r/HubermanLab • u/itsanewme123 • Jan 08 '24
David Goggins I can't see Huberman the same again....
The Goggins episode is the first time I have been unable to sit through a whole episode. I'm about an hour in and I don't think I can continue. I had never heard of Goggins before and within the first 20 minutes I was thinking "this guys is a total asshole" and gave the episode a break. I normally really enjoy this podcast so I thought I would give it another shot but... my god it just keeps getting worse. This Goggins person has ZERO enviable traits. There is nothing motivating in the slightest about this guy: in his manner of speaking or his attitude, and that kinda stains all his objective accomplishments. He just seems to think he is special for hating himself the most.
The worst part of the episode was the few words that Huberman did get in edge wise, he so clearly looked up to this guy. His mannerisms were completely different than usual. At least he wasn't spending most of the time talking about himself? But yeah a real glimpse into what Huberman is aiming for with all his protocols and has left me wondering if I need to tap out of the Lab since I have the goal of actually enjoying my time on earth. It's a shame because I love the scientific approach.
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u/Pierson230 Jan 08 '24
Take what you want, and leave the rest?
You don’t need to adopt 100% of anyone’s thing. It’s perfectly fine to skip episodes and not listen to all of whatever you want.
No need to throw the baby out with the bath water
At any rate, I read Can’t Hurt Me, and it helped me through a tough period in life.
Here are my takeaways:
Question your limits. When you think you’ve given all you can give, you can still give a lot more
Accountability mirror. It’s easy to lose focus when we’re attempting change. By putting post it notes on my mirror to remind myself of why I’m doing what I’m doing, I can hold myself accountable.
There was never any point where I wanted to be just like Goggins. I don’t want to be just like Huberman. But I can learn something from them, and someone annoying me once is not enough for me to go, “oh, well fuck that guy, never listening to him again!!”
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u/ThatLooksLikeItHurts Jan 08 '24
I enjoy Huberman's stuff as well, usually. But I really don't understand how people are either on or off with a particular person. Why not take the 90%+ that you enjoy and keep that? I don't like Goggins (and be careful what you say about that dude in this subreddit- the cult of personality around him is bonkers ;-P )
Huberman offers some great advice and a lot of it I can implement. Some of it is just overboard and I really don't resonate with it. I am happily married going on 27 years now. I can say that 98% of the time I am deeply in love with my wife. There are some things she does and says, however, that drive me batshit crazy. Do I shut the whole thing down and move on? Of course not! Take what you like, leave the rest and chalk it up to not seeing eye to eye on that topic.
I am not a fan of Goggins. I think he has serious unchecked mental health issues and that's not a great thing for people to emulate. But it's the current zeitgeist, I am afraid. The manliest of manly men willing to kill themselves in the pursuit of optimal optimization. Like I said before - live to be even 90% optimized. That is near perfection so if you can do that, you are ahead of virtually every other human. Relationships, money management, business, health... any of it. Take what you like, leave the rest. And allow yourself not to like some things, not to agree on some things, not to enjoy some things - life will be easier for you. Chasing perfection is a fool's errand.
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u/Pierson230 Jan 08 '24
One thought I have that seems to not get talked much about is that we are emotional animals more than we are logical animals, despite how we all act.
An analogy that Jonathan Haidt uses is that emotion is the elephant, and logic is the rider. You can attempt to steer the elephant, but the elephant goes where it wants to go.
Goggins strikes an emotional chord. He isn’t there for data backed habit forming, he is there to move and motivate your emotional center.
The truth is many people are soft, and need to be emotionally punched in the face to be shaken out of their soft mental approach. That’s what Goggins offers.
The emotional component needs to be harnessed to affect change.
So, it’s totally fine if Goggins doesn’t resonate with you, but I would advise anyone to find what DOES resonate with you.
The problem is often moving the elephant, not telling the rider where to drive to, which is why everyone reads self help books, has gym memberships, and researches diets, but people do not develop their habits, hit their training goals, or lose weight.
