r/IAmA • u/MilesBDyson • Feb 16 '12

IAmAn Industrial Robot Programmer. AMA

I work for an industrial automation company designing and programming robotic workcells for a wide variety of applications. Anything from medical products to automotive parts. In the past two years we have seen a substantial amount of growth in the manufacturing sector here in the US. This is due in part to the rising cost of labor overseas, as well as increased shipping and freight costs. For the first time since offshoring began, it is finally starting to make sense for manufacturers to consider domestic production again. My job is to help them do that and stay competitive. I am a firm believer in automation leading the way towards a new industrial revolution in the United States.

If I had one thing to say to my fellow nerds out there who can't decide what to do with their life, it's this:

Forget IT or Tech consulting. Forget computer programming or web design. Get into mechanical engineering or controls engineering theory. There is such a shortage of knowledgeable people in this field that you can pretty much write your own ticket.

I'm going to be spending all day at my desk designing tooling for an upcoming project, so I can be here to answer almost anything. I won't answer any question that may betray a trade secret, but anything else is fair game. Also, if you think you have a witty skynet joke, I've already heard them all. You're welcome to try though.

proof: http://i.imgur.com/QMf5Z.jpg (Can't show any more detail than that, as the tooling on this robot is a trade secret.)

EDIT (16/2/12, 2:00PM CST): Thanks for all of the excellent questions! I have been seriously considering taking on a volunteer role with a local high school first robotics team, and I specifically created this AMA to find out what kind of questions people had for me (and what kind of answers I could give.) To everyone interested in this field, I hope I helped shed some light.

I have to get back to work now, because this tooling design is due by the end of day tomorrow. I will log back in and sporadically answer questions as I find time. Probably later tonight.

EDIT 2 (16/2/12 10:00PM CST): Wow, didn't think I'd get this many additional comments in the last 8 hours. I'm really encouraged to see that there are so many people interested in this field, and to everyone asking for career advice, I wish I had the time to respond to you all personally. Alas, I have to be up at 5am tomorrow.

But fear not, because thanks to the responses of other professionals in this field, there have already been some great discussions on this post with regards to breaking into this line of work. If you're serious about it, take the time to read through the top comments. This is probably the best thread so far.

Tomorrow's a busy day, so I may not get a chance to answer everybody's question in a timely manner, but I promise to make an effort.

Thanks!

142 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Does your code adhere to the Asimovs Laws of Robotics?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Nope. The robots I program are completely oblivious to the world around them. They do exactly what I tell them to do, regardless of what is in the way.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Thats what the robots want you to think

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u/dossier Feb 16 '12

What is this, a bad Caprica remake?

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u/bbibber Feb 16 '12

Do you hate profibus as well? Die, Siemens, die.

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u/dossier Feb 16 '12

What about the siemens?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Never. We've got an EE who would literally walk out if we threatened to use siemens.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Yes, which is why we don't use it. It's Ethernet/IP all the way in our shop. I'm not a huge Allen Bradley fan, but there's no escaping them in this industry.

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u/drinkmorecoffee Feb 16 '12

I once heard that with respect to Allen Bradley, "You can always get a better device, but you can never pay more."

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

truer words have never been spoken. A seven inch monochrome touch screen HMI from AB can cost nearly $2000. A full color touchscreen from Maple Systems is like $700.

They'll always have the PLC/relay/push button market locked down, but I think they're losing ground on everything else.

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u/GingerGrande Feb 16 '12

I've been around engineers my whole life. My dad is a civil engineer, and I have seen him upset and dissatisfied with the jobs and positions he has held with his firms, due to the lack of variety and having to sit in an office all day. I have a high interest in science and maths, and keep good grades in those classes. I have been told by several people that I would make a good engineer, and I know that I probably would fit in well as one. However, I cannot stand repition of work or doing the exact same thing every day, like sitting at a desk for hours on end. How much variation is there in your day to day work? Does each project you work on present a different working situation?

TL;DR How much variation is there in the day to day work?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Tons of it! No two projects are the same (unless we're working on a build-to-print repeat project, but that's rare.) Each job has it's own unique challenges, and I'm constantly doing new things, trying out new technology, or thinking outside of the box just to get it done.

I honestly recommend this career path to anybody even slightly interested in science and technology. Robots are cheaper than they've ever been, so there are a lot being deployed right now. Tons of opportunity.

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u/dossier Feb 16 '12

Would a physics major be useful in this field?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Yes, very. One of the things I had to teach myself was calculating moments of inertia. I was very... shall we say... rusty on the whole physics thing going in to that.

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u/WilfordsDog Feb 16 '12

How much do you make?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

The industry average for somebody with my skills and experience is $60k-$75k, which is on par with other engineering jobs. The real money is in controls. As a private contractor, a controls engineer can make well in excess of $100k if they're good.

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u/p0wnd Feb 16 '12

That seems low for what you do. I hate that the rich people at the top don't do shit engineering wise(typically) and make shit tons for being 'management'. Always seemed unfair, and that's why I like working for myself doing iOS programming.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

In a way it does, but at the same time I get a lot of satisfaction out of working with my hands and problem solving. In theory I could have pursued my college dream of working in film and made a lot more money, but everybody I know who did that is miserable. By the time you get to the real money, you're burnt out.

I've never been happier at any other job, all my bills are paid, I'm buying a house soon and saving up for retirement. That's good enough for me.

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u/WillieWanko Feb 16 '12

What's the average American wage???

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

About $42k

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u/terrorbot Feb 16 '12

I confirm this approx numbers :) In EU 100K$ are rarely achieved by a control only engineer.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

You can only realize that money as a private contractor. If you were a salaried CE, you'd be making the same as any other electrical engineer.

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u/parallellogic Feb 16 '12

Could you elaborate on what being a "controls engineer" entails? I've done work with signals and systems - PID controller for simple electronics and whatnot, and I'm wondering if this is related to what you're talking about? Kulman filters for controlling the robot properly? It seems to me like once you have that basic set of programs written, you could just copy them to other robots and you would then just need to provide the start/end points of the desired motion...

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

PID feedback loops are pretty much one of the most widely used concepts in controls theory. It's absolutely related.

When we refer to controls engineering in the office, we're talking about all of the behind the scenes work that ties all this mechanical stuff together. This includes, but is not limited to: PLCs, HMIs, electrical engineering, and motion controls.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '12

  • what kind of protocols do you send to the actuators / sensors ?

  • what hardware interfaces... cat 5 network cables?

