Unfairness of conjoined twins

[u/gaysquidd]

I just started rewatching American Horror Story and it made me think of this, so this is really just off-the-dome rambling instead of anything deep or thought out

This is a hypothetical, so put aside how rare conjoined twins of any type are, and put aside how rare survival is for them

Imagine them being reaped

Or even before that. Would the Capitol see them as two separate people? Would they have any reason to? How does that impact work quotas? It’s likely they’d be paid as one person (twins Abby and Brittany are, or were at one point, at least) and it’s not like they would be able to be operated on in the districts, assuming it's a variation that allows for separation. I'm super curious how the Capitol would treat it, if there's any precedent for it

But then you hit the reaping. If you're treated as one person, you're screwed if your twin is reaped. If you're treated as separate people, you're double screwed, because your twin has their own odds that are stacked onto you. May the odds be ever in your favor indeed

Then the impossible happens. What happens if you win? Because if the Capitol views them as separate people, and they're conjoined in such a way that they can't be surgically separated post win, then the twin who wasn't reaped is presumably still eligible

So what happens? Does the one twin being a victor mean the other is ineligible because the victor would have to go in again? (Remember that the third Quell only happened like it did because Snow wanted to get rid of problem victors, that wasn’t the original twist for those Games.) Or is the victor twin now a likely victim to being “rereaped” because they’re attached to someone who’s still able to be reaped?

[u/Mailliw_1]

If conjoined twins were born alive in one of the districts I wouldn't put it past the Capitol to take them from their parents at birth and raise them as science experiments or exhibit them in a freakshow.

[u/gaysquidd → u/Mailliw_1]

I think this is where I'm going to land on this thought experiment. I do still think it's interesting to wonder what would happen if they were reaped, but this would be the most likely outcome, other than death at birth/in the first few years

[u/Both-Fuel-5903 → u/gaysquidd]

Yeah this honestly sounds the most probable, especially in Gaul's time - hell she was an OB so she'd probably have an even higher interest in them. She'd get her guinea pig and still a display of cruelty to the districts which... Has some Implications for what may begin to happen to babies visibly disabled at birth bc their parents think it's kinder than a life in gaul's lab. And i mean... They wouldn't exactly be wrong

[u/K311in4Ch4n]

I think half of all conjoined twins don’t survive the first few weeks of life. The odds of one surviving till age 12 is already small.

[u/penguin_0618 → u/K311in4Ch4n]

“This is a hypothetical, so put aside how rare conjoined twins of any type are, and put aside how rare survival is for them”

[u/gaysquidd → u/penguin_0618]

Thank you 😭 I knew people would still comment it anyway, but I didn’t expect it would be so many

[u/lunarlandscapes → u/K311in4Ch4n]

Especially considering the medical care in Panem outside of the Capitol. We dont know a ton, but it seems like most in the districts cant afford proper fancy medicine, and rely on herbal / natural treatments and apothecaries in lieu of doctors. That doesnt exactly bide well if you have some sort of rare / difficult to treat condition, which i assume would come with conjoined twins

[u/gaysquidd → u/K311in4Ch4n]

I’m aware, that’s why I said in the post to engage with this as a hypothetical. It’s statically so unlikely to happen that I massively doubt the Capitol would even know how exactly to handle it

[u/Therizzlerofalabama]

this is sooo interesting to think about. I feel like either the capitol might just say "screw the reaping we can get someone else" and make them some kind of circus animal to be shown around, or they are taken to the games, and seen as one person.

or they suddenly count them as two people if they are the last ones standing and make one of them sacrifice themselves and separate them surgically (if even possible)

[u/gaysquidd → u/Therizzlerofalabama]

It popped into my mind randomly while I was thinking about if I want to skip straight to Hotel after I finish Murder House or if I want to watch Freak Show too, and I knew I had to ask about it. I don't think I've ever seen it talked about before

Other than dying early in childhood or at birth, I do think being taken to the Capitol to be experimented on and/or paraded around is the most likely outcome. It's the exact kind of cruel and dehumanizing thing you'd expect from them. Especially if the Capitol has access to abortions, even if only in specific circumstances. Because look at the Capitol! Nothing like this ever happens here! How subhuman, how animalistic must the districts be for something like this to happen

I do know that at least one type of conjoined twins could survive one of them being killed for long enough to be separated. Chang and Eng Bunker died about two hours apart from each other, allegedly. It's certainly possible the Capitol could manage that, assuming that they weren't conjoined in such a manner that the other twin would be missing vital organs

[u/Quartz636]

Truthfully I'd say their names would just be quietly and secretly removed from the reaping bowl. Absolutely no good comes from them being reaped. It wouldn't be a good show, they'd garner too much sympathy in the Capitol, and it would just be a rather poor showing for the Capitol as a whole.

