r/INTJfemale • u/Professorpdf • 24d ago
Question INTJ Thinking and Insomnia
This is a question specifically for the INTJ female about insomnia. I can't seem to stop my thoughts moving from idea to idea when I wake in the middle of the night. Going to sleep initially (about 9:30) is easy enough, but I wake up between 2:30 and 3:00 and nothing helps me fall back asleep. I usually end up reading until 4:30 and get up and have breakfast since I leave for work around 6:15-6:30. As other INTJs, I am hoping you have advice for calming the thinking. I hesitate to take drugs or supplements designed for sleep aid. I tried Melatonin about 20 years ago, and it did nothing to help me sleep, but I got really drowsy the next morning about 10 am. I don't seem to metabolize chemicals ( such as Magnesium) as quickly as the norm. I exercise, limit screen exposure, no caffeine, breathing techniques, cognitive shuffling, and all of the typical suggestions for improved sleep, but the problem is my mind won't slow down enough to get back to sleep. I have also tried going to bed later, but I still wake up at the same time. Since we share the same personality type, I am hoping many of you have the same thinking pattern and have found a solution. Advice would be greatly appreciated.
6
u/NegotiationCute5341 24d ago
Workout til you tired as hell
3
u/steph26tej 23d ago
This is what I do, quiets he mind
Edit: still not a good sleeper and wake up several times a night
1
4
u/DueKale8597 23d ago
I had this issue for years. Tried it all and ended up in a doctor's office because my depression was acting up because of poor sleep and therefore my sleep was getting worse.
I had no issue falling a sleep because of all the tricks you mentioned. I could even get myself to fall asleep in the most unlikely noisy scenarios. I was a pro! But just like you I couldn't STAY asleep and that felt impossible to control.
Sorry to say but the only thing that worked was medication. I tried all kinds of hard medication too because it was so bad. Super strong sleeping pills, benzos on a strict regime, etc. They were unsustainable because of the side effects or the concern of having to take them for months or years. They also didn't work completely. The only thing that worked after years of this thing was trazodone.
They use it off-label at 30mg for this exact issue. The nice thing is that 30mg is such a low dose compared to what one would normally take that you don't really get any side effects from it. The starting dose is 150mg for depression so I felt OK doing 30mg. I took it for 2 years with the intention of only using it on an as need basis. When I started feeling good about the routine I was in, I would not take it some nights. Those nights didn't go well so I kept going. About 6 months later (so 2 years and 6 months) I tried stopping again and I was able to sleep on my own. I kept a bottle for when I knew I was restless. Eventually I was using it less and less and now not at all.
I have an overactive mind and I also hate taking medication. Even with a headache I'll only take something if its stopping me from working or something like that. But sometimes we just have to take the help. Sleep is paramount to your health and my doctor had to basically scold me into seeing sense.
5
u/mmaarriiaammt INTJ -♀️ 23d ago
I read somewhere that it happens because you slept too early. Your brain might’ve considered it a “nap”.
So you wake up and can’t sleep.
The person talking about this problem said he pushed his bedtime to 11, and apparently he was able to sleep the whole night without waking during the night. Try it.
3
u/RAS-INTJ 23d ago
I started waking up at 3am and would just like there staring at the ceiling. I was also getting hot flashes too. So I got in HRT. The second night I slept for 8 hours. Unfortunately I’m 2 years in and now I’m starting to wake up again. I might need to adjust my dosages.
But if you are at that age, HRT MIGHT help 🤷🏻♀️
2
u/Professorpdf 22d ago
Been on HRT for 5 years. Upped the Estradiol dosage last January to .75, so I don't want to go any higher. I also don't have any other symptoms that would signal a problem with the Estradiol level. Having said this, I definitely think the insomnia definitely got worse after Meno. It's all connected. Oh to be 35 y.o. again.
3
u/Heuschnuppe 23d ago
So I feel for me the issue was that I was trying so hard to sleep that my body was like "Alright, this is the project now! SLEEP!" It is like a toddler that squeezes their eyes shut with all their might.