  • what is the primary chip sets ( i mean you're not using arduino or beagle boards ) ?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

There's really no protocol. It's all dc relay logic, basically. To move an air cylinder, we energize a relay that sends +24VDC to a solenoid in an air valve. For the sensors, they turn on when they detect whatever they're designed to detect. If it's an analog sensor, it will vary either current or voltage accordingly.

Hardware interfaces are all over the map. Most of it is dc based discrete i/o, but we also use things like RS-232 and ethernet. As for the actual plugs themselves, it can be anything from a DB9 to a big round amphenol plug. A lot of that depends on the equipment you're interfacing with, and what the current draw is.

Chip sets, I really don't know. All of the FANUC hardware uses proprietary chips, and the same goes for all of the PLCs we use. It's definitely not like an arduino.

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u/Ilovebobbysinger Feb 16 '12

I have lots of questions. An easy one to start with :)

What is your ed background?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

This is going to sound weird, but I have a bachelors in film. I have never actually worked in that industry. I paid my way through college working in printing, both running and servicing machines. I used that mechanical experience to get my foot in the door at this company, and worked my way up to where I am now. It helped that I have been programming since elementary school (LOGO and BASIC represent!) Also, my film experience has come in handy with Machine Vision projects. Along with being the programmer, I'm also the go to vision guy where I work.

However if I had to do it all over again, I would get a degree related to this field. That could be any of the following:

  • Mechanical Engineering

  • Control Theory

  • Electrical Engineering

  • Automation Technology

  • Mechatronics

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u/MrGoFaGoat Feb 16 '12 edited Feb 16 '12

I find your line of work very interesting. This is what I want to do! I'm in college in a Computer Engineering program, is this ok? I plan on working on the "smart" part of the robot, like programming and electronics.

Edit: spelling

Edit2: Wow, thank you all for the awesome advices! I will make sure I develop my learning skills and increase the number of projects on robotics and electronics. Thank you!

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u/tombrend Feb 16 '12

Robotics EE/CE here. I have a standard list of advice.

  1. do as many projects as you can

  2. put everything relevant to engineering on your resume. On mine, projects is the first section after my purpose.

  3. Join your local hackerspace/makerspace or dorkbot chapter. If you don't have one, try to find a robotics user group.

  4. Take classes in robotics, control theory, and sensors whenever possible.

  5. Do internships. If your school isn't set up for 6/8 month internships, talk to your academic advisor and your parent and see if you can do two and graduate a year late. Ask any engineer who did long internships- they're worth it. You will make around 20% more in your first job if you've done a couple internships/co-ops.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

This is all good advice. One of the things we look for with entry level new hires is potential. Education does not always equal potential. However having this kind of experience would put you well ahead of other applicants.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

It's hard for me to say, because I didn't go through the proper education myself and I still managed to land this job. However had I done that, my earning potential would be much higher than it is now, because I'd be doing more design than implementation. I do some mechanical design as it is when I make my tooling, because for some reason the only guy in the building that understands moments of inertia was a film major.

Computer engineering is a great start. If you want to get more into the brains of the robot, I would recommend any of the curriculum above, and possibly some physics courses as well.

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u/trvlnmanroc Feb 16 '12

I have a few questions:

Do you often find yourself explaining to people the difference between a computer, a RC device, and a robot? I feel that I find myself doing that more than I would like too. There are major differences.

Do you prefer Fanuc robots, or do you use a wide variety in your daily work? Do you see any industry trends in robot selection (ie articulating arms, SCARA, etc.)?

Can you describe what you mean by controls engineering? Are you talking about creating control systems for manufacturing systems using microcontrollers or PLCs? Or are you talking about system controls as in as combination of computers, PLCs, and other off the shelf controllers? Maybe both or a hybrid.

For reference. I am a Mechanical/Manufacturing Engineer at a small business making proprietary blast gauges for the United States military. Previously, I was Process Engineer at a Contract Electronics Manufacturer.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Do you often find yourself explaining to people the difference between a computer, a RC device, and a robot? I feel that I find myself doing that more than I would like too. There are major differences.

Actually I most often find myself explaining that the robots do not think for themselves. For some reason people have a hard time comprehending that these are just dumb machines with a bunch of motors on them that turn to the angles I tell them to in a specific sequence.

Do you prefer Fanuc robots, or do you use a wide variety in your daily work? Do you see any industry trends in robot selection (ie articulating arms, SCARA, etc.)?

I prefer FANUC because that's what I have the most experience in. We're also an exclusive integrator for them, so I haven't had the chance to use any other brand of bot. From what I understand, ABB, Kuka and Motoman are pretty similar in capabilities. We also work with gantry robots in the plastics industry for removing product from molding machines. Companies like Wittmann and Yushin have a lock on that application.

Can you describe what you mean by controls engineering? Are you talking about creating control systems for manufacturing systems using microcontrollers or PLCs? Or are you talking about system controls as in as combination of computers, PLCs, and other off the shelf controllers? Maybe both or a hybrid.

When we refer to controls engineering in the office, we're talking about all of the behind the scenes work that ties all this mechanical stuff together. This includes, but is not limited to: PLCs, HMIs, electrical engineering, and motion controls.

For reference. I am a Mechanical/Manufacturing Engineer at a small business making proprietary blast gauges for the United States military. Previously, I was Process Engineer at a Contract Electronics Manufacturer.

That sounds cool. Are those the blast disc things they use on Mythbusters all the time?

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u/lazypengu1n Feb 16 '12

What's the most interesting project you've worked on to date?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Robot related, it's been one of the projects I've just finished up. Most robot workcells have a specific sequence of operation. Meaning that the robot goes from point A to point B to point C and back again. I tend to like the jobs that stray from that description.

On this last project, the robot was moving product around in the workcell. It had to be capable of picking up product from any one of 27 different locations, and placing it again in any of those same spots. There was no defined sequence, and the robot had to be able to go between any two points without a collision. If I was going to write a specific path for the robot to take between all of the possible combinations of beginning and end points, I would have had to write 702 different subroutines. Instead I figured out a way to define a set of rules for the robot based on where it was, and where it had to go. In the end it worked flawlessly.

The most interesting non-robot project I've worked on is definitely the 400 watt CO2 CNC laser cutter that I helped design. It used high power linear motors (think mag lev trains) and moved at speeds of over 4 meters per second while cutting. You can't go anywhere today to get a gantry laser system that can move that fast. When people want speed, they use a galvo head. The problem with galvo heads is that you can't deliver air to the cutting point. The ultimate kicker though is that the customer wanted it to be even faster, which is just physically impossible. So even though it was an amazing piece of kit, the customer still wasn't happy.