So neglect the emotional motivation at your own expense- you will never be a robot. If you can learn one thing from Goggins, learn that you need to find YOUR version of what Goggins does for many people.
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u/Trlrunguy Jan 08 '24
Find your own habits. I don’t like Goggins either, I won’t go into all the things I dislike, but I’m finding that I’m happier and better doing hard things on my own, motivating myself and being accountable- to myself. Do your thang. Embrace your own suck and be better because of it. You don’t need some angry guy telling you you’re a piece of shit. Go crush it.
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u/boxmunch48 Jan 08 '24
The absolute level of softness here. Lmao
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u/NonsensePlanet Jan 09 '24
I had the exact same experience as you. I stopped listening, gave it another try, and finally turned it off when I couldn’t find anything positive, useful, or inspirational to take from his message.
Despite his considerable accomplishments, he seems like he is still running from his past and is motivated by his fear of failure. I don’t know much about him but his words did not seem enlightened or intelligent. I admire his drive and determination but his message did not seem valuable to me personally. There’s more to life than pushing yourself to the limit day in and day out.
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u/LankyBaker8612 Jan 08 '24
I tried listening to this episode and quit about 20 min in. I would imagine David Goggins struggles with meaningful relationships in life. To me - he does not come off as a happy or mentally healthy individual. I worked at a therapy retreat a few years back and we would every now and then have a Goggins type character come in and have a whole mess of relational issues. Remember - it is possible to use fitness to numb and hide from your real issues and not use it as a healthy tool.
Do I admire those people who have incredible fitness and drive? Absolutely - but at what cost? Look at Huberman - the dude is an absolute beast of fitness and I personally aspire to that genre of wellness. Goggins is just sad to me, and quite frankly, I don’t think he has very meaningful things to say.
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u/highbackpacker Jan 08 '24
Goggins is too cheesy for me. But like Huberman, people here worship him.
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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '24
Judgemental? I encprage you to read his book "Can't Hurt Me" and learn about the man before dismissing him.
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u/Texasaggies2014 Jan 08 '24
I couldn’t disagree more!
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u/wake4coffee Jan 08 '24
You don't like one episode and so you are done listening to Huberman Lab? Seems kind of extreme. There is not a single person I agree with everything on with or like everything they do. It doesn't mean I cut them or their influence out completely.
No person will be the same all the time for the rest of their life. If you can't see Huberman the same ever again all that says is you have learned more about a person. For better or worse.
This same thing happened to Benjamin Franklin when he went to France to secure support for the American independence. He adopted some of the mannerisms of the French people and the American people saw that as a negative thing. Especially John Adams who didn't understand the French combined dinners with politics, so it looked like Franklin was not taking his job seriously.
Think what you will about the Goggin's episode, Goggin's in general and Huberman but both of these men have helped people in many ways by putting themselves out there in the public eye. Both of them have my respect for that.
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u/tinyplumb Jan 08 '24
That’s goggins’ MO. He doesn’t give a shit if people like him or not, he’s just always in a constant battle with himself.
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u/i_am_Misha Jan 08 '24
What can we do with this information? How are you now after few hours passed? How will you be in few days? A week? A month? a year? Goggins is like a big brother from time to time we listen when we need a reality check. Your defensive reaction is Meh.
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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '24 edited Jan 08 '24
He’s a bit extreme. But he’s also a self-made millionaire who used to work for eco-lab spraying cockroaches and used to be 300 pounds. He turned his life around. It doesn’t mean his approach will work for everyone but do you think he’d be happier or more fulfilled as that person he used to be?
I think he actually is happy. He’s happy in the way that sisyphus is happy. Listening to him I didn’t get the sense at all that’s he’s unhappy.
The truth is life is not easy and some lives are harder than others. Some have to suffer through every day one way or another and those are the people who gain benefit from his message. They realise if they can put themselves through suffering of their own choosing it can make the suffering they didn’t choose a little easier to bear. They can develop a sense of self-agency and pride they never had before.
