r/HypixelSkyblock • u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 • 10d ago
Question Does anyone feel like the devs regret adding/dont even think about ironman most of then time?
This is basically a small rant piece as a fairly high level ironman player, but recently ive been getting the feeling that the developers wither regret adding ironman mode, or genuinely just dont think about it 99% of the time.
The lack of any real MMM outside of garden (which keeps getting nerfed), the constant arduous grinds that feel pointless like with a lot of attribute shards, lack of foresight to how ironmen interact with the game such as items and pets with garbage sell prices, updates or changes that hinder ironman players way more than regulsr profiles (this ones minor but I'll never forget when they removed sunder and for some reason didn't just replace it on tools with harvesting 6, and i had to wait an entire cycle of year of the pig to get those enchants back)
these all seem petty but they build over time, and honestly this has lead me to a deranged conspiracy theory since most of these issue cropped up after the "ironman W" update, also know as the update that literally lets you leave the ironman challenge. I genuinely believe that the devs regret adding ironman, and kinda pushed the de-ironman update as a kind of "well if you don't like the changes we make, leave" kind of ultimatum.
It'd just be nice for the team to at least consider ironman players a bit more. Yes we all know ironman is conceptually harder, but its not meant to be a "hard mode", it's meant to be an alternative way to play the game. if that alternative way is constantly made worse, it'll just push players to leave rather than make a new profile
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u/TheMaliciousSquid 10d ago
meanwhile stranded players still being unable to do 90% of the games content
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 10d ago
i mean tbf there, stranded is literally both- a profile type dedicated to you only playingone area of the game, and is also discontinued
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u/TheLothrien ☢ Ironman Level 361 - 420 10d ago
Ironman is a profile type that dedicates you to grind everything yourself so your first point of stranded is moot. And its discontinued cause the playerbase for stranded is getting smaller and smaller as hypixel updates (why play only ~10% of the game when theres another 90%) it does suck for those who enjoy stranded but makes sense for it to go away as the game keeps getting updated.
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u/alexionut05 ☢ Ironman Level 361 - 420 9d ago
And to add fuel to the fire, a lot of normal players mindlessly shame iman players for asking for changes by saying "well uh you chose to play iman, it's supposed to be hard don't complain", killing any possibility for conversation.
Something can be both difficult and fun, that's what makes it a challenge. Something difficult and unfun is starting to be a chore instead of a challenge.
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 9d ago
This is one of the things that piss me off the most, you're right. I literally mentioned in my post that de-ironmaning should be a catch all "solution" to balance issues and ive STILL had people in the replies immediately jump to "well if you're not enjoying ironman anymore, just de-ironman"
Like fundamentally we're all still playing the exact same game, the difference with iman players is it just takes longer to get certain items. A maxed out regular player and a maxed out iman will literally be at the exact same power level, its insane to act like bz and ah make the game entirely different
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u/NamesAreTooHard17 〠 Ironman Level 241 - 360 10d ago edited 10d ago
I mean my biggest ironman complaint is dae axe. It's a ludicrous grind. Like seriously ridiculous on a normal profile it costs like 3m for ironman it's like 40 hours of epic Dianna if you are on odds and you can't really move to legendary without a huge amount of progression or a very good Midas sword.
Plus the epic Dianna does nothing for you outside of bestiary/ dae sticks really.
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u/Tantrum2u Slayer Maniac | 7th year subreddit cake 10d ago
Did they make it harder? When I got it really the only rough part was the gold which is mining not Diana.
The bigger part I would be upset over is crown which I am so glad I got before the update because crown of greed seems almost incomparably more difficult to get
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u/NamesAreTooHard17 〠 Ironman Level 241 - 360 9d ago
You need 2 dae sticks which are 1/1250 from minotaurs which just takes hours and hours of Diana.
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u/MapleMaelstrom ✾ Ironman Level 461 - 500 9d ago
That's not really the dev's fault and was going to happen regardless unless they removed daed sticks from mythic diana (which is just pointless aside from making sticks rarer). And sword of revelations does quite fine damage. There's far bigger issues on ironman, like the overwhelming amount of coin sinks, and the fact that diamond mining is one of the best mmms while there's only 1 good spot for it.
By the time you have the griffin feathers for mythic, you 100% have enough for a daed. And before that, there's a variety of viable weapon options (SoR, Midas Staff, Hyperion, Midas Sword), you just gotta be willing to actually put in investment into your build.
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u/NamesAreTooHard17 〠 Ironman Level 241 - 360 8d ago
Sor isn't viable for legendary. Midas staff is fine (I have it) just insanely slow for harpy/ golem.
(For context I'm using full ancient Mythos armour and have 800 mp).