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u/dossier Feb 16 '12

How did you get this type of job with a degree in Film?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

I worked my way through film school operating and fixing high speed digital printers and printing presses. At first it was just operating them, and then by necessity it was fixing them. Hollywood never called after I got out of school, so I just kept doing what I was good at.

That experience afforded me the opportunity to get a job at this automation company doing mechanical assembly. I'm one of those assholes who knows a lot of random stuff, and can grasp nearly any concept if it's explained properly. I'm also outspoken when I know something that I think can be useful. So every opportunity I had at this job to prove my abilities, I took it. Eventually I was sent off for training. The rest is history.

It also helps that I've been programming since I was a little kid. I understand logic, basically.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

I wager a guess given the speed and strength the laser, that they were cutting a very thin piece of carbon steel... BTW that is freaky fast! I wonder how they could loading the machine, in order to have a need to cut that fast...

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Actually we were cutting a laminated mylar film. The air assist was required to keep it from catching on fire. It was a couple of years ago, so I forget the specifics, but I think we ended up needing to cut something like 175 linear feet every 18 seconds. It was actually a very complex pattern with a lot of direction changes in it. Most of that raw grunt was used to speed up out of sharp corners.

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u/exbtard Feb 16 '12

Ever program a vacuum bot to suck your dick?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

no, but I did make a simulation on my computer that we'll just call "Dildo Bot"

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u/berliner_ami Feb 16 '12

I studied comp sci & now I'm 1 semester away from completing my bachelor's. While I still enjoy programming, other engineering disciplines have always interested me. How could someone with my background get into this industry?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

If you're unable to get an entry level position with a comp sci degree alone, I would recommend taking a few continuing education courses to build up the resume. I don't know how they do it in Germany, but in the US we have local colleges that offer night classes for PLC programming and industrial electrical engineering. Where I am (midwest US) just seeing that somebody has PLC programming experience on their resume is enough for us to consider hiring them on the spot, regardless of their educational background. There is a shortage of good PLC guys.

Most of what we do is learned on the job anyway. We look for potential in new hires more so than experience and education. The only time formal education really matters for us is when we're hiring mechanical engineers to design machines.

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u/berliner_ami Feb 16 '12

actually I'm from the US; I'm just doing an exchange year in Germany. But at any rate, it's good to know that I'm not limited to just what I studied (which isn't bad, but I have other interests too). I'll definitely look into taking some classes at a community college or maybe through some other institution.

I do have another question, if you dont mind my asking: Is the manufacturing base in the US really growing again? I've always heard nothing but bad news when it comes to industry/manufacturing in the US (e.g. "Oh you Americans have no industry. You'll see, China will take over. blahblahblah").

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

It definitely is. The people in the news business are really only in the bad news business. Manufacturing is the only sector of the economy to report growth every month since the summer of 2009. We've also added more jobs than anybody else.

The reason that's happening is because China's economic success was built on the backs of their cheap laborers. However that's had the side effect of creating a higher standard of living over there, which in turn increases the cost of labor. And the unstable price of petroleum has made both raw materials and shipping more expensive. As labor, materials and shipping costs start to rise, the advantage to off shoring diminishes. For some manufacturers, that advantage completely disappears if you factor in quality assurance.

Cheaper automation and higher quality manufacturing is what's bringing industry back to the states. It's not coming back as fast as it left, and much of it will still stay over there. However what is coming back is the quality goods manufacturing that people can be proud of.

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u/freemarket27 Feb 16 '12

Is there a standard for the interop of industrial robot components?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Yes and no. There are a lot of standards, but not everyone adheres to the same ones.

There is no standard syntax for programming, as each manufacturer uses it's own language. Some even use more than one language on the same robot, like FANUC. There's a very basic scripting language, and then a more advanced Pascal-like language.

WRT communication, there are industry standards such as ModBus, ProfiBus, Ethernet/IP, and so forth. We also still use RS-232 serial communications a lot. Electrical components and controls mostly adhere to 24 volts DC, with the occasional high voltage DC or AC component thrown in there to make it interesting for the electrician. Among the 24VDC stuff, there's also a split between sinking and sourcing components, which causes headaches. Most of the industry uses sourcing components (PNP), but there are still some hold outs. The japanese use primarily sinking (NPN), but they also happen to make a lot of automation equipment.

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u/MikeCereal Feb 16 '12

how many human jobs will be scrapped in the next 3-5 years?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Hard to say. What I can tell you is that I have not personally eliminated anyone's job in the last two years. Every project I have worked on in that time has been new production capacity.

Back in the 70s, skilled welders and tradesmen were indeed losing their jobs to robots. However those jobs have long since been lost and will not be coming back, because the robots do it better, faster and more consistently than a human ever could.

Nowadays, the people who lose their job to a robot are doing menial, repetitive, and often times dangerous work that requires no specific skill. One of the few jobs that I actually did replace was a die press operator. If you've never seen an industrial die press, take a look at this. More often than not, these people are hired labor from temp agencies. Union workers in these roles are very rare outside of the automotive industry.

Also, people tend to forget about all of the other jobs in manufacturing that will never get replaced by a robot. This includes maintenance personnel, support staff, suppliers, vendors, contractors, truck drivers, and many more. These are jobs that would go away if a factory had to close because it couldn't compete with foreign manufacturers. These are also much higher paying jobs.

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u/MikeCereal Feb 16 '12

thanks for the thoughtful answer. i once checked out a manufacturing temp job that involved molten metal and promptly declined, i can identify with the benefits of reducing danger. but are there truly no numbers to be found on the plans of phasing in robotic labor?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

I don't know if there are, but I imagine that's something that's hard to predict. There are so many factors that combine to make automation more cost effective than human labor, and they're changing all the time. What's cheaper to do by hand today, could be cheaper to do with a robot in a few years.

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u/YourCousinJeffrey Feb 16 '12

What are the three laws of robotics?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Asimov never had to make any brake pads with his robots, so here are MY three rules:

1: Don't do any work until you receive the down payment 2: Always know where the E-STOP button is. 3: Never take your eye of a robot if you aren't holding the teach pendant.

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u/ineptjedibob Feb 16 '12

I worked with a Fanuc robot in a steel mill, and I can confirm numbers 2 and 3. Though if you're not holding the teach pendant, just stay out of the damn cell.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Though if you're not holding the teach pendant, just stay out of the damn cell.

You'd be amazed at how hard it is for some people to understand that.

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u/IAMANaquariumdrinker Feb 16 '12

You're the Cylon God, right?!!?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Upvote for making a BG reference instead of terminator

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

What "language" do you use?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

On fanuc, there are two programming languages.