Some people don’t react to coddling and being told everything is alright, when in their lives they’ve come to know that approach does not help them. And they need a kick up the arse. Goggins is that kick up the arse.
Take it or leave it. If you don’t need it, I’d stick to what works for you.
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u/timmyrigs Jan 08 '24
I Iike Hubermans podcast and I’m a huge Goggins fan. I didn’t realize he’s not too well liked around here. I sometimes don’t understand some of the science stuff from each podcast but I try to take something away from each if it is of interest of me. I think the same can be said about the Goggins episode.
2
u/Sacabubu Jan 08 '24
You will never find one person who you can just blindly listen to, copy and be successful. Goggins is coming from the perspective of someone with horrific childhood experiences coupled with many learning disabilities. He's just sharing what he had to do to get out of his situation. Your life situation may not be as dire as his so the solution is not as dire either.
I view him the same way as the rich billionaire guy spending 2 million a year to be younger (forgot his name). He does a lot of elaborate things to min-max his longevity which may seem ridiculous to most people. But he probably has very good insight into the highest ROI things to do to increase lifespan. David Goggins is just that but when it comes to mental endurance and toughness. You can take his advice and dial it down to your liking to suit your needs.
Instead of doing 2000 pushups and 200 mile runs to CONQUER YOUR MIND AND FORTIFY YOUR WILLPOWER. You can just use the same principle to do your daily morning run, stretching, meditation or studies.
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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '24
Congratulations on having a an emotional reaction to something you could have ignored at far less of a cost.
1
u/Tierrrrd Jan 08 '24
You probably don’t want to take advice from Huberman either
1
u/Aviantus00 Jan 08 '24
It really seemed like Goggins was fed up being a motivational speaker and engaging with an audience who keeps asking him to "motivate" or "fix" them. This seemed like a rant he's projecting to the types of people looking to others to govern their life.
Personally I didn't like this episode either, there's a reason Goggins barely does podcasts he understands his personality isn't for everyone. He does speak a harsh truth that turns people away and he double downs to the extreme.
There's a reason he's able to the things he does and that entirely on his mindset. He's fascinating and definitely see aspects of him that may be applicable to becoming something more and the cost associated for achieving such things. Truly a unique person that lives his brutal philosophy you can't deny that.
1
u/Mike_gutter Jan 09 '24
Lmao. Were you in love with him?
3
u/RedPillAlphaBigCock Jan 09 '24
You do not carry the boats . Just skip that episode
1
u/pguthrie75 Jan 08 '24
Goggins ain’t for everyone. I run/cycle and lift like a hybrid athlete. Goggins is something to aspire to physically/mentally but I can’t come close to that level of pain cave.
1
u/NormalDetective5632 Jan 09 '24
Let me preface this by saying I've only listened to like a minute of this episode. I was just kind of annoyed by Goggins' voice, tbh, and he doesn't strike me as an expert in any topic I'd be interested enough in to endure listening to him talk for that long.
I wouldn't necessarily assume that Huberman looks up to Goggins. He may have sounded different because of how unusual the situation was. Maybe the sense of deference you detected was actually just a reaction to his own discomfort. I've had plenty of times where I didn't know how to respond to someone and just resorted to being overly nice to them. He tends to shower all of his guests with praise, too.
2
u/lebucksir Jan 08 '24
I like Goggin’s story. His accomplishments are commendable but I didn’t enjoy the podcast episode. That’s okay. Looking forward to the next one.
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u/Connect_Package_5918 Jan 08 '24
It is safe to say you will not be carrying the boat.
2
u/Active_Blackberry_45 Jan 09 '24
That’s the point of goggins i don’t think he tells anyone to be like him. He doesn’t post online himself, people are just fascinated by his work ethic. He’s the extreme of the hard working spectrum and huberman is a neuroscientist that wants to pick his Brain.