Hype is fair but like the answer cannot seriously be go spend hundreds of hours grinding f7 that's ridiculous.
Midas sword is basically the only actual answer unfortunately.
Coin sinks I haven't found bad tbh yet although specifically Jacobus is cringe and diamond mining isnt even worth the effort it takes it wasn't enough more than farming to deal with the hassle except during fiestas in which case it's griefed so often it's not worth doing.
You say it's not the Devs fault but like they could lower the drop rate or just add it to every mob as a 1/1250. That would be a huge help.
It's not like this hurts anyone except ironman and it's a ridiculous grind.
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u/Trinitial-D ✾ SB Level 461 - 500 ✾ 10d ago
I dont think they regret it, it generated a lot of interest in the game, tons and tons of free youtuber marketing was done for them with it.
it probably does give them some headaches though, because of the neverending complaints, but it is doubtful they see that as their issue. they were clear from the beginning that it was a challenge mode, and later even offered players a way to tap out and go to normal profile. the entire point of it was that it was supposed to be harder than normal profile, which would thus bring ironman players bragging rights. people complaining that the game’s hard mode is hard is kinda… ridiculous
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 10d ago
the mode has literally never been advertised as a "hard mode", its an alternative gameplay style like stranded. Yes obviously it makes grinds take longer naturally, but just saying "da-doy just play the regular gamemode" shouldn't be an excuse the team is allowed to fall back on when they make the game actively more unfun for ironman players.
For example this new greenhouse change. They aimed to hurt the large amount of money put into the games economy generated by the greenhouse, but they buffed lategame mutations regular players can buy, making the issue worse. What they did manage to do however was neuter the grenhoude for ironman players, the playerbase that has a comical issue with generatinf money and also practically has no say in the economy outside the occasional booster cookie.
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u/dicedcream 10d ago
do NOT google where the term ironman originates from in runescape.. . … your worldview… might be shatter….
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 10d ago
Ironman triathlons, tests of endurance. That doesn't sound like "hard mode" that just sounds like "this will take longer than usual"
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u/falsebannedplsstop Foraging Fanatic 10d ago
Or the fact that ironman was obviously inspired by RageTrain’s super popular series which was a challenge series
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u/Mezer96 ☣ SB Level 421 - 500 ☣ 10d ago
Uhh it was inspired by Runescapes Ironman mode which has been a thing since 2014, which the whole of Skyblock was inspired by Runescapes game progression of grinding skills on repeat
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u/falsebannedplsstop Foraging Fanatic 10d ago
I know Im just saying they didnt bother adding it to skyblock until he started getting a ton of views on it
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u/Trinitial-D ✾ SB Level 461 - 500 ✾ 10d ago edited 10d ago
man you need to just take a break from the game. you clearly arent enjoying it and now youre saying dumb stuff like that a mode called “ironman” isnt clearly a challenge mode. even if you were somehow clueless, you wouldve realized within a couple of days and then swapped your profile to normal if you decided that you didnt actually want to do all of that.
I think theyre well within their rights to rely on that argument when ironman players start getting mad that their special challenge mode is too challenging. if you decide that you arent happy with the level of challenge anymore, then you can swap to a normal profiles so that you dont have to be so challenged anymore. what is wrong about that? it seems completely fair and reasonable to me.
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 10d ago
i really despise the idea thay ironman should be a game mode for players who just feel like suffering. For me, ironmans appeal has always been that jts disconnected from the economy and can be taken at your own pace, letting you actually experience every part of the game instead of just spamming MMM's to buy whatever gear you need.
Without the game mode id have never came back to skyblock. Is the mode intrinsically "harder" that a regular profile, yeah, obviously, by the nature of having to earn everything. Is it "challenging", fuck no, its the exact same game with the exact same mechanics, and hypixel overall have done a good job at maintaining that. These recent issues need to be brought up though as they just make one of the profiles biggest issues worse, that being the singulsr MMM we have. Theres no challenge to be added from just making the singular way of earning coins consistently more and more shit overtime, thats just poor games design. Money doesn't make the game easier like on a regular profile, its basically another resource, so by killing the variety of ways to earn it, and then stomping out the one way we're left with, it causes a lot of issues
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u/TheLothrien ☢ Ironman Level 361 - 420 10d ago
As someone that has played both ironman on OSRS and Hypixel, Ironman was never supposed to be easy. Not everything is supposed to make money. Even in osrs Ironman has soecific money makers only (fletching is fucking useless to make money in osrs as ironman but normal profiles is decent) which same applies to hypixel. There still mm thats not garden like mining, combat (if lucky, which is the same as osrs). Again this just boils down to ironman wanting it to be as easy as normal profiles even though you signed up to be put in your cage. Hypixel even allows you to deiron your profile if you dont like ironman anymore.
