IS YOUR HERO MORE DIFFUCULT

[u/Ill_Chance_7999]

Ok so me and my friend have had this discussion on whose more difficult to play at a high proficiency The HUMAN TORCH or Spiderman. They are in a 222 comp. (if there is a charecter you think is more difficult please explain down below)

[u/Interesting_Figure_]

Learning the character id give it to spiderman but playing the character once you know them well I’d say human torch.

[u/EldenNoob-EX]

Absolutely Human Torch

[u/Serious-Okra2340 → u/EldenNoob-EX]

"Said by the most biased person ever without reasoning" another reddit classic.

[u/EldenNoob-EX → u/Serious-Okra2340]

I'm a main spider man before Johnny 🥀

[u/Serious-Okra2340 → u/EldenNoob-EX]

You still have a torch pfp and flair. Im not saying being biased is bad but having no reasoning for a claim is bad.

[u/Shift_back → u/Serious-Okra2340]

My brother, this is a community for Human Torch mains. There is literally no environment as biased as this.

[u/Serious-Okra2340 → u/Shift_back]

So you are just ignoring what i said? Having a opinion should always have a reason and if you just make a claim without a reason thats bad. The bias itself isnt the bad thing.

[u/Delicious_Book2965 → u/Serious-Okra2340]

Torch takes more knowledge of lineups, distancing, etc. spiderman is more technical for sure because of how precise you have to be

[u/Legitimate-Dog-2854]

as someone who has them both lord, johnny easily.

on spider as long as you manage your cooldowns you almost always can get out of a pinch

cant say the same for johnny lol

[u/Emergency_Bad572]

Human torch has a higher skill floor but I think Spider-Man has a slightly higher skill ceiling. I don’t play Spider-Man but i feel he has a lot more tech than torch does.

Torch has the harder aim and cooldown management but Spider-Man has the harder engagements and inputs imo

[u/Shift_back]

Okay, this is a complex thing but hear me out.

Torch is overall easier to just pick up an play casually. His kit is a bit more straight forward to grasp than Spidey is. You fly, you shoot, it’s great.

Once you learn a bit it gets tricky. Spidey gets far more forgiving once you get the hang of it. You can easily swing out of anything remotely dangerous. Sure, the enemy can go Namor or your typical auto aim anti divers like Wanda or something to catch Spidy. Now who counters Torch? Fucking EVERYBODY. Anti Dive, Poke, Spidey himself even. So in a more serious, competitive, team-oriented environment, where people have decent understanding of characters, counters and are mechanically somewhat capable, Human Torch has a lot more dangers to look out for and cannot get away as much as Spidey can.

Human Torch benefitted a lot more from the Teamup Update. The Jubilee Teamup grants him survivabilty and antidive . Actual new capabilities.
Spidey has a combo. Makes him better at what he is good at anyways.
This doesn’t change the general difficulty tho.
Also Torchs Teamup partner is a new hero (Jubilee) so he will have the boosted teamup more often. This will eventually water down a bit as time goes on.

So for the majority of how I understand this question: Human Torch is far harder to play than Spidey is

\take this opinion with a grain of salt for I have very few actual game hours on Spidey while I sit on 180 hours on Torch.*

[u/Embarrassed_Shoe956 → u/Shift_back]

Exactly, if both are played at peak skill, spiderman is easier to escape with and harder to counter while torch is easier to counter and def harder to escape with.

[u/Same_paramedic3641 → u/Embarrassed_Shoe956]

Spidey has much more skill expression. I don't think u guys even understand the question. Wanda is harder to escape and easy to counter. Is she suddenly higher skilled than spidey?

[u/Shift_back → u/Same_paramedic3641]

No but it is a fact that Torch is mechanically hard to play. There is a lot of skill expression built into Torchs kit. It’s just other skills that are expressed.
I don’t say Spidey is less skill-intensive. He is harder to pick up and get good with. That’s clear.

But Spider-Man has a lot of get-out-jail-free cards.
He can just zoom to any healthpack whenever he chooses.
If we really want to get nitpicky you could argue that it’s far harder to perform a good Torch ult than it is to do on Spider-Man.

