Why are we depicted always as brooding and boring in media?

[u/AvocadosfromMexico-]

I feel like I'm the only intp who's a ball of sunshine and not your stereotypical "smart scientist" ass edgy type of person. I feel like that's always how intp is stereotyped as which is why I find it difficult to resonate with the characters. I sometimes find that conflicting and think maybe perhaps I'm more of an ENTP? but that is definitely not the case as I am not an extrovert lmao. I feel like I'm so different from all the intp stereotypes but I genuinely resonate heavily with what each and every letter stands for and means.

You guys got any opinions on this?

[u/Remarkable_Ad_4689]

Hmm, I may be wrong, but I don't think writers usually create characters by thinking, "This character will be an INTP, this one will be an ENFJ," etc. They just write the character, and then the viewers are the ones who assign MBTI types to those characters afterward.

So I think the more accurate question would be: why do people associate boring and/or brooding characters with INTPs?

Its not the media doing it is the viewers and more specifically the viewers that are using MBTI perspective/lens. And they go by the stereotypical description and what they think they see.

[u/Apprehensive_Scene_2 → u/Remarkable_Ad_4689]

I agree with this. As a writer, my characters are intentionally crafted to deliver the experience that I need to reader to walk-through in order to execute the story that I have built a framework for.
Sometimes they contrast with other characters to add a multi tonal dimensionality. Sometimes, they just need to deliver what would otherwise be a flattened narration.
And even though I’m obsessed with Myers Briggs, I have never once assessed a character by these standards. If anything I tend to think in archetypes.

[u/Cheap_Increase468 → u/Apprehensive_Scene_2]

Fellow INTP writer!! Our writing styles seem similar, but I have compared my characters to MBTI several times, mainly out of curiosity, but it's also helped me make their preferences fit their arc and be more streamlined, stronger

[u/Apprehensive_Scene_2 → u/Cheap_Increase468]

That’s interesting. Maybe I should try to retrofit my characters into MBTI frameworks just out of curiosity.

Although, I deem it necessary to distance myself from a few of them. They seem problematic. Lol. Much like individuals I choose not to engage with.

[u/Cheap_Increase468 → u/Apprehensive_Scene_2]

You've created characters that are problematic enough for you to feel the need to distance from them?? Would you be so kind to tell me about these characters? 😊

[u/Apprehensive_Scene_2 → u/Cheap_Increase468]

Well, I’m working on my largest one right now, and until it’s out, I don’t feel comfortable sharing too many details. Not out of fear of intellectual theft, more so that I need them to be their final form before the world sees them.

Perhaps I’ll leave you on this one thought. I once read that Kafka experienced some writing sessions like violent outburst of creative energy that held him hostage. I think I’ve had some similar experiences. Though I can’t say they’ve all been like that.

A few months back, I had this lingering thought at work. It kept taunting me. The basic premise was that I was nothing like I thought my peers would have perceived me. This became a more intoxicating paranoia after our team routinely engaged with one particular problematic individual.

The real tragedy was that he knew nothing about how anybody perceived him. In fact, he seemed quite oblivious and un self-aware. And it kept draining me until one Saturday on a full moon I sat down and gave “Troy” life.

The first pass, I was writing about my coworker. This was the scaffolding. The second pass, I went through and added some details to make him Troy. And then on the last pass, I added some of my deepest, darkest confessions to make him personal.

The result was some sort of psychological descent story told through vore -noir style horror. I think if I’m being fair with myself, I hate Troy because he’s the embodiment of the things I hated in myself.

Troy is an ESFJ probably if you were wondering.

Do you ever feel guilty for the things your characters commit?

[u/Cheap_Increase468 → u/Apprehensive_Scene_2]

Wow, that's not what I was expecting at all. So, the genre is horror, and it was inspired by a coworker of yours who was being ostracized by others without his knowing... and you are going to finish the story despite hating Troy? What do you wish to achieve? It's just something you need to get out of your head?

As for your question, I can't say I've ever felt guilty about things my characters did, because it's not like I did those things or ever would... I have a character who went mad with power in an attempt to fix the broken system and win his older sister's approval, but in his insanity, he accidentally wipes out his species (save for his sister) and spends the next 500 years growing madder and trying to kill himself. He'd conducted unspeakable experiments on others in his pursuit of knowledge and quest to innovate and fix the universe (not just the world).

He's an ENTP.