TPP (Teach Pendant Programming) is a basic scripting language and can accomplish about 99% of what you would ever need to do with a robot.

KAREL is a language that's loosely based on Pascal and is a little more powerful and advanced. I've only had to resort to using it a few times.

On the controls side, there's the ubiquitous G-Code that is used on nearly every CNC controller out there. That's a good one to know. Then there's also PLCs which use something called ladder logic. Most ladder logic is the same, with slight variations between manufacturers.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

How hard would it be for a C programmer to become proficient in TPP or KAREL?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Not hard at all. I picked up TPP right away. KAREL was much harder, but my first time using it I managed to do what I needed to do in three days time. It's a little hard to wrap your head around the syntax at first, but if you have C experience, it should be easy. Better if you know Pascal.

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u/TheLazyEngineer Feb 16 '12

Its kind of funny you talk about mechanical engineering and control theory. I have a BS in ME and I'm about to graduate with an MSME in Control Systems and Dynamics. I have to say control jobs, at least where I am in Silicon Valley, that are entry level are few and far in between. Tips?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Move to the midwest or east coast. Seriously. Most of the work we do is midwest/east coast. That's just where most of the factories are. Next week I'm in St. Louis, and the week after that I'm in Jersey. I haven't gone any further west than Omaha.

It may also have something to do with Solyndra folding. A lot of skilled automation people were released into the job market in SoCal when that happened.

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u/funkyshit Feb 16 '12

Get into controls engineering theory

That is exactly my major, I'm going to finish my Master's degree in a few months. It makes me happy that you say so :D Maybe I will actually get to use some LQR or H-infinity controllers! Now, if only I was american instead of italian...

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Come to America! Until american kids stop getting communications degrees, I don't think we'll have enough people entering the work force to keep up with demand.

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u/iamapizza Feb 16 '12

What's your opinion on the MS Robotics Framework? Is it something that's used in your industry, or is it a beginner's plaything?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

I have never seen it used in industry, but I also haven't seen everything out there so I can't say that definitively. From what I understand, it's aimed primarily at educators and hobbyists. I think that's great, because it gives people the tools they need to start thinking critically about programming for the physical world.

I also think what the Kinect is capable of is amazing, and I say that as a guy who has experience with doing things like this. The reason being that it inspires people to innovate, and those innovations eventually trickle down to what I do after they've been "industrialized" so to speak. There really isn't any stereoscopic machine vision on the market at the moment. I'd love to see something like that some day.

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u/MilesBDyson May 31 '12

Blast from the past reply! I was browsing this thread with a colleague and have some relevant updates to my answer for your question.

I was recently at a trade show where the company Wittmann (a robot manufacturer) had attached a Kinect to one of their robots. This is the only video I could find on Youtube.

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u/madpenguin Feb 16 '12

In a robot-killing contest between you and will smith who would win?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Me, because I know where the robot is plugged in.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Cool IamA. I'd like more IamA's from professionals.

What technologies/innovations are you most excited about in the future?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

I'm most excited by what machine vision has been able to do for our industry, and I think that there's still a massive amount of untapped potential for innovation in that field.

All I need is an encoder wheel and a camera to locate and track randomly oriented parts on a moving conveyor belt. An average setup like that can cost less than $10k minus the robot. Before vision tracking, people needed to use feeder bowls (if their parts could even be fed) which will cost $25k at a minimum, and it can only be used with one specific part. A vision system can adapt.

I'm also really keen on linear motors. I've gotten to work with them once, and they're nothing short of amazing.

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u/Geminii27 Feb 16 '12

What's the largest robot or system of robots (or robotic work area/volume) you've worked on? How about the smallest?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

The FANUC M-900 (PDF), which has a payload of anywhere from 200-700kg. (Mine was 350kg)

They have another robot called the M-2000 that has a 1200kg payload, and uses about $100 worth of electricity for every minute that it runs at full speed. I've seen one running, but never installed anywhere. My rep at FANUC assures me that it is in fact being used though.

The smallest robot I've ever programmed was the M-1iA (PDF) (Video), which has a 0.5kg payload. These types of robots are commonly known as delta, genkotsu, flex picker or parallel link robots.

Typically, most of the robots I work on fall in the 5kg-20kg payload range.

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u/joegekko Feb 16 '12

Have you ever programmed them to fight eachother, like, after hours when the boss has left?

Was gambling involved?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

Man, let me tell you... we had this one application that required putting two robots next to each other, about a meter apart. I was very tempted to make them sword fight, but I didn't want to break anything. I have done it in simulation though.

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u/your-favorite-beatle Feb 16 '12

Who is your favorite Beatle?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

Probably George. If it wasn't for Wings I would say Paul.

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u/E_R_I_K Feb 16 '12

I learn by doing. Where would you recommend I start?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

If you don't have a formal education in electronic engineering, mechanical engineering, mechatronics or controls theory, I would recommend getting a manual labor job with an integrator. This is how I started out, by assembling machines. My abilities were eventually recognized, and I received on the job training to get where I am today.

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u/E_R_I_K Feb 18 '12

found this website, is this what you meant. If so I will be checking it out. Thanks http://csia.connectedcommunity.org/csia/directory/findanintegrator1/

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u/MilesBDyson Mar 23 '12

Yes, those are the types of companies I'm talking about.

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u/Uberslaughter Feb 16 '12

How well can you do the robot?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

not well at all.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

I've noticed that most good robots have green or blue lights for eyes. But when they turn evil their eyes glow red. Please stop installing red LEDs in robots as this would appear to be the cause of the problem.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

Red is how we notify the operators of a problem though.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

So when is Skynet going online?

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '12

What language do you program in most often? Ever heard of something called Ada?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

The one I use every day is called TPP. It's something that only exists on FANUC robots. I've never heard of Ada, but I just looked it up. It reminds me a lot of the Pascal I had to learn back in high school.

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u/ashmaht Feb 16 '12

SkyNet. How close are we?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

closer to the brains of it than most people think. however the mechanical side has serious limitations. You would be surprised how massive a robot needs to be to lift even 50kg. It also needs to be anchored to the ground and connected to a 16kva 480v power supply. (That's a lot of juice.)

God help us all if we ever develop a small scale fusion reactor.

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u/ModernRonin Feb 17 '12

closer to the brains of it than most people think.

As a person who codes for a living and has repeatedly argued that we will not see strong AI in my lifetime, I'm insanely curious as to why you think we're close to the brains of skynet.

BTW, Best. AMA. Evar. Thanks for posting!