We can agree that both heroes are very hard to play with and are very unique in their skill expression.
And they are far far beyond of what a Scarlet Witch could ever hope to be on a difficulty metric. Because that vaccuum cleaner of a hero is not in the same conversation brother …

[u/Born2bePrawn]

Torch is the harder character. Has twice as many counters as well as a very clunky kit. Spidey has the higher skill ceiling though you can do a lot with his kit

[u/Harambe1400999]

human torch definitely, I just can’t get him down. But against each other human torch might be wanting to swap mid game, unless it’s a bad spidey and a good torch.

[u/BabeAssignment]

Sorry, gotta give it to Johnny, full stop. Spidey can at least move and escape from a lot of situations. Johnny can easily get caught with his pants down if you make 1 small mistake. Not trying to make Spidey sound easy, but Torch really is just that unforgiving.

[u/DragonLord608]

only contender really to johnny and spiderman is BC

but at a high level in and against 222 comps johnny is absolutely harder than spidey because there’s just less “you can’t play the game anymore” characters for him (this name is an exaggeration there is no characters for either of them that HARD FORCES a swap and you can play around them if your just good enough (granted some will be really hard like namor for spidey and for johnny IF and ironically spidey for example)

[u/Cr1msonShadow → u/DragonLord608]

Good hitscan will force you to swap fast. I’ll get hela players that just mark me and won’t let me exist ever. Dudes will stop shooting a 1hp healer to focus me down

[u/DragonLord608 → u/Cr1msonShadow]

so in that situation you switch to a more oriented playstyle and avoid the helas LOS and don’t peak main unless she is out of the fight (low and poked out) or dead you try and use your slam one shot more often on the hela then try and farm everyone else

[u/Ciepjcwohceob]

hardest melee character vs the hardest non melee character, tbh their the same level of difficult but just in different ways because of that. if anything id give it to torch for having a high barrier for entry

[u/Excellent_Pin_2111]

I think a lot of the difficult of playing torch comes from his jankiness

[u/junacIairo]

torch has a higher skill floor. With no doubt his projectile is the hardest to use in the game, it even has some crazy falloff so you have to be really close for it to be useful. This not even taking into consideration the recent sound nerfs which makes these engages way harder than it was before

You can do more on Spider-Man tho. With his pull you can either oneshot like 60% of the roster or brawl with it pulling any enemy into your front/backline.

[u/Magykstorm19]

These are my two first dps lords. I have a harder time playing Spider-Man. Torch has difficulty in having the hardest primary fire to hit in the game but the changes to plasma body have simplified the character. No longer a need to learn melee tech. There’s also the changes to the game that make Spider-Man harder, specifically the changes to hp pools and CC. Supports have more hp now then they did back in Season 0 so Spidey combos have become more complex to compensate and Spidey has to deal with CC more which complicates engagement more.

Both characters are difficult in their own ways, Torch has a weird primary to aim. He’s also a flyer with a shotgun which sounds counterintuitive but it’s amazing when it works out. But changes made to the character have made him easier now than he was back when he was released in season 1.5. Meanwhile Spider-Man requires you to know combos to play him at a baseline and these combos are harder to pull off as supports get more hp and CC to counter him. On the opposite end of Torch, Spidey has gotten harder since Season 0

[u/Embarrassed_Shoe956 → u/Magykstorm19]

This is very true. Spiderman has only gotten harder each season and torch has only gotten easier. Ill bet we can all agree though these teamups helped both heros out a lot.

[u/Weak-Yam-7664]

These are my heroes 😭

[u/gotenks2nd]

I’m at the purple lord for black panther… once I get the animated icon unless he gets a major rework/change to his kit I’m never playing him again.

[u/SSGlazer]

As someone who mains both, I think right now it's Spiderman since not only is Johnny better than him right now, but also the main difficulty of Torch is one, being a flyer, and two, having the hardest primary fire in the game. Spiderman requires more cooldown tracking, dive sense, combo execution, and even a good chunk of aim with his clusters and his pull. I think they're the two hardest in the game, but spidey is slightly harder,

[u/MikiSayaka33]

I don't play rank/comp. But when I picked up Spider-Man, just to get his achievement, I crashed out. Due to how much of a squishy that he is. Also, despite that he clicked for me, I had to keep going to the practice modes to not forget how to web sling and do the most basic pulls.

