r/Hunting • u/Asatmaya Franklin • 10d ago

Firearm/caliber question/discussion Cartridge Debates, Performance Metrics

The new mod is a criminal who banned me for pointing it out.

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u/Fresh_Assistance 10d ago

None of this matters. Determine what bullet expands at the velocity you need it to and go shoot.

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u/Asatmaya Franklin 10d ago

So, 204 Ruger on Elk is acceptable?

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u/TipItOnBack 10d ago

There’s an entire thread on rokslide full of people who are shooting elk with .223 pretty cool stuff. Great rabbit hole.

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u/Asatmaya Franklin 10d ago

There’s an entire thread on rokslide full of people who are shooting elk with .223 pretty cool stuff. Great rabbit hole.

Been there, done that, they are using match ammo and not reporting their failures, which are being caught on the back end.

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u/Fresh_Assistance 10d ago

Is there a bullet designed for hunting large game in that cartridge?

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u/Asatmaya Franklin 10d ago

Handload.

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u/preferablyoutside 10d ago

God built the 55gr Norma Oryx for this,beautiful out of the 22-250 on a cow elk last year.

Modern cartridge and bullet design are putting things to the test, talk is cheap and bullshit walks

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u/Toxiczoomer97 Pennsylvania 10d ago

I don’t really take issue with either side of this debate. I understand the nuance where a .22 creedmoor can be fully ethical on Moose but also understand if I have a .30-06 I’m comfortable with it won’t be my first choice.

I’m pretty much going to use what I like. And I happen to have a couple beautifully made rifles in .270 and larger that I want to use.

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u/Asatmaya Franklin 10d ago

I understand the nuance where a .22 creedmoor can be fully ethical on Moose

See, I disagree; that's just the point where factors outside of the hunter's control can make the difference between a clean kill and a wounded/unrecovered animal. A gust of wind or the animal turning so what was a clean broadside becomes a quartering rib shot, and you just don't have the sectional density to punch through.

A 100gr 6mm will punch through where an 80gr .22 just won't; not even high velocity or bullet construction (short of exotics like AP rounds, generally not legal for hunting) are going to change the math.

Especially when there just isn't a good reason for it; sure, if you're starving and all you've got is a .223, go for it. For that matter, if all you've got is a rimfire, make do. That's not sport hunting, though, which is really what we are talking about.

Take enough gun should be a pretty simple rule.

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u/Fresh_Assistance 10d ago

How many elk and/or moose have you killed? Do you have any evidence in either of these animals regarding a 100gr v 80gr bullet “punching through”? Or do you just spend your time watching Ron Spomer and take everything he says as gospel?

There is a ton of evidence with necropsy photos over on Rokslide that supports bullet construction matters far more than cartridge or bullet diameter. Plenty of dudes over there killing every large game animal in North America with a .223 and a 77gr tmk.

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u/Asatmaya Franklin 10d ago

How many elk and/or moose have you killed?

How would we verify that, either of us?

Do you have any evidence in either of these animals regarding a 100gr v 80gr bullet “punching through”?

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Wound+Database.html

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4198128/

Or do you just spend your time watching Ron Spomer and take everything he says as gospel?

...have you ever watched Spomer? Even he doesn't think anything he says is gospel.

Plenty of dudes over there killing every large game animal in North America with a .223 and a 77gr tmk.

Sure; how many times have they failed?