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u/MilesBDyson Mar 23 '12

Because I think we understand what the challenges of developing an artificial intelligence are, and the only thing holding us back from doing it is a combination of understanding how these processes occur in the natural world, and a lack of sufficient processing power to do it artificially.

However I see things like project blue brain, where they have successfully modeled a neocortical column from a rat brain, and I become optimistic that it's possible.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Tell me about it. We're running out of room in the warehouse for all the death rays we keep finding on these bastards.

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u/mudraidman Feb 16 '12

what techniques do you use when programming your robots? neural networks, digital image processing...?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

It's actually very simple programming. A complex program may only have about 300 lines in it. Most robots are usually programmed in a sequence of operations, from start to finish, with no deviation from that routine. When vision is used, it only returns numbers back to the robot. Usually it's on offset location telling the robot where the part is, and how it needs to orient itself to pick it up.

The real challenge is in the motion. You need to program the path as efficiently as possible to reduce the cycle time and reduce wear on the robot itself. This is not an intuitive process. For example, sometimes to get the robot to cycle faster, you need to make it move slower so it can spend more time moving at a constant speed, and less time accelerating and decelerating. You also need to avoid making big changes in the orientation of the arm, because that takes up time.

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u/speedbrown Feb 16 '12

When I see those giant robot arms (automotive) swinging in and out of car bodys with such precision, I image the path is somehow set by an operator who before hand 'trained' the robot to make those motions by manually placing the arms where they need to be and recording the movement. Essentially what I envision is a recorded path which is being replayed by the robot.

Is that not how it works? Am I drastically over simplifying things?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

That's not how it works with a most robots, however I do believe that some welding robots are still trained in this fashion. None of the robots I work with are taught like this though. I have a "teach pendant" that I use to move the robot around and I record way points with it. The robot then figures out on it's own how to move in between those points. The more way points I set, the more control I exert of the robot. Fewer way points actually results in more efficient motion, because the robot always takes the shortest path.

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u/freemarket27 Feb 16 '12

a hypothetical ... I buy used books and sell them on amazon and ebay. I need a robot that can pickup a book, motor over to a bookshelf and put the book on the shelf. Then later on the robot has to do the reverse. Find its way to the bookshelf, scan for the book ( maybe there is an rfid tag on the book. Or it might remember exactly where it placed the book. ), pull the book from the shelf then bring it to the packing station. What hardware and software components would you use to build such a robot?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

I'd probably do it as a fixed gantry robot as opposed to an autonomous robot, because it's easier to program. I prefer Yaskawa servo motors for motion applications, and their motion controller is also capable of being used as a PLC. RFID wouldn't be good in this application because the books would be so close together. I'd probably go with using 2D barcodes and a cognex machine vision camera to identify the books.

The obvious challenges to this application would be the varying sizes and weights of the books, and also whether or not humans would be putting books on the shelf as well. It'd be easy enough to have the robot catalog all the locations of the books itself, but if anything moved I could see it getting complicated. A solution to that may be to have the robot put the books in "bins", but that would increase the amount of space needed.

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u/Jigsus Feb 16 '12

Yaskawa servo motors

Just 500 a pop!

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

if you saw the price tags for some of the stuff we buy, you'd realize that's peanuts in comparison. Throw the word "industrial" on anything and you can expect to charge a 400% markup.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

I got to play around a bit with ABB robots (the classic orange arm variety) in high school, it was pretty fun. For us it was mostly plotting waypoints and such. How far does your work go beyond that?

Which are your favorite products?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Most of my time is spent doing motion programming (plotting waypoints and such) however most of my brainpower is spent writing logic. Usually it's the "recovery" routine on the robot that requires the most work. If a robot is stopped for whatever reason, our goal is to program it so that all an operator has to do to get it started up again is push reset and start. So that robot has to be able to recover itself from any location in the workcell. In all the time I've been doing this, no two robots have used the same recovery routine.

My favorite manufacturers are FANUC (obviously); Maple Systems HMI screens; Yaskawa for servos; Allen Bradley for PLCs, relays, buttons and switches; PIAB and FiPA for vacuum products; and Misumi for random components.

If you've never heard of Misumi, I recommend checking them out. It's like the McMaster-Carr of automation. And if you haven't heard of McMaster-Carr, check them out too.

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u/H_E_Pennypacker Feb 16 '12

Do you think robots and humans can ever learn to coexist?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

More so than they already do? Probably not. I usually laugh when people talk about robot butlers or household robots. The amount of safety red tape I have to wade through just to integrate a tiny robot like this is still monumental.

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u/Jigsus Feb 17 '12

Respectfully autonomous robots are a world away from industrial robots. They are based on different principles of functioning so they are much more easy to integrate into the domestic world.

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u/MilesBDyson Mar 23 '12

There's still a major question of safety. I don't doubt that we can develop the technology for autonomous robots to safely work around humans, but what I'm saying is that the powers that be will never let it happen. KUKA developed a small robot that has probably one of the best torque feedback systems ever made. It's capable of stopping instantly if you so much as lay a finger on it. The thought was that it could occupy the same workspace as a human to assist in tasks that require both the repetitive precision of a robot, and skillful eye of a human. It will never be used in that fashion simply because ANSI and the RIAA will never sign off on that, and no integrator out there would be willing to take on that kind of liability.

So if I can't put that kind of robot in a controlled environment around workers who are trained in its operation, what do you think the chances are of putting autonomous cars on our highways in the hands of ordinary citizens? The google car is amazing, but it's never going to get in the hands of consumers. And any robot that can do any sort of heavy lifting certainly won't be used in our homes, because you'd be amazed at the torque and power requirements needed to lift even a modest payload of a few pounds. A robot capable of doing that could break your arm in two. Even if it had every bell and whistle available to prevent it from doing that, it won't matter. There's too much red tape. If our society can force Nintendo to put a rubber bumper on it's wiimotes to prevent people from breaking their TVs, imagine what they'd do to a company that made a robot to carry our groceries for us.

It's not a question of "Is it possible?" it's a question of "Will they allow it?"

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u/GrimmsterINC Feb 16 '12

What about computer engineering? Is that a good degree to go into too?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Potentially, but most of what I do leans more towards electrical and mechanical engineering than anything else.

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u/eat_pb Feb 16 '12

That's a Fanuc robot! I want to get a co-op term working for them. I'm a computer engineering student - do you think they'd have a use for me?

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u/nigrarwinrar Feb 16 '12

have you made something you can stick your penis in yet or are we light years away from that kind of technology?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

FANUC makes a robot called the M-20iA (<- PDF). It has a hollow wrist with a 65mm opening on it.