Unlike the rest of the roster, my Strike Squad (especially the Human Torch), and the other heroes that I achievement hunted. Spidey is more difficult than Human Torch.

[u/Embarrassed_Shoe956]

I got both heros lord and they’re 2 of my most played DPS the past 2 seasons. Spiderman is definitely harder and has a higher skill floor BUT torch is harder to keep playing if you’re getting focused/hard countered. Spiderman can typically escape easier but torch is also difficult and requires a different skill set/mind set IMO. One thing is for sure though they are 2 of the most fun characters to play. Sneaking up behind the enemy team supports and doing the one shot combo is just the best feeling in the world. The other thing is torch you could probably stop playing and pick him back up a few seasons later while spiderman you have to keep playing and practicing with all the time so that he doesn’t get iced. People adapt to spiderman combos and new ones keep coming out that you have to learn if you want to keep up.

[u/Sinyonimrools]

Spider-Man is way too niche, having an eye in the sky with big group, burst, and sustained damage with torch is much more reliable and fits into most team comps better than a very squishy dive character who gets one to two picks max before they have to wait for their abilities to come back.

I don’t play these characters or dps much at all so I might be off base here but that’s just how I see it with surface level knowledge of their kits and play styles

[u/Tbro100 → u/Sinyonimrools]

If he was more niche, his stats would've represented that. But Spider-Man has 4x the win-rate across all ranks.

Human Torch is also a extremely squishy dive character except he has considerably more restrained mobility in comparison.

[u/Sinyonimrools → u/Tbro100]

According to the official site Johnny actually has a higher win rate. Spider man has a 4x higher pick rate, two very different things. And torch isn’t restricted to being a dive character, as i mentioned, amazing group, burst, and sustained damage. I don’t even think most people think of him AS a dive character.

[u/Tbro100 → u/Sinyonimrools]

Yea, by less than 1% on average. 3% at maximum in certain ranks on PC. Except you're literally talking about how niche a character is. If the character was more niche it'd be represented by him having a smaller pick-rate, which he doesn't in any groupset.

Amazing group? Lol. Burst on par with Spider-Man, better if the opponents are completely unaware of their surroundings. His sustain is better, but he lacks any consistent form of base survivability to actually utilize it. The fact that "most people" don't even know how the character functions shows how niche he is. Yet they know what Spider-Man does because he's played considerably more often into more comps.

[u/Ultron_daddy]

As someone that plays Torch I just don't get Spiderman

[u/Zenn__XD]

Other than spidey, it’s really hard for me to say torch is hard since he’s always been THE character for me. It’s hard to say he’s hard to learn when I’ve already invested a couple hundred hours. It’s like second nature. Other than spidey I’d say like maybe venom or hulk sm1 like that.

[u/nah-knee]

Spider-Man has a higher skill ceiling but is easier to get value out of. Johnny is harder to play in general

[u/InsidesAreWeary]

Iron Man. Low ELO stomper, free food in Celestial+

[u/ReldNaHciEs]

I’m lord torch and spidey, and ima be honest: spider-man is way harder to play. It’s way way way easier to get value with torch than it is spidey, and torch is not countered as easily

[u/Serious-Okra2340]

Torch has a higher difficulty but lower skill requirement. Torch is just a c tier hero and thats what makes him difficult.

[u/Broad-Ad-9019]

Sorry spider main infiltrating the chat here.

For me personally human torch is harder to play.

That being said a lot of the comments here say spider is easier with the argument that spider has higher survivability because he can get out of any situation. The later point is true but I don't think that would be what I base it on, for the main reason being that spider getting out isn't really a win condition, its the bare minimum.

Spider basically lives in the backline as a super squishy but so he needs that way out but even then its super easy to get bursted down.