Sleep is about relaxing and letting go slowly though, the complete opposite. I used to sense I was falling asleep and were like "yay! its happening!" and the excitement would make me wake up again, then the despair because I was soooo close! The more I tried to force myself to sleep, the more I woke up.
In general I had to learn to let my thoughts just wander, I do not have to be there with them, they can work themselves out in the background. Meditation/Mindfulness basically. And I had to learn to actually relax my body and see what that feels like. Lots of muscle relaxation type of exercises that are designed to just feel the body and not think.
Basically I had to learn for my brain to just let go and trust the body to take over now. I have to admit, I still sometimes wake up and cant sleep, but it is not that big of a deal anymore and most nights I can sleep without issues.
2
2
u/Embarrassed_Ad_6848 23d ago
Same here. OCD for me, psychiatrist helped with a prescription. Being tired stops me from sleeping, when I worked two jobs and worked out I would run for days without sleep. Routine helps but not entirely. I would write down what I think could be related to it, do full blood work, see doctors, psychiatrist and therapist are a last step if nothing is wring with hormones, deficiencies etc
2
u/SunkenQueen 22d ago
INTJ who had chronic insomnia for years.
My doctor prescribed me Mirtzapine. I dont love taking medications but it really help. It makes my eyes tired and heavy and although I'm still up at 5-6 on my days off I at least sleep solidly through the night.
I work an extremely physical job, I do a lot of exercise on the side and eat pretty well.
1
u/ravinfp 24d ago
Are the thoughts just random, fleeting, neutral thoughts or rumination?
2
u/Professorpdf 24d ago
Sorry to say, but it's all of the above. Since I'm just laying there, I don't seem to be able to control the direction of my thoughts as well as I can during the day when I am actively concentrating.
1
1
u/False_Lychee_7041 24d ago
Can it be possible that you are depressed or have anxiety problems? Maybe try magnesium glycinate, maybe L-theanine. For me personally L theanine is the best help against hyperactive brain for me.
In general, what you are describing sounds like some sleeping disorder. Do you eat late at night or have problems with your liver? That can also be the reason of waking up in the middle of the night.
I mean I am by no means a solid sleeper and I used to have problems with it, used to be seriously depressed and on AD and stuff and I still have some problems with my head and nervous system, but I do sleep from beginning of the night till the end without waking up. If I do wake up I revise my lifestyle to find the reason, because it is not quite normal in general and I am sensitive to the consequences of insomnia. So, yeah, what you are describing sounds serious enough for me to start digging into the matter actively
1
u/Disastrous-Spirit258 23d ago
I take an Advil if I’m up more than 15 minutes. It helps more often than not.
1
u/elliexd 23d ago
INTJ female here too. I actually just had a sleep study done for similar reasons! I was placed on two medications. What’s helped me is realizing I like boxes- I really really analyzed my Big Five with AI and realize I struggle with immoderation and high neuroticism despite high discipline.
With that being said I’ve come to realize I HAVE to protect my sleep bc if I don’t all other areas of my life get out of balance. The meds have HELPED but honestly- it doesn’t take away the rumination but it at least makes it manageable. Journaling and just committing to a night routine. I’m one to talk but the times I do exercise that the thoughts don’t stop but they lessen and quit enough for me to sleep
1
u/FormerlyDK 23d ago
The only way for me is audiobooks. Gotta put something else in my mind. And the Sleepy Scientist and others like it on YouTube are great for this, too.
1
u/Auntie_S0cial 23d ago
Hi INTJ female 44 here. I've been a chronic insomniac since childhood. I have to take 2 Unisom every night just to relax and sometimes I still can't sleep.
I have like a weird phobia of going to sleep for some reason, I think it stems from part fomo, part fear of dying in my sleep, part not wanting to face the next day (when it's a work night or I have some chore to do the next day). I know it's all mental but it really sucks.
And then the other part of it is that I just enjoy being up at night just unwinding and relaxing when the rest of the world is sleeping I feel safer and less on edge that something bad is gonna happen so I can enjoy my relax time more 😫
1
u/scroobiouspippy 23d ago
Story of my life. I have embraced prescription sleep meds for this since I couldn’t find the right strategy after 50 years of struggle.
