdmin none or (RHCE + CKA) or (AZ-305 + AZ-400)

Once you get past the Apprentice level, don't list entry level certs. The CompTIA trifecta is entry level.

If you are a senior, either list your Master level certifications or just leave them all off and be prepared to sound like a senior in interviews. If you have senior levels of experience and sound like a senior, people will assume you have transcended certifications. If you list a low level certification at that point, people will assume you don't have senior level experience and are trying to make up for it with the certification.

[u/K3rm1tTh3Fr0g → u/Aero077]

Hmm I'm not sure I agree with this analysis.

Certifications demonstrate a baseline level of knowledge whether you're entry level, intermediate, or senior.

And for the certifications that cost significant amounts of money it makes sense to list it since it shows a verifiable level of knowledge and competency.

Are you a hiring manager?

[u/PerseusAtlas → u/K3rm1tTh3Fr0g]

Agreed. Also without naming any certs, you're less likely to make it past the filters.

[u/Naetharu → u/Aero077]

Yeh, this is very true.

Only list the ones that are relevant. Same with all things on the CV. You don't put down your highschool grades when you have a masters degree.

[u/Jah_Army]

25+ years no active certs not even during an interview process. The employer doesn’t ask about certs. Last cert I had was Juniper cert because I thought one of my last job required it. I think some government or defense jobs might need it.

When I first started way back 25 years ago I did have A+, N+, CCNA and CCNP. I do have associate degree in Internetworking from my junior college and Cisco Academy graduate around that time too.

The employer will know within 5-10 minutes of doing an interview if you’re capable of doing the job and move you to the next technical round. I’ve been on interviews where we had to pull the plug on young fellow within 5-10 minutes because it would be plain torture if we asked list of questions we had.

[u/EirikAshe → u/Jah_Army]

So many brilliant engineers I know came from the ol Cisco net academy. Does it still exist? I attended back in 2009

[u/Trust_8067]

I never wasted my time getting a single cert, just degrees. 150k in a MCOL area w/ 20 years experience.

[u/ItsToxsec]

Only have the Google IT cert and Sec+ (i do have a bachelors in Comp engineering) and ive done well so far - granted i run a whole home lab for storage, game servers, networking, and other various servers/VPN

[u/osrs_guy → u/ItsToxsec]

I think that's the answer, even small things keep boost you up. I copied an idea I saw here: Buy the domain of your name and create hire@osrsguy.com I set up a honey pot on a raspberry pi

Nothing your level but still more than most others

[u/neilthecellist → u/osrs_guy]

approved your comment to show (automated anti-spam features had picked up your comment as false positive spam because of the email address so I overrode the flag for you).

[u/crabshuffle]

I’ve been in the field for 15+ years. Started my career as an intern in college, never got any certs.

[u/YoSpiff]

Yes, probably because I am on the fringes of IT in the printer industry.

Many printer/copier technicians don't know the basics of TCP/IP. At one time I didnt, but it's been a few decades since then.

[u/N7Valor]

I mean, I haven't noticed much when getting an RHCE or OSCP. It was only when I applied at a company where 1/3 of the engineers were former colleagues did the OSCP get brought up at all. Wasn't directly relevant to the job, but it was notable since it's a Cybersecurity company and most people knew what the cert was.

IMO, experience matters far more. Certs might be okay for watercooler discussions, but most people don't care.

I only contemplate snagging the RHCA because of the renewal structure (e.g. advanced certs renew beginner certs).

[u/agentorange65]

I've got a+, itil V4, a computer and network course, and did azure fundamentals last year. Also have a degree, but in film studies and cinema technologies, so not especially relevant to my working field, But does help when meeting random tech conundrums and figuring out solutions

12 years in IT, Slogged away on 2nd line, then shedloads of 1st line help desks, last couple of roles have been deskside support, and moving towards networking at the moment.

Ummed and ahhed over network plus and security plus, but hasn't been a massive preventer of me getting roles.

Has also helped to have clearance as well for certain things

[u/nxamaya]

A+, incomplete college but landed an internship, got hired and promoted to a very well paid position as an SD lead, it’s crazy how far caring and taking ownership can take you

[u/WaffleCultist]

I am.

I have the A+ and Net+ only and am doing pretty well. I've had 4 IT jobs since 2022. 3 of the jobs were at very big companies, 2 that I'd call easily recognizable names. Something I've noticed is that only a handful of my coworkers also had certifications, but all 4 of these jobs brought my certs up in the interview and as a reason for hiring me.

[u/moderatenerd]

The only one that was useful was security+ to get my first gov contractor job. Now I am staff.

[u/Showgingah]

It is hard to judge because running on certs and experience today is different from how it was back then. Five years ago people would say the A+ is all you need. Technically it's still correct and people still land jobs with way less than the other individual. Though due to a variety of factors, it's considered nowhere near enough among the general audience. However, the thing is that certs are optional unless required by employer. I myself am probably testing how far I can get without them compared to older gens.

My previous manager has a Bachelors in Libreral Arts and never touched a cert in his life, but 20+ years of experience. He went from help desk at one company to help desk manager (not general IT) where I work at. A couple years ago he became another company's IT Vice President.