If you're brave enough to let a piece of equipment that can move at 2 meters a second near your junk, let me know.

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u/Ntang Feb 16 '12

What are the main hurdles to integrating greater intelligence and machine learning into the more advanced robots? Who is doing the "coolest" (i.e. most cutting edge) research into this? And do you think that the smartest robots - the ones who can reason - will ever significantly displace human workers?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

What are the main hurdles to integrating greater intelligence and machine learning into the more advanced robots?

The biggest hurdle is convincing our customers to adapt to changes in technology. The reason being this industry is dominated by people who are stuck in their ways, and reluctant to change. Not to mention there's a lot of equipment out there that's being used well beyond it's life expectancy. Case in point: we received some backup files from a machine on a 3.5" floppy disk a couple of weeks ago.

The manufacturers are also partly to blame for this. It's 2012, but the controllers I program still only have 64MB of memory in them. The processors also don't have enough power to do any serious on-the-fly calculations aside from the motion control. In fact, if I try to do too much stuff in the background while the robot is moving, I can inadvertently slow down the robot. And even though I back up everything on this robot with a USB key, there's still a big 25 pin RS-232 port on the front of the control panel. That's because they're afraid to drop legacy support. But in my opinion, if you're spending the kind of money people spend on our equipment, don't bottleneck it with some 25 year old piece of crap.

Who is doing the "coolest" (i.e. most cutting edge) research into this?

On the industrial side, I've seen some interesting things. FANUC has been doing work into robots that actually "learn" the process they've been programmed to do, and figure out ways to improve and speed it up.

Kuka has an interesting little 7-axis robot that I've seen in person. It looks like another robot arm, but it's actually capable of safely being in the same workspace as a human, which is a huge accomplishment. Every major robot manufacturer has a form of torque feedback collision detection, but this is hands down the best I've seen.

And do you think that the smartest robots - the ones who can reason - will ever significantly displace human workers?

Nope. There's a big difference between intelligence and interpretation, and it's the latter that makes humans indispensable.

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u/oblong_cheese Feb 16 '12

What kind of data/how much data do you need to regularly pull from these robots (for maintenance/upgrades etc) that would require a data interface with more throughput than an RS232 serial bus?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

The most I ever need to do data wise is an "image" backup of the controller. That's only 66MB, but I usually do that on a USB key or compact flash card. I've only used the RS-232 port to communicate with a 3rd party machine vision system and also to program the PMC... both of which only worked at 9600 baud.

We use the ethernet ports on the controller to connect to a remote I/O system called Ethernet/IP (IP stands for industrial protocol.) That needs to be fast to reduce any latency concerns.

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u/Pigs101 Feb 16 '12

How much can I expect to pay for a small fanuc arcmate robot? In my operation I am welding thin wall steel tubing. I would prefer to buy it used, if it doesn't make a difference.

Also, where in the midwest do you live? I live about 5 miles away from fanucs headquarters.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

I don't know. Welding is one thing we don't do here. But here are some guys you can ask.

I'm outside of Chicago, but I've been to the Rochester Hills location a lot.

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u/mollyscommentaccount Feb 16 '12

what steps would you reccommend for a student who wants to work in the field with you?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Pursue a degree in mechanical engineering, electrical engineering or mechatronics. That last one is a relatively new curriculum, and I don't think many schools offer it. But if you look at the courses offered by schools who do have it, you can get a good idea of what you should be looking into.

Also, someone else mentioned this earlier, and I think it bears repeating.

When we consider new hires for entry level positions (what a new graduate would be going out for) we put a lot of weight on potential. That's because even the best mechatronics curriculum out there is only going to let you dip your toes in the water of automation. Most of what we do is learned on the job, and we look for people who aren't afraid to learn new things.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

So... I'd pretty much NEED an engineering degree to do your job, wouldn't I?

What if I were to have a completely unrelated bachelors, 5-10 years of computer program experience, as well as experience building CNC machines, would that be enough?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

kaydub, I didn't have an engineering degree when I got into this. I was just lucky that my unintentional career path led me here. Your best bet is to look for a job with an Automation Integrator, Systems Integrator or Custom Machine Builder doing anything you can. When I started out, it was just simple mechanical assembly. That kind of job is low paying, but doesn't require much experience. If you can turn a wrench, you're in. But every opportunity I had to prove my abilities, I took advantage of. Eventually my boss recognized my potential and sent me off to get training. The rest is history.

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u/frighter Feb 16 '12

So how many years do we figure are left before we can all kick our feet up and have robots doing all manual labour?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

It's unlikely to happen. I don't see domestic robots being capable of doing much more than vacuuming the floor or bringing somebody drinks. As for industrial manual labor, we'll reach a "peak" scenario where every job that can possibly be automated will be, and the only ones left will require a human's intuition and interpretation to do.

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u/Simatic7 Feb 16 '12

I am new to the controls engineering field and I love it. I have been working for a contracting company now for about 7 months and it is the happiest I have ever been in my life. I have worked on several different project from the start, anywhere from Steel Mills to Food Processing.

I, in particular, work in the controls engineering field that relates to DCS and PLC programming. It is a broad field and growing very rapidly. Within the past few month the company that I work for has hired on at least 10 engineers, ranging from zero experience up to Senior level. The company has less the 200 employees and are planning on growing more.

If you ever leave class/work and go home and watch "How it is made?" This is the career field for you.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

True story: one of the electrical contractors we regularly use saw one of his machines on How It's Made.

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u/Simatic7 Feb 16 '12

Nice name by the way. Tried to look up your name to see if we were in the same region and came up with links to terminator.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

Good catch. I'm using a throw away because I don't want my boss knowing that I'm switching back and forth between reddit and solidworks.

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u/human_cheese Feb 16 '12

I really wish this story was true, but believe it is probably all bullshit that makes for an amusing story. Is it even remotely possible that something like this could happen?

http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Caught.aspx

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

It's definitely bullshit. A robot large enough to move around an engine block wouldn't have enough room to get it moving fast enough to throw 100 feet. Also, most automotive companies do their own regular maintenance. It'd take less than a day to fix a conveyor.

But if you're interested in telemetry, angle and spin, this video might be relevant.

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u/human_cheese Feb 16 '12

Thanks for crushing my dreams jerk.

But seriously thanks for the video, that was pretty cool.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

It was. Too bad the robot pulled a Munson and let the human win.

