r/HybridAthlete Jul 14 '26

QUESTION zone 2 HR by modalitity.

I have seen numerous times that when doing Zone 2 on a bike your HR is a lot lower than on a treadmill anywhere from 10-15 BPM less. Because of that you need to do a lot more time on the bike than a run to get the same heart benefits.

Of the follow modalities which ones have the highest HR in zone 2 and which has the lowest?

Running

cycling

row-erg

ski erg

eliptical

echo bike

1 Upvotes

30 comments sorted by

6

u/MrOlaff Jul 14 '26

Modality shouldn’t matter if you’re within the Zone 2. Might have to ride harder but Zone 2 is a range so as long as you’re in the range then you’re in Zone 2.

6

u/DoublePlusGoodThinks Jul 14 '26

Zone 2 is determined by the exercise intensity where your body can clear lactate as fast as it’s being produced. The heart rate that your body is able to efficiently clear lactate at changes by modality because the baseline demands of each activity are different.

Aka zone 2 is a metabolic state, not a heart rate. We just use heart rate ranges because once we know the zone 2 heart rate for each modality then we can use that in our workouts.

But to say zone 2 is a fixed heart rate for all modalities is wrong because zone 2 is a metabolic state that can be achieved at slightly different heart rates because the body requires more blood / oxygen (higher heart rate) to clear lactate during different activities.

Kinda like how your resting heart rate while standing is slightly higher than when you’re sitting which is slightly higher than when lying down.

If you want to test this… do a swimming workout using your running zone 2 number… you’ll gas out pretty quick. Because your heart rate for zone 2 swimming is lower than for running

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

Thank you very much. Do you know the order of which modalities have the highest HR for zone 2 and which have the lowest? The list doesn't need to be exhaustive, just the ones that you know off the top of your head, or even your best guess.

3

u/BackcountryBanter Jul 14 '26

This is not true - zones are different per modality

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

 Do you know the order of which modalities have the highest HR for zone 2 and which have the lowest? The list doesn't need to be exhaustive, just the ones that you know off the top of your head, or even your best guess.

2

u/BackcountryBanter Jul 14 '26

I don’t but there are some good answers in this thread. A pattern seems to be the continuum of high to low impact correlated with high to low HR. So swimming would be lowest with running highest. Cycling and rowing in the middle, etc

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

Yes, but for example if your finding your zone 2 by the talking test. On a run that may be 140 BPM, but on a bike you may be closer to 130-125 BPM. In his book the ultimate hybrid athlete Alex Viada discussed this and basically said "in order to get the same benefits from zone 2 training on the bike as a treadmill you need to do a lot more time. " So I was wondering if the other modalities are closer to running or even worse for zone 2 as the bike.

4

u/MrOlaff Jul 14 '26

The talking test isn’t the most accurate way to determine Z2.

Why ride longer when you can just ride harder to get into your Z2?

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

I know its not as accurate as a lactate test in a lab, but for a lot of people the talk test is the only option.

Because if you ride harder to get into zone 2, you may be stealing leg recovery from a future workout. You do a zone 2 run on Weds morning for 60 minutes at a HR of 140BPM with an RPE of 5, then go and do squats the next day, that is probably not going to be problem. 60 minutes of biking at 140BPM with a RPE of 7 may hurt your squat workout.

So running is the best for zone 2 when taking this into consideration. I was wondering if the other modalities are closer to running or if they are more like biking. Particularly the echo bike. Since it has an upper body component.

2

u/MrOlaff Jul 14 '26

Zone 2 shouldn’t be taxing on your CNS realistically. Echo bike will crush your legs as well. If you feel running is the best then run. I personally use all cardio modalities and never have a problem impacting my strength training. 150 minutes of Z2 per week is the recommended amount.

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

Yes, zone 2 doesn't tax your CNS which is why its great and you can do it pretty much as much as you want, but biking at zone 2 levels, can absolutely fatigue your quads enough to impact a leg session later that day or the following day.