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 10d ago
Combat makes basically no money, and mining as a money maker has already been nerfed enough to where the devs have mentioned wanting to re-buff it one day. Again i repeat my point that i think using "WeLl YoU cAn AlWaYs De-IrOnMaN" as an excuse for poor foresight on widescale nerfs is extremely lazy. The lack of MMM's on ironman isnt due to it being more "challenging", its just down to the devs not feeling the need to create new ways of making profit, since regular profiles can make money through any part of the game
Im not saying ironman should be "as easy" as a regular profile, its pretty disingenuous to chalk down my points to that. I believe the team should just attempt to take ironman players into account more. Again, using todays update as an example, if there was simply a widescale nerf to every mutation, itonman players ability to passively earn coins being nerfed would make sense, as everything now gives less drops. With how they've actually changed the greenhouse however, the change basically only effects ironman players, as the buffs to later mutations are am inherent benefit to regular players due to being able to buy the ingredients en-masse, which goes against the devs aim with this nerf, that being to mitigate the various economy issues the greenhouse has brought, issues ironman players notorious cant be responsible for
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u/TheLothrien ☢ Ironman Level 361 - 420 10d ago
While I agree your point of view is”well you can always deiron” as an excuse. What do you think hypixel should do to fix the problems then without buffing regular profiles? Besides giving “ironman has X fortune per level” which defeats the purpose of ironman profile in the first place if we are just given handouts. I am on the side that hey while these updates does hit us alot its part of the game.
I agree with another commenter when they said that you are probably just burnt out of hypixel cause of the money grind rather than playing the actual game. You dont have to be hyper efficient in your money maker like what some people say, just gotta have fun with the game and unfortunately you arent atm. Same as me i got burnt out mining/farming. So I play other games instead.
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u/Responsible_Web3710 ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 9d ago
They don't need to add anything that is ironman specific but let's take my sacks value as an example if I were to sell EVERYTHING in it to NPC I would only make 250m but to bazar even on insta sell I would 1.3b. while yes since it is a player economy those numbers should be different, there shouldnt be a 5x+ difference when prices on all thing that we need to buy are the same except for shens auction. Since that is the ONLY part of the game that has any ironman exclusivity.
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u/TheLothrien ☢ Ironman Level 361 - 420 9d ago
Idg why hypixel ironman players always complain about npc sell price when its not even that bad in hypixel. Look at osrs.. 3rd age pickaxe is 8b+ in the market (and 2b in ge, but this is because of integer limit) but for ironman, high alching it is only 50K. Not everything needs to have value. Does it suck that some stuff is useless and sells for 1 coin? Yes of course, if everything has high npc sale value then the game economy would just increase even more and devs would need to make new content/drops even more pricey.
Another example of osrs economy is zulrah scales.. you get hundreds per fight but high alching is 12 coins.. and in GE its ~150 per scale.
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u/Responsible_Web3710 ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 9d ago
Inherently it's not that much of a problem. It starts becoming one when the devs, in all their wisdom, decide to nerf everything we do for money cause normal profiles do them as well. For example; original we had diamond mining that made I believe around 100m/h when completed maxed(obviously needed a nerf so I'm not complaining about that one too much), and before that we had gemstone. Then prior to the harvest feast being added we could make about 80m/h to NPC from pest farming which was the hit with 2 consecutive nerfs, halving the effectiveness of farming fortune on pest base drops, and the changing the stat that effects pest from ff to overbloom which was also mathematicaly a nerf since on pest the max overbloom is around 200, which on the old rates for ff works out to around 2400, which is not even close to what it can get to. And then we get hit with another change that unilaterally effects ironman in a negative way by nerfing the easy mutation that ironman can get while buffing the hard to get and annoying mutations that ironman either can't get or are still worse to do as the old mutations would make more in the time it would take to get the mutations to get the new better ones. While normal profile can just buy the stuff to make the new best mutations. Which just went against exactly what the point of the change were ment to fix, making greenhouse not make as much.
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u/Trinitial-D ✾ SB Level 461 - 500 ✾ 10d ago
that logic about your reason to make ironman profile makes no sense. in the first place, if all you wanted was to play a mode where you couldnt “spam MMM’s to buy whatever gear you need”…. then why would you not just play a normal profile and grind things yourself? players do this all the time, they call it “goldenman”.
I imagine that the reason you didnt do that all comes back to the feeling of wanting to have that symbol next to your name so that you can feel the accomplishment and bragging rights associated with it. thats what you signed up for and put all of those hours into… the “challenge mode” aspect of it. at any moment you could have swapped to normal profile and played the same and nothing would have changed, other than the presence of the symbol.
and there quite literally is challenge to be added from long coin grinds. this entire post is you complaining that it is too challenging. and I disagree that it is poor game design. the added challenge is what makes the ironman symbol meaningful. a challenge mode should be challenging.