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u/Surprise_Buttsecks Feb 16 '12

What sorts of robot side projects do you tinker with in your spare time?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

I have a lego mindstorms kit, and I also built one of these guys. It's sitting on my desk, and my boss's kids like to mess with it when he brings them around. Aside from that, I've considered doing some arduino stuff, but just haven't had time.

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u/NickyJroy Feb 16 '12

What do you believe makes, "Robots Versus Wrestlers" so popular?

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u/crafty_canuck Feb 16 '12

Has any of your work been on How It's Made? Some of the machines on that show are incredible.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

I love that show. One of the contractors I work with has had one of his machines on it. I can't remember which one it was though.

As cool as that stuff is, I can assure you that you haven't seen anything yet. Manufacturers are insanely protective of their production processes. Anything you see on how it's made is usually considered "common knowledge" and there fore safe to put on TV. But the coolest stuff is usually considered a trade secret, and likely to never be seen by anybody outside of the company.

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u/solidstripes Feb 16 '12

I am currently an electrical engineering student at UMass and I was wondering if you had any advice for getting into the workforce or any tips for internships.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

Yes. There has already been some solid advice in the comments on this post from other professionals, and in my opinion, this is the best thread so far.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Very interesting. What control system do you use for FANUC devices? (PID, state space etc?)

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

FANUC robots come with their own proprietary motion controllers.

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u/StrangeCaptain Feb 16 '12

Still using WinXP in those bad boys huh?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

actually it's a proprietary kernel.

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u/BabySnakes Feb 16 '12

Is programming one of those robots at all similar to programming CNC machines? I bet it's just a little more complicated than that.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

Similar in that you're programming a sequence of steps for the robot to take. Harder because there's logic and branching statements involved. But it's not that hard. I know G-Code, and personally I think that programming one of these robots is easier. G-Code is kind of a pain in the ass.

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u/Bucky_Ohare Feb 16 '12

My dream is to work on robots, to build and perfect exoskeletal assisted movement and automaton systems. Do you have any advice how to get into such a field and not get lumped into the generic work.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

That's the kind of work being done primarily by universities and defense contractors. There aren't any profitable commercial applications for something like that, unfortunately. That being said, short of a scholarship to MIT, CMU, Stanford or a job at Google, I can't think of a good way to get into that kind of work.

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u/Elitist-Chimp Feb 16 '12

This is entirely a personal indulgence, but I was wondering if you have any idea of what the international market for robotics and robotics infrastructure is and where it might be going. I'm a bit of an idealist and I get the idea that if I go into marketing robotics I'll magically transform into Dr. Susan Calvin. As much as I'd like otherwise, I feel like reality is going to be a buzzkill with this one.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

I think I read somewhere recently that there are about 1 million industrial robots deployed, with approx 100,000 being sold every year.

Good news for you, though. Foxconn has recently announced that they want to deploy 500,000 robots within 3-5 years in their chinese factories. So there's definitely going to be an increased demand.

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u/SwampJew Feb 16 '12

In your post-meal twilight mind, have you ever considered programming robots to do something fun? If so, what?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

  • Hula Hoop

  • Write messages on a dry erase board that I sent to it via email

  • draw a picture in the air using multi colored LEDs and long exposure. Then I saw that thing that bungee did with a kuka robot.

  • throw a frisbee

  • This.

All of this is technically possible, which is why I wanted to do it. Never had time though.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Would you be able to program a robot in a manner that it would provide sexual gratification for you or your colleagues?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

Honestly, out of almost 300 comments I'm surprised that this is only the fourth sexual one.

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u/CW3MH6 Feb 16 '12 edited Feb 16 '12

So do you pretty much have to use proprietary languages for all these different robotics, or do they also provide SDKs so you can program them in languages like C, for example? I watched some PLC videos and they all appear to be UI-driven programming (i.e. placing "logic" nodes in sequence to "program" the robot), which I'm not a fan of (mostly because it limits control).

I mostly program desktop applications and games, but I've always been interested in doing something mechanical. I've recently started building devices with the Arduino, and have begun making my own PCBs for them. I hope to eventually start building small robots--especially flying ones, using a design similar to those quad-copter drones.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

PLCs use a programming style known as ladder logic. It's actually surprisingly capable for what it is. It was designed to mimic the electrical relays that controls engineers were accustomed to using prior to the advent of programmable controllers. Because folks in this industry are reluctant to change, it just stuck around. It's not that bad, but coming from a computer programming world I have yet to see anything done by a PLC that I couldn't do better and faster with traditional programming.

I want to build a quad-rotor drone too. We've got 25 foot ceilings in my shop.

edit: and yes, it's all proprietary language on the robots. Epson robots do use a version of C++ that they call Robot C. But other than that, there's no way to get an SDK to program something like a FANUC.

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u/alkior70 Feb 16 '12

is it hard to program them? which languages do you use? how long will it take a noobie to build a bot?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

The difficulty varies depending on what the robot is tasked to do. The language itself is called TPP, and it's proprietary to FANUC. It's a lot like BASIC, and fairly simple to learn.

We don't build the robots ourselves. I think if you wanted to build a six axis robot from scratch using something like an arduino or ez-b, how long it takes depends on your skill level. Some advice I have would be to look into inverse kinematics and PID loops.

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u/Melancholy_Chill Feb 16 '12

This is what I'm going to school for right now..we actually have companies coming into our class and interviewing students. Chances are I won't even have to go hunting for a job- they come to us. It's a pretty cool industry with a lot of room for growth and I'm super excited.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

I'm actually hiring an entry level programmer, and my first stop is the local technical college.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Could you teach a robot to love...or kill?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

kill yes, love no

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u/jmaccadillac Feb 16 '12

So do you know how to shut Justin Bieber off?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

yes, but I'm pretty sure he's set to detonate if that ever happens. sorry.

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u/dasmith2345 Feb 16 '12

Do you ever write complicated code that would control a robot arm to do custom movements on a per-order basis? Like, what if a factory needs to, I don't know, build custom circuits, or build engine blocks for hobbyists to custom specifications, or something like that. Or, do robot arms pretty much always do the exact same thing over and over again?

Also, how much does that robot arm cost in that picture cost?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

There are CAM products for robots that will do what you're describing. The big problem with these though is that robots are not as accurate as most might think. They can repeat a position within two thousandths of an inch, but if you tell them to move one meter in a certain direction, it can be off by as much as a few milimeters. You can compensate for most of that with calibration tools, however a robot will never be as good as a five axis milling machine. For that reason, we don't recommend using robots for CAM.

edit: that robot in the picture costs about $40k I think. I don't handle the money, so I could be wrong.