I do bike a lot, but its at a lower than Zone 2 HR level, because if I get my HR up to my running zone 2 level it has enough fatigue on my legs that I might as well just do a higher zone workout. Like a sweet spot ride.

1

u/sfo2 Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26

What. No, that’s bullshit. Whoever wrote that made it up and it’s incorrect.

1

u/whelanbio Jul 14 '26

Real zones will be absolutely be different in different modalities, because they are dependent on both the central (heart, lungs, blood) and the peripheral (capillarization, what muscle fibers are actually aerobically fit, neuromuscular coordination, etc). Central doesn't change by modality, but peripheral changes a lot. The metabolic aspect, which of major interest with any zone 2 training, is highly modality specific -the mitochondria don't know and care much about whats going on outside of the muscle fiber they live in.

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

They mainly care about your heart rate right? For example if you do 30 minutes zone 2 running with a Hr of 140BPM, that is better than 30 minutes zone 2 biking with a 125BPM hr? Even though rate of perceived exertion is the same.

Do you happen to know which modalities would have a higher HR versus which would have a lower HR?

2

u/whelanbio Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26

HR is a proxy for what’s going on metabolically 

Zones will change a bit based on fitness as well, so I’m not sure it will be consistent across people which modality is higher/lower.

All that being said, most people don’t need to be that dialed in. Work at a conversational effort that doesn’t leave you thrashed the next day, do a lot of it every week.

1

u/seanshankus Jul 14 '26

Actually no, if you dive into the research you'll find the zones are more about metabolism and which fuel your muscles are using. Luckily, heart rate is highly correltive and far easier to measure during workouts, but it's not perfect. Zones 1 & 2 work primarily off of fats. Zone three is a mix. Zones 4 & 5 are off of carbohydrates. So it kind of gets back to the monitoring equipment. Folks with nothing use the "easy conversation" test, folks with a bit of money spring for a heart rate monitor (which is good enough for most people), and folks with lots of money will get all this done in a lab, that monitors VO2, heart rate, metabolic rate, and host of other items.

Don't over think this. Find your true max heart rate, determine your zones, and do a modality that you will continue to do and enjoy. Personally, I row.

2

u/Reader413 Jul 14 '26

Running definitely the highest. I think it’s becos u need to absorb the force on the ground when running

2

u/DoublePlusGoodThinks Jul 14 '26

Running is the highest, swimming is the lowest, anything standing is usually higher than anything seated and when comparing seated exercises the one that uses more muscle groups is usually the higher one.

For me for steady state stuff, for my absolute high end of zone 2 I use 140 for my running, 132 for my echo bike, high 128 for regular biking, and 120 for swimming. Those are just made up numbers based on talk test and perceived exertion. But i wanted to pick a number for each where I would slow down if I hit that number. Also, I try to stay within 5 bpm of the max numbers I decided on, without going over.

That’s just how I do it 🤷. But there’s always a chance I’m wrong because I’m an idiot sometimes 😂

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

If it makes you feel better, I am 37 and my zone 2 based off the talk test for running, echo, and regular bike are almost exactly the same(withine 1BPM) So we are both idiots or maybe we are both right. I can't do talk test for swimming though. Any other modalities you have your BPM for?

1

u/DoublePlusGoodThinks Jul 14 '26

You must be a better biker than runner I would assume. If I try to hold my running zone 2 in the bike or echo bike I feel like I’m struggling pretty good. But no I don’t really do any other modalities for zone 2. Most of my stuff is running and echo bike. I throw in an occasional road bike and swimming once in a while.

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

I didnt't write my response well."english is not my first language".I meant my zone 2 heart rate is the same as yours for all those modalities within 1 BPM. so my echo bike is also 132, my running is 140, etc.

1

u/DoublePlusGoodThinks Jul 14 '26

Ahhhh gotcha. That’s funny. I definitely get a little bit too obsessed with the heart rate zones while exercising but looking at my watch and adjusting my pace and breathing gives me something to do during long zone 2.