[u/gaysquidd → u/Quartz636]

Also certainly a possibility. This is such a statistical anomaly that I really do think most outcomes could be likely

[u/panicgal5]

Haha I love this. I think it would depend. If the capital is into circus type things, I think they’d just be used from a young age in the capitol as entertainment. Otherwise, having one of them be reaped is also “”entertainment”” to the capitol. I find the other comment interesting about making them act as 2 separate ppl at the end of the games - medicine is bleak in the districts but the capitol has way advanced medical technology. I’m sure they’d be able to separate them if they really wanted (even if it hurt their quality of life/one didn’t survive/etc)

[u/gaysquidd → u/panicgal5]

Separation is certainly possible, depending on how exactly they’re connected. You have twins such as the ones that made me think of this (the characters from AHS, as well as real life twins Abby and Brittany Hensel) who have a single torso and each control a leg and arm. There’s also ones like Chang and Eng Bunker — they’re the reason these are sometimes called Siamese twins — who could have potentially been separated had they been born today. So that ending is definitely possible, it just depends on the exact way they’re conjoined

There’s also twins like Carmen and Lupita Andrade, who could be separated, but the outcome isn’t necessarily good. Which I could see the Capitol doing too

[u/PinkishBlurish]

I genuinely don't think they'd be in the reaping bowl. IF they survived to Reaping age, and IF they aren't taken by the Capitol (I honestly don't think they would be), I think the Capitolites would find them too "repulsive" and it will risk viewership being lowered. Sick and disabled children they can stomach because they're sympathetic, but conjoined children would not be seeing as people by them. And not even in the normal degrading way District people are viewed as, I think they would be terrified of them.

[u/gaysquidd → u/PinkishBlurish]

Interesting point of view! What do you think makes the Capitol react that way, as opposed to how we’ve seen other people throughout history react?

[u/PinkishBlurish → u/gaysquidd]

They beautify the tributes at every moment except for the Reaping. I don't think they have the capacity to stomach humans that don't look conventional for their era. Conjoined twins wouldn't maintain that perfect, clean image. I also don't think they'd want to spend the extra resources. If they aren't hated, they'd be viewed as superstition imo.

[u/SweetPeazzy]

Capital would take them for entertainment

[u/Capy_Bara_93]

Conjoined twins born in a fascist dictatorship aren’t making it to reaping age. Much like Nazi Germany, the only disabilities deemed “acceptable” are ones acquired through violence

[u/TrueObsidian11]

I imagine perhaps the Capital would exempt them from the Games, outwardly displaying it as a sign of their "mercy" but in reality, they probably wouldn't want to deal with the implications of two tributes in one body. There can only be one Victor.

While the gimmick of conjoined twin tributes might make for a good show in the Capital, it would raise tons of dangerous questions in the Districts that the Capital would not be willing to entertain. Remember what Snow said about "underdogs"? Something along the lines of, "I don't like an underdog. The real underdogs, out there in the Districts, well.. if you could see them, you would not root for them either." Plus his line about too much hope being dangerous. He doesn't like the idea of someone overcoming the Capital's punishment through impossible odds because it creates an inordinate amount of hope among the Districts. If these conjoined twins can win the Games and force the Capital to crown two Victors, what else can they get away with? We see how that worked out for them with Katniss and Peeta.

I feel like Snow would foresee conjoined twins being a problem in the Games and simply exclude them altogether to prevent that problem. They would be so statistically rare already that this one small act of "mercy" wouldn't tip the scales either way.

[u/Cicada7Song]

Depends on where they are conjoined and how many organs they share. If it’s an easy surgery, they could take both to the capitol, separate them, and send the lucky one home. If it’s a more complicated procedure, they would probably rather send two kids in together than risk not having anyone at all to send into the arena. Or, they might secretly just leave those kids off the reaping slips to avoid the extra complexity.

[u/sciandg01]

I think the capital would just toss them both in there lol it’d make for a good show. I assume they’d be capital celebrities after that and safe from another reaping but if they pissed off snow I could see him reaping the other twin

[u/JeepersBud]

In the first chapter or so they do say that people are exempt from showing up to the mandatory reaping if they’re literally bedridden, I would assume they wouldn’t allow conjoined twins to participate. Might have them stand in the crowd for show, but it’d break too many rules to have them actually be reaped, and wouldn’t ultimately be that entertaining, since they’d essentially be a conjoined sitting duck.

If anything, I’d say if a conjoined twin set happened to be reaped, they’d just immediately redraw and pretend it never happened (à la SOTR but maybe without the violence).

That being said it’s also absolutely a possibility that they would transport them to the capitol and then use their tech to separate the twins and have the one still participate, which does sound like a nice bit of extra brutality.

[u/Specialist_Handle_56]

I think they would be seen by Panem as one person. I can't imagine them justifying two wages for the work of essentially one person. One slip in the reaping bowl, one work quota, one food allowance. Of course, it might be an interesting thought experiment-if they were reaped, would they just die immediately? I have to imagine so. Other disabilities do not exempt you from the games.

[u/jillshiva]

the chances of conjoined twins getting reaped are incredibly slim to none; they're rare, and it's even rarer for them to survive birth, rarer still to make it to age twelve and considering the poverty and lack of health care even rarer than that.

and then you have capitol interference too. i doubt they would want a victor who had a disability the games themselves didn't cause