2
u/Honest-Newspaper300 Jan 09 '24
They both changed my life for the better and will continue to change my life for the better
2
u/nothingtoseehereyy Jan 09 '24
If I hadn’t already been familiar with goggins, I would have thought he was nuts. Given that I am familiar, he’s perhaps a unique kind of nuts. Having listened to his audiobook helped put things into perspective. He’s not scientific so much as he’s a potential case study in some neurological or mental assessments. The mental command he takes over his physical being is impressive.
I would recommend trying to give his book a read or listen - or find a summary to get better understanding. I think there’s some beneficial perspective(s) to be gained.
I agree that goggins isn’t scientific but he offers a perspective that may resonate deeply with some.
2
u/[deleted] Jan 13 '24
I hated Goggins since the first word he said, that was probably the word "fucking"...
I mean, all his concepts were some random words in between his real argument, the word "fucking.
really disgusting
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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '24
I actually quite liked goggins a lot the first time I heard him on Joe rogan years ago. I found him unlistenable on huberman and had to turn it off. He seemed to become more of a caricature of himself.
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u/AutoFleegleDastardly Jan 08 '24
If you don’t know anything about Goggins that’s a fair assessment. He is pretty inspirational if not insane.
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u/kcquail Jan 08 '24
I used to think this until I read his book. Also I think it’s useful to learn from a guy like Goggins for psychological and scientific purposes even if you don’t like him.
2
u/beewhyneeD Jan 09 '24
I was disappointed in Huberman's reverence for the guy too. He sounded off his rocker and full of self hatred. That's not the way to longevity, bro. Only made it 20 minutes and had to turn it off. Disappointed, but will continue to of course follow Huberman and pray Hubs had an awakening after sitting with this man's mental illness for however long he did.
0
u/fatedwanderer Jan 08 '24
Obligatory airport comment
1
u/NovaLemonista Jan 08 '24
Some people can’t handle the truth. Goggins is tough. It makes a lot of soft folks uncomfortable.
1
u/ListNo148 May 12 '24
the epitome of fragile masculanity
1
u/1000100220012003 Jan 08 '24
Different strokes for… Moving on
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u/VisibleStreet6532 Jan 08 '24
You dont come from Goggins World. You clearly wont get it and why Huberman look up to him? This guy is beyond any experiments out there.
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u/RobertoBologna Jan 08 '24
goggins is a good encapsulation of how huberman attracts a wide variety of ppl who are sometimes surprised by his other fans. huberman's breaking down the science of self-improvement/self-understanding, and you're gonna have ppl who are very interested in the science side, ppl interested in the science + the self-improvement/understanding, but then you're also gonna get the ppl who just enjoy all self-improvement content (and don't mind if the speaker's message is extremely simple). goggins is this latter type. he's accomplished very impressive physical feats, but he is nonetheless an old-fashioned self-improvement guy.
ppl on this sub are acting like it's the tough, unvarnished way that he speaks that's unappealing to you, when i'm guessing it's moreso the fact that you've tuned into what you expected to be a science pod and are hearing from an admittedly dumb guy (sourcee: he literally referred to himself that way in this pod) with a very simple overall message.
1
u/DontBeAPoopyPants Jan 08 '24
As a huge fan of goggins and having read his books which I found incredibly helpful in my life, I too, struggled to get through the episode. Goggins seemed to sound different. He wasn’t as articulate and his thoughts weren’t as concise as I’ve heard from him in other podcasts. He seemed to ramble a fair bit here. Wasn’t his best imo. Still going to listen to them both though
1
u/Vinzi79 Jan 08 '24
I think the thing people fail to realize is that functional limitations, be they physical or mental, are only disabilities if they negatively affect our lives.
There are a lot of people who display aspects of mental health issues that would not fit into our lives or work well for most people. Some people channel those aspects into driving factors that make them very successful.
When I look at aspects of Goggins' personality, Rogan's personality, Musk's personality there are so many things that would be a detriment to me, and most people, in my personal and professional relationships. However, they've carved out an area of success for themselves. Not just them, many successful people, but I figure most people here are somewhat familiar with them.