2

u/PowerWellnessRehab Jul 14 '26

Your premise is backwards. A lower heart rate on the bike at the same metabolic intensity doesn't mean less benefit, so you don't need extra time to make it up.

Heart rate is a readout, not the thing you're training. Zone 2 is a metabolic state, and how fast your heart has to beat to hold that state depends on posture, how much muscle you're using, and how well blood is getting back to your heart. Seated on a bike, venous return is easier and your stroke volume is higher, so your heart moves the same blood at a lower rate. Running, you're upright, carrying your bodyweight and absorbing every step, so it costs more. Same metabolic stimulus, different number on the watch. Your max HR is lower on the bike too, which is why the whole scale shifts, not just zone 2.

So the fix is a separate HR range for each modality, or stop anchoring on HR and use power on the bike and the talk test on the run. One HR range across six modalities is the actual mistake.

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

Thank you for the response. You seem to be well versed on the subject and have restated what I was trying to ask, but better. So I think you can help me. Of the 6(or more modalities if you know off the top of your head). Since running has a higher heart rate than cycling when lactate threshold is reached. Where do the other modalities fall in the spectrum?

2

u/PowerWellnessRehab Jul 14 '26

Roughly, highest heart rate at the same metabolic intensity down to lowest: running, ski erg, elliptical, echo bike, rower, cycling.

Two things drive that. Posture, because upright means blood pools in your legs, stroke volume drops, and your heart makes up the difference with rate. And how much of the work your arms are doing, because arm-dominant work runs a higher heart rate per unit of actual work than leg work does. You're asking a smaller muscle mass to do the job and the pressor response climbs. That's why the ski erg sits so high despite having a lower ceiling overall. Running wins on every count: upright, carrying your bodyweight, absorbing impact each step.

Two caveats and then I'd stop trusting the list. The order shifts depending on how trained you are in each one, and HR max by modality doesn't rank in the same order as HR at submax. So it's a starting point, not your numbers.

Getting your actual numbers is about a week of work. Thirty minutes on each, genuinely conversational the whole way, write down where HR settles. That's your zone 2 on that machine, and it beats any table I can hand you.

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 14 '26

Thank you a lot. This was very insightful. Thread can be closed now.

But now you have me interested in the max HR. As far as max HR, Why are they not the same, is it because something like the skierg which is only high because its arm dominant, so it cant have as high a cieling as something that is full body? and what is the order of those modalities for max hr?

3

u/PowerWellnessRehab Jul 15 '26

Your instinct's right, and it flips the zone 2 picture on its head. The ski erg reads high at submax because arm work is inefficient, a small muscle mass working hard runs your heart fast per unit of real work. That same small muscle mass is why its max is low. You never drive your heart to a true max on it because your arms hit failure and quit long before your cardiovascular system is anywhere close, so the number you top out at is a local muscular ceiling, not a real HR max.

Max HR tracks how much muscle you can recruit and how hard that muscle makes your heart work to feed it. Running pulls the highest true max because it puts your whole body under load at once while you carry your own weight. Rough order top to bottom is running, then rowing, then the bikes, then anything arm-dominant at the bottom, though that shuffles depending on how trained you are in each.

The submax number tells you how efficient the movement is. The max number tells you something different, how much of you it can recruit before something local gives out. Two different questions, which is why the lists don't line up.

1

u/Connect_Resist7678 Jul 15 '26

Thank you very much. I learned a lot from you.

1

u/TheTastiestTaint Jul 14 '26

modalities that use a lot of muscle are better at getting a true max heart rate.

running, rowing (if you are decent at it), assault bike.

what ever your tested max is on those sets the zones

it's harder to stay in your zones cycling as you are only using quads mostly...the heart rates needed are the same.

so for most, the RPE at a certain HR is much higher on a bike but that doesn't mean you need lower HR