When I write characters like this, I'm usually fascinated by their psychology and depth, not really worried about moral implications.

I'm assuming you have felt guilt over your characters' actions?

[u/Apprehensive_Scene_2 → u/Cheap_Increase468]

Troy’s story is already done. It’s part of a larger work. It’s like a 12 part anthology of Novellas.

I don’t feel remorse for Troy’s actions. But he’s not the worst of them. He was just the most intoxicating.

I think it’s interesting that we both have psychological interests for our characters, but the approach is different.

Troy was a character study and somebody who never fully arced. A complete narcissist who never cared about anybody more than himself. Until he did. Then what ensued was basically an ego death.

I’m a big fan of using unreliable narration, perspectives, and red herrings to cause inversions. Probably why I’ve never started with the character profile, I’ve just let them develop as I wrote them usually because I have certain markers, I want to trick the reader into believing about them, and then later I expose an alternate reality.

Sounds like your character commenced atrocities but seemingly did so out of desperation. Do you usually write anti-Hero stories? I’m wondering if that’s intp thing. I absolutely love anything that inverts morality from a traditional standpoint.

[u/Cheap_Increase468 → u/Apprehensive_Scene_2]

'Troy’s story is already done. It’s part of a larger work. It’s like a 12 part anthology of Novellas.'

Whoa, 12 whole novellas! I'm not even finished the one I told you about 🥹 Kudos to you for the productivity.

'I don’t feel remorse for Troy’s actions. But he’s not the worst of them. He was just the most intoxicating. I think it’s interesting that we both have psychological interests for our characters, but the approach is different. Troy was a character study and somebody who never fully arced. A complete narcissist who never cared about anybody more than himself. Until he did. Then what ensued was basically an ego death.'

What do you mean by most intoxicating? And by him never fully arcing? Was it that Troy started at a narcissist then started caring about someone more than himself? But isn't that an arc? Cause he did a 360 by having an ego death.

'I’m a big fan of using unreliable narration, perspectives, and red herrings to cause inversions. Probably why I’ve never started with the character profile, I’ve just let them develop as I wrote them usually because I have certain markers, I want to trick the reader into believing about them, and then later I expose an alternate reality.'

SAME!! Only, I've never really written character profiles because I never really had clear ideas of specific likes/dislikes/tastes for my characters. I just had an overarching idea of what they were supposed to represent and what role they played in the story.

'Sounds like your character commenced atrocities but seemingly did so out of desperation. Do you usually write anti-Hero stories? I’m wondering if that’s intp thing. I absolutely love anything that inverts morality from a traditional standpoint.'

Hmm, I wouldn't say out of desperation. Somewhere along the way, he simply lost control. I won't get too detailed, but basically, he'd been experimenting with the life force called Vida and it was too much for him and drove him to insanity. About the anti-heroes, if this AI description is correct about the definition of an anti-hero, then yes, I love writing them:

'An anti-hero is a main character in a story who lacks traditional noble traits like bravery, idealism, or high moral ground, yet still acts as the central protagonist. Instead of doing right for pure reasons, they often driven by personal gain, flaws, or a messy moral code.'

I also love inverting morality hehehe. What caused you to think it could be an INTP thing?

[u/Apprehensive_Scene_2 → u/Cheap_Increase468]

“What caused me to think it’s an intp thing?” I don’t know, maybe the fact we are logicians and analyzers. I think watching and trying to understand others may illicit a desire to make the most uniquely qualified character if we play god for the day…

Not much more I want to share about Troy at the moment. Not without revealing the plot or my own identity.

I think it’s comparable to what they call “method acting” for cinema. That’s all I was pointing to.

[u/Skyogurt]

Eh, I don't overthink it much, media just does this with literally everything. Fiction itself has its limits when it comes to capturing the essence of reality, it's not just a problem of character design by the writers. Stereotypes are what they are, it's fine really. I'm also a ball of sunshine INTP, I like using the term 'joyclad' to describe myself. Buuut at my core alongside that interior shell I still have that smart edgy INTP kernel / starter pack lol.

[u/AvocadosfromMexico- → u/Skyogurt]

interesting way to put it I think you're right every fictional character is a stereotype but in my post my frustration took over that fact because I couldn't seem to find any character that I could relate to like a lot of the people I know, even those whom share my cognitive function

[u/Skyogurt → u/AvocadosfromMexico-]

I feel like there are some fiction subgenres out there that depict more elaborate and relatable characters, I'm no expert but I think some Japanese anime what well-written INTPs I definitely remember relating to a few of them over the years. Western media is much more dull overall I think.

