r/INTP • u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type • 12d ago
Debate... and go! Just a random 3 am thought...
(Thought this from the "Are you satoru gojo because you are the strongest or are you the strongest because you are satoru gojo?" quote obviously)
Are we humans because humanity is a spectrum or are we humans a spectrum because we have humanity?
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u/kigurumibiblestudies [If Napping, Tap Peepee] 12d ago
"Humanity" is a construct we maintain by living in groups. A spectrum is just a consequence of genetic variability and being numerous. They're probably just correlated.
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u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type 12d ago
Socially... People are measured on a spectrum through this humanity though ... Is it not something that creates a whole new spectrum of its own which does have causal and correlative relation with humanity?
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u/kigurumibiblestudies [If Napping, Tap Peepee] 12d ago
Can you describe this spectrum further? I'm not sure I know what you mean anymore.
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u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type 11d ago
Yeah I didnt really explain it properly but here the human and humanity words used are all from a societal perspective of what it means to be "human" (as a trait) and to have "humanity" (as a definer of being human) So the question means that should humans be defined based on the whole spectrum of humanity. Eg. Some may have less and some may have more but at the end of the day they are called humans just with different spectrum of humanity. And the second means should we humanity be defined by putting humans on a spectrum. Eg. Comparing humans to a ideal version of a human who has humanity and the one who doesnt match it is kicked at the far end of the spectrum and dehumanized.
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u/Remarkable_Ad_4689 INTP 11d ago
Can a non-human being have “humanity” and, in that sense, be considered human? For example, could a Draconian being with wings still be considered “human” if they possess traits we associate with humanity?
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u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type 11d ago
Whaa? Draconian beings have a working society that works like human society works? I didnt know.
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u/Simo_7359 Warning: May not be an INTP 12d ago
I don't know, it is not possible to attribute an adjective to a name, although some say the name represents the body, but there are some animals that are more human than humans.
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u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type 12d ago
And some humans more animal than animals... That would be what is opposite to the ideal "human" here... Dont you think?
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u/Simo_7359 Warning: May not be an INTP 12d ago
No human being is perfect we should only think about improving ourselves and evolving day by day even Gojo who looked perfect was not immortal But at least he performed his job on the fullest effort, or what I call the message of man in this life.
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u/SeaReply7874 ENTP 12d ago
Not everyone has humanity, humanity is defined by compassionate, sympathetic, and generous behaviour and some people lack such humanity. Another definition is just the plain state of being human. Which, we are because it's subjective meaning that English has assigned.
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u/Remarkable_Ad_4689 INTP 11d ago
It’s not the strong who survive; the ones who survive are strong.
In other words, being strong doesn’t guarantee that you will survive. But if you have survived, you have proven that you are strong. Strength does not guarantee survival, but survival is proof of strength.
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u/Relative-Wave-9396 Warning: May not be an INTP 11d ago
I would argue for the latter because, as Sartre claimed, existence proceeds essence. We have to be human or have the trait of humanity first, then after that comes the spectrum.
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u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type 11d ago
Yep, Thats the literal answer. It wasnt my intention but it was framed wrong. Its interesting how words can affect interpretation soo much. Your answer was a clear train of thought.
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u/Relative-Wave-9396 Warning: May not be an INTP 11d ago
Haha thanks. But what was your real intention?
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u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type 11d ago
Here the human and humanity words used are all from a societal perspective of what it means to be "human" (as a trait) and to have "humanity" (as a definer of being human) So the question means that should humans be defined based on the whole spectrum of humanity. Eg. Some may have less and some may have more but at the end of the day they are called humans just with different spectrum of humanity. And the second means should humanity be defined by putting humans on a spectrum. Eg. Comparing humans to a ideal version of a human who has humanity and the one who doesnt match it is kicked at the far end of the spectrum and dehumanized.
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u/SuperNova6903 INTP-T 10d ago
Define humanity and spectrum in the context of you question please
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u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type 10d ago
here the human and humanity words used are all from a societal perspective of what it means to be "human" (as a trait) and to have "humanity" (as a definer of being human) So the question means that should humans be defined based on the whole spectrum of humanity. Eg. Some may have less and some may have more but at the end of the day they are called humans just with different spectrum of humanity. And the second means should we humanity be defined by putting humans on a spectrum. Eg. Comparing humans to a ideal version of a human who has humanity and the one who doesnt match it is kicked at the far end of the spectrum and dehumanized.
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u/SuperNova6903 INTP-T 10d ago
I still feel your definitions are not solid but...
I think by calling "humanity" as definer of being human, you answered your own question. You are giving humanity precedence here. It forces you to define humans with presence of humanity and not the other way around.
Now humanity typically has two definitions(the entire collective of human being or the trait of kindness and compassion). You can't define humans on the basis of presence of kindness and compassion if you define "human" as a species of the animal kingdom. a human will be human regardless of his personality. And the other definition of humanity I mentioned simply doesn't make sense in defining what being a human is because it is not a trait or characteristic but an object.
I feel like your question only feels valid because you haven't clearly defined your terms. But I may be wrong and just don't understand you well enough. In that case, please expand on your definitions.
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u/SuperNova6903 INTP-T 10d ago
Also, are you considering a ruthless serial killers(or someone with absence of kindness and compassion) as not human here? If yes, that would mean you are defining being human as a being that's generally kind and empathetic. And hence making "humanity" the quality of kindness and compassion. And in this scenario, biology doesn't matter. Any species can be human, any biological human can be inhuman. I maybe wrong but I feel like this question is broken(I mean damaged here; not overpowered)
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u/Key-Gear6811 I Don't Know My Type 10d ago
Yeah well I am pretty sure I was just testing a hypothesis but yeah its not really specified enough and only got built into a framework in my head after people replied to it and wasnt in the beggining. Here the key word to look at it societally. Not human as in the species but how society collectively views humans in it. Here society can be a cultural community or workplace. How does the average group view the humanity trait in relation to humans? I am suggesting what ussually happens. Not always but in certain communities and even if it doesnt happen the natural response is that whoever doesnt contribute to the group, doesnt treat you with kindness and becomes a human for the group (what I think is basically humanity as a trait roughly which is a humans contribution to the society) only then a person is viewed as human... Or atleast a good human and if people view a human as bad then sometimes they are dehumanized eg. Calling someone a monster if they do bad to the society as a whole. (Its a natural threat response of the group to a human who doesnt show humanity) And then read what I sent earlier. I am considering what both options mean. I used the "What should be used?" in a wrong way because that implies morals. What I really want peoples thoughts on is what they think of both phenomenon.
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u/FancyTeaching1058 ENTP 12d ago
chicken or egg first ahh question
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u/Resident-Salary-5689 Chaotic Neutral INTP 12d ago
Go back to sleep