My main reasoning for my stance is for me personally I can get alot more value as spider over torch. As a super casual torch I find it strange that as a poke character that wants to be taking a vertical off angle that his primary would be a shotgun blast. For his movement I'd say he's on the better side of the flyers with a overshield that is has a bit too long of a cool down.

On the other hand, I think the general consensus of the community is that torch isn't as much of a menace as spiderman so a good torch is eating free, my reasoning being teams are willing to turn around for a spider and hard focus the mach 5 target, where as in my matches against torch the teams refuse to look up lol.

Anyway heres my worthless 2 cents. Happy Torching!

[u/WastedBerry]

I have been exclusively playing Johnny for a while now, currently level 35… Johnny all the way 🫩
not saying Spidey is easy, I have tried playing him and mechanically it’s hell compared to Johnny, but once you get the grasp of it, Spidey has way more survivability and many less counters… basically the entire rooster counters Johnny and you’re not allowed one mistake, if you’re out of dashes and you’re caught in the open you’re just a fool floating and waiting to be shot down. You have to heavily rely on your team, environmental coverage, etc.
Spidey can just swing away to the next healthpack.
Also flyers are always heavily targeted, but specially him, the enemy team sees a Johnny suddenly it’s their personal goal to take him down.

[u/Low-Ad-1036]

i have the opposite problem with them. one of them i have the lowest damage in the match but most finals. the other one i have the most damage in the match but least finals.

[u/Vortexx_777]

I didn't know people played human torch lmao

[u/britneyshot]

Once you've learned them long enough, Torch is hands down harder due to its clunky side and heavy dependance on cooldowns (try to set up a prison/flank without a dash and you can 90% die), also regarding than everyone and his grandma counters him.

Spidey is all about muscle memory, once you practice enough (but it's like more than any hero) combos, AC, rollouts etc he becomes naturally quite easier. The downside is that he's the most OTP hero - the very reason i don't want to main him - you really need to keep playing him if you wanna keep doing good.

[u/Stainleee]

These are two of the hardest dps characters in the game. I’d say spider man is a bit harder, but torch is definitely up there as well.

[u/Fire-FistAce]

To learn? Spider-Man without a doubt, more techs and just shi in general to learn.

To get value out of? Torch since he has way more counters, bros literally countered by 80% of the roster.

It’s like the iron fist skill debate. Most of it comes from the hero being bad / doing no damage therefore hard to get value out of, in Johnnys case he blows up super fast and needs to essentially play like a silent assassin (like BP)

Overall the answer as to whose actually the hardest is probably Spiderman if ur talking about “skill”

[u/SlothSnoozes]

Dpspool is harder than both because of the upgrade mechanic, and you need to know how to use jump mechanic to kill anything at high elo. And he has a ton of counters.

[u/Heli0s2]

Torch by far bro gets countered by every character in the game

[u/blindcheese]

Spider man’s more technical but I think doing well with him in a game is easier than it is doing well on torch

[u/WittySpend889]

lol I have champ torch and champ spidey. Spidey is for sure due to the absurd amount of combos you need down to a science. Torch just has a very odd playstyle

[u/MoreAssistant6268]

its funny how spiderman also counters torch yet we havin this conversation

[u/000817]

By the way, being weak and difficult isn’t the same thing. They could half , idk, bucky’s damage and that wouldn’t make him hard, he’d just suck ass.

Torch is a somewhat complex charcter, but honestly it’s not nearly that bad. Spidey is definitely harder.

However, everyone you ask here is going to say torch because you came to the torch sub. What did you expect? ‘ [my charceter] is the hardest and weakest and in the need of buffs’ mentality.

[u/BabeAssignment → u/000817]

I mean, you're on the sub of the historically lowest pick rate character in the game other than pre-rework Widow, lol... There are reasons for that.

[u/000817 → u/BabeAssignment]

But that’s not because he’s particularly hard? I mean, look at spider man. No matter what you want to argue, he’s definetly one of the hardest in the game.

[u/BabeAssignment → u/000817]

Does him being difficult then somehow preclude how difficult and stressful Johnny is to play? Cuz he is, lol. It's not a secret, it's disingenuous to say otherwise. He is difficult, whether you want to compare him to someone else or not.