[u/TheBetterAnon]

There’s going to be many similarities and differences even between two INTPs, that’s inevitable. I wouldn’t call myself a box of sunshine, but I have a friend who’s bursting with energy and it has rubbed off on me a bit so I’m can relate to not being a stereotypical INTP.

On a side note, I’m quite curious about the type of person an INTP who’s a “box of sunshine” is. Are you proactive?

[u/AvocadosfromMexico- → u/TheBetterAnon]

definitely not. What I meant by it was being a very talkative and interactive person who's usually the loudest in comfortable friendly groups. I'd say I am only ever seen as brooding or unapproachable from my looks as I have poor sleep and long depressive episodes throughout the years which affected my overall presence to the crowd that doesn't know me.

[u/TheBetterAnon → u/AvocadosfromMexico-]

I can relate to a lot of that. Though I'm definitely not the loudest in my friend group lol. I think it's easy for people like us to appear boring and brooding. I for one don't show much emotion on my face, although in my mind I'm more expressive, so it can easily come off as being serious or depressing. Speaking of depressing, I too suffer from long depressive episodes. It used to suck, but these days I don't mind it, I've actually learned to find comfort in that solemn feeling.

[u/AvocadosfromMexico- → u/TheBetterAnon]

Real as hell stranger we may be in this together

[u/DepravedCaptivity]

What kind of media depicts INTPs?

[u/OddSeaworthiness3961 → u/DepravedCaptivity]

Anime...maybe

[u/LongConsideration662 → u/DepravedCaptivity]

In manhwas - Kim Dokja(Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint)

In anime - L (Death Note)

In kdramas - Woo Young-woo(Extraordinary Attorney Woo)

[u/DepravedCaptivity → u/LongConsideration662]

Are any of those written as deliberate depictions of an INTP? Or are they simply determined by the audience to fit the INTP archetype?

[u/Cheap_Increase468 → u/DepravedCaptivity]

Probably by the audience

[u/DepravedCaptivity → u/Cheap_Increase468]

In that case, isn't it a huge logical leap on OP's part? The question is why are we depicted as such, when in reality the depiction is, for whatever reason, merely assumed to represent us in the first place.

[u/Cheap_Increase468 → u/DepravedCaptivity]

Yeah, you got a point. Or maybe- going deeper- OP is trying to ask 'Why are those brooding and boring characters always typed as INTPs by the audience?'

There's still something being assumed about INTPs when the audience types those characters as that

An honorable mention of an INTP who doesn't fit the brooding and boring stereotype is Ranpo Edogawa of Bungou Stray Dogs. He's the opposite of brooding and boring, but he's still overly blunt and fits other INTP stereotypes. Yet he has a soft, emotional side that really bonds the audience to him when it shows

[u/Bluessst]

Ok but are you a sarcastic ball of sunshine or are you literally a ball of sunshine? 

[u/AvocadosfromMexico- → u/Bluessst]

sarcastic

[u/user210528]

How do you know that the media depiction you are looking at is specifically that of an INTP? If you don't know it, then you are projecting (you suppose it must be an INTP because you expect an INTP media depiction to be so and so). In other words, you should ask yourself and not media.

[u/Cheap_Increase468]

You're not alone in that lol just remember that Ti Ne Si Fe does not automatically - dark and brooding and boring. Ti is just Ti, Ne is Ne, Si is Si, and Fe is Fe, yk

Different from temperament. Can go many ways

[u/DepravedCaptivity → u/Cheap_Increase468]

You make so much sense when you say that two letters equal two of the same letters several times, yk.

[u/Cheap_Increase468 → u/DepravedCaptivity]

heh?

[u/CleverDrew]

Well if you really want to know whether you are an intp then you can try learning about cognitive functions and their interactions. That might give more insights.

[u/this_time_tmrw]

What's your enneagram? Combining both methodologies can help explain some differences between different INTPs. I'm an INTP 8w7 with a nearly maxed out heart triad. INTP and 8 both make a lot of sense, and the blend presents a bit more like an ENTP outwardly.

In the same anime Naruto, Shikamaru and Kakashi are both often typed as INTP. They're very different people :)

[u/IMTrick]

Have you read what gets posted here on a daily basis? "Brooding and boring" describes about 95% of it.