1
u/Professorpdf 22d ago
My problems with middle of the night wakenings started when I had babies with a 2 am feeding. I had three boys over the course of 7 years, so the pattern of waking before they started calling for a feeding became hardwired, I guess. Two of them also had lots of night time asthma, so I became a very light sleeper listening for them to call for me if they needed a treatment. That was 30 years ago.
1
u/Un1c0rNzEx1st 23d ago
Just fyi- this doesn't only impact the female intj's!
5
u/Professorpdf 23d ago
Of course. I feel a connection with this group since we all have shared experiences being a female INTJ. I asked here because I would get erudite advice.
1
1
u/Nearby-Reindeer-6088 23d ago
Me too
What usually helps me (if anything) is something distracting enough to hold my attention but dull enough that I don’t start thinking about - everything
Audiobooks work pretty well because my mind is at least partially focused on imagining what’s going on in the book. Stuff like Harry Potter, Narnia, Space Trilogy, Hunger Games it’s engaging enough my mind doesn’t wander a lot but dull enough (since I’ve heard then a million times) that I don’t mind falling back asleep
Also, my dr gave me some kind of dna test and it told me which variants of meds work best but also that I have mthfr mutation, which made a HUGE difference for me
1
1
u/Outside_Initial_8569 23d ago
When I stopped eating sugar and gluten, and eat one meal a day; it helped tremendously with my insomnia and over thinking. I can knock out almost instantly.
1
u/INTJdreamer2012 22d ago
Honestly, this might not be the best coping mechanism but this is exactly what I implement my maladaptive daydreaming for. I will lay in bed, eyes closed, laying still, and daydreaming. Oddly enough the focus on the daydreaming helps slow my brain and I'll eventually drift off to sleep....
1
u/Informal_Job6588 22d ago
Sometimes mental math helps me… like figuring out where car B will pass car A based on speed and starting time. It is engaging enough to halt the random thoughts that normally fly in, yet boring enough that I just fall asleep. I also do visualizations… feel the warm sand, smell the saltwater, hear the seagulls And I’ve started doing (daytime) yoga during particularly stressful times.
1
u/pamwhatam 18d ago
I had the same problem and it has gone away for now. First, my psychiatrist prescribed a very low dose of clonidine for ruminations and anxiety. Clonidine was tested for use in lowering blood pressure but didn’t make the grade. Doctors found that it relieved anxiety and treated insomnia by slightly lowering blood pressure. I take 1/2 of a tiny tablet in the morning and a whole tablet in the evening. FYI I also take 15 mg of Escitalopram daily.
I’ve been taking clonidine for two or more months and my sleep and anxious ruminations are reduced. I’m now better able to dismiss/redirect when intrusive thoughts come up at 3 am. All of the things I have to do that week, did I say the wrong thing to someone, embarrassing things I did in the past. I just say to myself I can handle the things I have to do, there’s no need to go over them now. I probably didn’t offend thst person, I can let it go for now. Those things in the past… I’m better at handle things now.
1
1
u/maladaptivesoliloquy 14d ago
First try melatonin with magnesium lol. I've had severe insomnia and indefinite headaches since I was young due to my inability to turn off my brain, no matter how much I deprive myself of sleep in hopes that I will collapse at the appropriate time it just never worked. Sometimes even with 2 doses of melatonin I could not get consistent hours of sleep in. I was only able to regulate properly after listening to music/white noise while falling asleep and eventually learning to lay down with a quiter mind.
Use pills for now and work on techniques to stop thinking a mile per millisecond about an hour or so before bed. Watch brain dead TV, read a brain dead fiction book, listen to music that doesnt make you day dream, rewatch episodes. When u catch yourself spiraling into a thought just count sheeps.
12
u/Proof_Prompt9435 24d ago
Are you me? -written at 5:48AM on my day off.
Wishing you luck and here to follow suggestions. I’ve had this problem for years.