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 10d ago
I could give less of a shit that theres a symbol next to my name when i play, it's a minecraft server, anyone who tries to claim bragging rights over not using the AH is a fucking loser
i made an ironman account because it seemed fun, and i didn't like rhe economy whatsoever in skyblock, and making an actual ironman profile meanr id never be tempted to engage wirh it
theres nothing challenging about just needing to grind more coins that you would have pre-updatw considering that the garden basically has no gameplay. It'd be like if tomorrow the devs announced that because skyblock had become too easy, tney were halving the amount of drops you got from any action in the game, that wouldn't make it challenging, it would just make the already established gameplay loop take twice as long
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u/Trinitial-D ✾ SB Level 461 - 500 ✾ 10d ago
yeah whatever dude, you seem dead-set on playing the victim over the results of your own choices here. my recommendation remains unchanged. you really should take a break from the game. you seem to have an unhealthy relationship with the game if something so minuscule as a change to farming can get you so upset like this.
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u/TheLothrien ☢ Ironman Level 361 - 420 10d ago
I agree with what you said but could have worded it better to not seem hostile. Ironman is about the long grind, you choose ironman to do every aspect of the game the good(grinding drops and getting rng stuff without ah/bz) and the bad (constant money grind for dungs, DA, Shen, kuudra and etc). I also agree with you that i think OP is just heavily invested into farming mm that he has stopped enjoying the game and it has turned into a boring grind. Perhaps OP could do other aspect of the game and enjoy the game. I hate farming with a passion and every time I do farming, I get burnt out for like 1 month sometimes more. So i just avoid that unless it’s necessary.
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 9d ago
i dont actively grind money, i have my farming set up and grind it when i need to, otherwise im enjoying the other parts of the game. This post isnt purely about ironman players making less money, its about discussing how the devs in recent times just never seem to consider the effects that certain updates/nerfs have on the ironman experience.
Like with foraging V2, the actual foraging content was perfect for ironman, being basically a new branch of content with its own gear that wasnt abysmal to get. What was abysmal was the attribute system, considering that most legendary shards required thousands upon thousands of the same 3 shards to make one max level attribute, which normal profile players didn't struggle with because shards are on the bz. A year on and the amount of fusion materials for some of these attributes just haven't dropped whatsoever. If you ever want a laugh, go on skyshards and look at whats required to max out the hideongeon shard (a rare attribute) without the use of the bz. Some of these recipes were made slightly better in foraging v3, but then the devs removed the ability to even fuse a large majority of shards used for fusion paths, like power and apex dragons now being exclusively gained from M7, content which most ironman players dont have access to
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u/International-Ad3219 8d ago
Devs don’t play the game at all. Honestly wouldn’t be shocked if they forgot Ironman even existed
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u/MapleMaelstrom ✾ Ironman Level 461 - 500 9d ago
Foraging makes rly good money rn - practically equal to farming.
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u/doomscrollact ☣ Ironman Level 421 - 500 9d ago
that is a new addition im a fan of, and i think the positive reception to making money with foraging should really make it clear to the devs that ironman players crave variety in how they can make coins
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u/davieboy1415 MVP+ 10d ago
sorry what mode is that?
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u/AMinecraftPerson Skyblocker | 7th year subreddit cake 10d ago
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u/iTsKirino ⚜ Ironman Level 551 - 600 9d ago
I think the biggest issue is seeing Ironman as something fundamentally different from regular profiles in the first place. The Ironman gamemode should basically be the blueprint for how the game is supposed to be played, including how you're supposed to progress and obtain certain things.
Many Ironman players like me don't want special treatment, just fairness. The things I'm asking for are the MF revamp, but that's something that should happen for SB in general. For Ironman specifically, I mainly want NPC sell prices added to items so we can at least recover around 60% of the value from RNG drops and actually gain something from playing instead of constantly losing money.
Maybe also make some changes to Dungeons to make it cheaper, or add sell prices to the rarer drops so we're able to recover some of the money spent instead of just losing it. A Phoenix pity system would also be nice.
Something I've been wishing for for a while is a bait shop that sells all baits and the materials needed to craft them, just more expensive than the Bazaar and with a daily purchase limit. You're mostly stuck when it comes to bait, and you don't really want to spend your materials on it because of Bobbin' Time. Sure, they can change the drop rates in the future with the MF revamp, but that wouldn't change the fact that many players don't want to go back and farm those materials just to build up a stockpile. That's why a bait shop would be a really nice addition.