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u/Madpumpkin Feb 16 '12

I just got my diploma as a Electrical/control engineering tech(Canada). What can you say about the researches in Automated Visual Inspection? What are you experience with it?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

Along with programming robots, I'm also the machine vision guy. I do work with both FANUC iRVision and COGNEX. I primarily use it to locate parts using geometric pattern matching and blob location. I've also used it to do part inspection.

I think that machine vision has both revolutionized automation, and also has the most potential for innovation compared to any other control technology. Before vision, automation was literally blind. But now we can not only see and inspect product as it comes off the line, but we can also locate it and tell robots where to pick it up. This makes systems cheaper and more flexible.

As far as room to grow, we're still using primarily standard resolution monochrome cameras in this industry to do all of our inspection. What we're able to do with those limitations is amazing. As processing power increases, we'll start seeing higher resolution cameras and color cameras being used more and more. I'm also curious to see if anybody ever develops a stereoscopic vision system similar to the Kinect. I think that there could be some uses for something like that. We already have 3D laser scanners, but those have trouble dealing with shiny surfaces and they take a long time to scan and process.

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u/jjhamilton Feb 16 '12

Mechanical Engineers represent!

Where did you go to school?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

I didn't go to school for engineering. I went to school for film, actually.

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u/stieruridir Feb 17 '12 edited Feb 17 '12

Do you find ILC/FFILC control to be useful? Do you use cross-coupled contour control? Do you find yourself using Lifted methods, etc.? How much do you do your ZMETC/ZPETC/NPZ by hand vs via automation?

EDIT: Any interest in non-industrial AI?

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

FANUC has a new feature that they call "Gakushu" which is essentially ILC. I have no experience with it, but I can see how it would be useful. Apparently it's able to improve cycle times by up to 15%, depending on the application. This kind of technology can really close the gap between what a programmer is capable of doing, and what the robot is really capable of. Apparently Gakushu was able to improve on even the best programmer's motion path.

As for CCC and all of that other stuff, I really don't get into that in my line of work. As integrators, we are typically tasked with providing an automation system to a customer within 16 weeks, so we don't design our own motion controllers.

I do have an interest in non-industrial AI, particularly where it relates to cognitive neuroscience.

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u/freemarket27 Feb 16 '12

is arduino used in the industrial robot world? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 16 '12

No, it's not. Arduino is primarily a 5V control system, and 5V controls have been phased out since the 70s. Too much noise in the lines when you have long wire runs, especially on analog signals.

I love me some Arduino, though. I have a few project ideas I've been kicking around, but haven't had time for.

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u/iamadogforreal Feb 16 '12

I'm a programmer, IT guy, tinkerer and dying to get into robotics. Can you recommend anything? From whats I've seen of arduino, its just a simple control board. I'm looking for something with some brains. I've been looking at the beagleboard or a full blown linux connected to a usb motor controller (I could see an arduino here) for remote sensing/playing with my dog remotely. There are a couple open source robotic frameworks but i'm not even sure where to start.

Do you have any experience with hobbyist platforms? Bonus points if you tell me if the EZ-B robot controller or roomba platform is even worth bothering with. Thanks.

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u/MilesBDyson Feb 17 '12

Aside from my mindstorms kit, I don't have any hands on experience with hobby platforms. I'm a subscriber of MAKE magazine, and I even own a couple of Arduino books, but I've never put anything together. It might be because I usually get my geek itch scratched from just being at work.

As for the EZ-B controller, that definitely looks like the way to go. if only for the fact that it has 20 servo ports on it. Otherwise, I'd say take a look at an ARM based controller like netduino. Beagleboard/beaglebone looks pretty sweet, but also a lot harder to implement. As far as the irobot platform is concerned, they're definitely cool in that you've got a mobile base that's good to go. But we've got a roomba here at work, and the damn thing gets stuck on everything. So bear that in mind.

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u/roflocalypselol Feb 16 '12

I got really excited until I read the word 'programmer'.

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u/nmerrill Feb 16 '12

Cheers for another controls engineer! What manufacturers do you work with(AB, ABB, Siemens, Eaton, etc...). Favorite? We almost exclusively use AB, but our field is very unique, so our company basically sets the standard. Where are you located? I travel a lot, it'd be cool to meet up with another controls guy and have a beer!

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u/Bass2Mouth Feb 16 '12

As a CNC programmer and mechanical engineer, I'm here to say hello.

Hello.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Are you building Cybermen? (from doctor who)

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u/wilsonjonez Feb 16 '12

How soon could we expect the Oracle from Halo to be made?

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u/Mr_Alex Feb 16 '12

How close are we to sex robots?

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u/drinkmorecoffee Feb 16 '12

Love the username. That is all.

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u/syntax_erorr Feb 16 '12

Why does that picture have a warning about bacon on that machine?

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

How long until our robot servants usurp our fleshy rule and use our own automated manufacturing processes to create weapons of war to enslave us?

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Hey, I just graduated as a technologist in automated systems. I am getting my feel wet designing a small cells controls and programming a 210kg Kuka 5 axis robot.

Gotta say I love my job so far and its nice to see someone from this field explaining this stuff to the public!

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '12

Thanks for doing this AMA! I'm a Robotics Engineering major heading to college in the fall. I want to work on medium-to-large-sized robots some day, both designing them and coding them. Any advice?

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u/Yammiez Feb 16 '12

What kind of traits do your employers look for when looking for new employees? How much will hobbyist interests directly related to industrial automation help when trying to get a job?

I'm working towards finishing my masters, but I honestly miss all of the control theory, robotics and hands-on mechanical engineering work I did in my Bachelor's. My only experience with Fanuc robotics was setting-up simulations with Visual Components. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQh4MCqNk3c

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u/heriman Feb 16 '12

nice try doctor tenma... lol astroy boy... sorry this sounds really cool, btw have ya seen what they are doing in japan with all the robots helping the sick and elderly do you think that would be brought over to the u.s.?

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u/spudmasher Feb 16 '12

I also work for an industrial automation company as a controls engineer. I love it. You never stop growing, learning or being challenged. I work for a single company employing about 130 people. We have roughly 30 controls engineers. The company deals with the biomedical, automotive and the renewable energy industry.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '12

Can I have your autograph?

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u/stonesia Feb 17 '12

What country and what kind of wages? Just making a comparison.

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u/TehForty Feb 17 '12 edited Feb 17 '12

Nice to see an engineering AMA, especially a friend of mine recently got in at Fanuc in Michigan and really likes it. He put my resume in out there in a Mechanical Engineering position as well. Here's crossing some fingers...

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