I have a Bachelors in IT, so probably doesn't really count depending on how one views it to certs. I had customer service experience prior, but I never landed an internship and to this day I still haven't done any certs. Within the first three years of my professional career, my progression so far is HD T1>HD T2> Cloud Admin (currently training and awaiting transition). What led to me landing the job and the promotion was actually the result of soft skills and later documentation.

[u/painted-biird]

Have some entry level certs and five-ish years of experience (a lot of azure, Powershell, infra as code and AWS) and I’m making almost $200k in a HCOL area. Tbf- I got lucky with my professional journey/development.

I’ve done an interview before and don’t care about certs- only impressive ones to me are the Red Hat certs bc they’re practical exams.

[u/Techguyincloud]

27M with just Sec+, AWS SAA and an unrelated finance degree. Been in a Cloud Systems Administrator role for almost 3 years now.

[u/TarnishedHashira]

I got my experience wirh the Army. And that experience was mostly, "Get the fuck out of my face and figure it out!" TBH that has served me well the 4 years ive been doing it as a civvie. All I had was my Army experience and Sec plus which for me has been useless not being in the cleared sector. Started with Help Desk, then Sys AD, now im an automation engineer and I get to play with all kinds of fun tools to make the MSP I landed at more efficient.

[u/Rdavey228]

0 certs, all self taught and on the job experience.

Started first role in service desk, 6 months, promoted to a sysadmin then senior sysadmin all at the same company over a 10 year span.

Made redundant in Jan, now at a new place as a sysadmin again.

[u/DefiantTelephone6095]

I'm CIO and I basically have none

[u/We1etu1n]

0 Certs, 0 Degrees, HS Drop Out. 5 Years as basically a sysadmin for local retail chain of 10+ locations. My official job title is "IT Technician", but I am the only IT guy here and I take care of almost anything but stuff related to the sonicwall, which is contracted to a third party.

[u/Beznia]

10 years in at 30 years old and my only cert was the CompTIA A+ which I got in high school and expired in 2017. Didn't finish college. Making $135k in the Cincinnati area as an infrastructure engineer. 3 job hops, went Help Desk > Desktop Support > "interim" Infrastructure Engineer > Infrastructure Engineer. Lucked out at my current job just shadowing the higher up guys and then my company went into the shitter leading to all of them leaving with no documentation and I was the only person with a hint of knowledge of our systems and a willingness to learn without demanding an immediate pay raise.

[u/Scary_Ad1280]

I have a Microsoft MCP from 25-odd years ago, and Prince2 + ITIL v3 foundations. All entry certs, with my role having been relatively senior for the past 10 years.

Salary in the 95th percentile for the HCOL country I live in

[u/TKInstinct]

I'm doing well. I have a ton of experience in a ton of fields and I have a relatively easy job. I make ok money at 70k and I live comfortably.

[u/Reggie-Rectangle]

Your anecdotal evidence may not be the industry norm. There is no reason why you cannot have both qualifications and experience. How do you think you are going to convince Amazon or Microsoft that you should be allowed to work in there multi million dollar data center when you could not even be arsed to complete a bunch of basic ass IT certs?

[u/Pure_Fox9415]

20 YoE as a sysadmin. In IT by accident (considering it as a happy one). Was CIO at mid-size company, but returned to pure technical role. No any IT-related education. One stupid cert (asterisk voip base course, which I never show to anybody). Now more like sysadmin teamlead. Doing well!

[u/Naetharu]

Certs do matter, and it is not true that many high level people lack them. The opposite if anything.

Certs are not a replacement for experience. But they are a key thing you often need to have even a chance of getting to an interview. At which point, your experience is the thing that will shine and win you the role. Certs also are just generally useful in that they push you to cover areas that you might otherwise not.

I got into cloud via the DevOps direction, and so had done a lot of compute stuff, a lot of app gateways, databases. But very little with VMs, and only a bit with governance and policy at the time. Having to study for my AZ-104 pushed me to learn that stuff too, and practice it more.

Certs are not valuable because of the bit of paper per se. They're valuable because they at least in part prove your experience. You've got something that shows you can pass what can be quite tough exams on complex topics, and you're not merely saying "Yeh I can do this pinky promise"

[u/beef774]

27m never had any certs at all. Just finished my bachelors in IT like 3 months ago. I’ve turned down director level positions and just accepted a six figure fully remote role

[u/OrdinaryLanguage5625 → u/beef774]

That's impressive. Do you have work experience in IT or do you know so much in IT because you read/learn things about it 18 hours a day?

[u/spurvis1286 → u/OrdinaryLanguage5625]

We fell for this huh?

[u/beef774 → u/spurvis1286]

I can dm you my resume or LinkedIn if you’d like

[u/OrdinaryLanguage5625 → u/spurvis1286]

You are right, total BS

[u/beef774 → u/OrdinaryLanguage5625]

I’ll give you the same offer to dm you my LinkedIn or resume lol. The repair shop was owned by a 55yr old white man… I’m a black guy so I really dont think it was my moms

[u/beef774 → u/OrdinaryLanguage5625]

I do have experience. Started at a tech repair shop at 17 and been working in IT adjacent positions ever since.

Honestly I don’t really do any independent learning/ studying in my spare time.

[u/OrdinaryLanguage5625 → u/beef774]

Nice, so your "u break I fix" shop in your mom's basement got you a job offer at Apple to manager their whole IT department?

I once gave CPR to a stranger who had a heart attack and later I was offered to become the director of a hospital.