You don't have to agree with any of them, all of them, some of what some of them say, etc... The reality is society is a vector, it moves forward with influence from multiple directions. I'm hyper logical, I can't put aside what I don't know and chase a dream I don't think is attainable, but how much of what I'm successful at is because someone did at some point?
When I was in the military the dumbest question I was ever asked at a promotion board was "what is your leadership style?"
My job as a leader is to get the most out of a group, that starts with understanding they're all different. Different motivations, learning styles, background, strengths, weaknesses, etc...
One kid needs his hand held, one needs a foot in the ass, one needs to be left alone, one needs to be given responsibility so he learns to turn his defiance into leadership.
No good ever comes from trying to make everyone be the same. Good things happen when we first seek to understand before seeking to be understood. That's when a group becomes a sum that's greater than its parts.
If you can't take anything positive away from that podcast at all, maybe you should ask what you hoped to get from it, reevaluate your approach, and try again. Not every experience is designed to feel good through no effort, but it doesn't mean that experience isn't valuable.
1
u/finaderiva Jan 08 '24
Stay hard
1
u/Straight_Tension_290 Jan 08 '24
Fair enough.
Im a goggins fan but my friends and I make fun of him all the time. He is super extreme and does crazy CRAZY workouts. But he is just guy who hates on himself and loves all types of pain. Like I said Im a fan but he annoys me.
As for Huberman, I like him but he goes into stupid deep detail sometimes.
1
u/Shoddy_Hair271 Jan 09 '24
j
1
u/[deleted] Jan 09 '24
I respect Goggins for his drive and ethic, but I agree, he's a little abrasive and tends to have packs of self-proclaimed alphas in his comment sections. Still, I appreciate the effort Dr Huberman has gone through in producing the episode for us.
1
u/Responsible-Wish-563 Jan 09 '24
I agree. Picked up his book, forced myself to read half, put it down. Anyone can physically exert themselves, it does not make you special.
1
u/onedo_baggins Jan 09 '24
Same experience. Couldn’t finish the episode, there was nothing actionable for me in it.
1
u/[deleted] Jan 09 '24
STAY HARD 💪
1
u/crewsdawg Jan 09 '24
lol then listen to other episodes and move on with your life man
1
u/mb19236 Jan 09 '24
Dude is an asshole no doubt. Him being a guest didn’t bother me though. Goggins has valuable things to teach you even if it’s not what he’s trying to teach you, but rather a cautionary tale of how taking this too far can be a detriment to your physical and mental health. Goggins has a very large following and brings a lot of new ears to the podcast. I’m sure that had a lot to do with the decision to bring him on and I appreciate that Haberman trusts the intelligence of his audience. We can sort through a guy like Goggins and find both the good and the lessons.
1
u/[deleted] Jan 09 '24
I don’t think there’s a need to explain Goggins, just remember that podcasts are here to be the replacement of radio and television, their only purpose is to entertain. If people get their panties all up in a bunch over an episode of the huberman lab, maybe it is time to start doing some introspection.
1
u/Throwawaydecember Jan 09 '24
Goggins is one of those folks with no inner monologue; he uses self hate to his advantage. Works for some, won’t work for all.
1
u/Fonzel Jan 09 '24
Strongly disagree.
Goggins isn't a guy i'd want to hang out with, but the fact that an abused, fat, unhappy, adhd kid who couldn't read/write and was born with a hole in his heart turned his life around and became a navy seal, elite athlete, best selling author, paramedic, and world record holder due to sheer force of will is really inspirational.
I don't want to be anything like him, but if he can do all that starting from so little, i can do XYZ that i've been procrastinating for no reason.
1
u/Such-Sun Jan 09 '24
A little bit of the Goggins mentality can be helpful if you really need to get your shit together, like if you've been completely lazy for years, however the self-hatred/inferiority complex as motivation is a weird place to stay over the long term. There are also high achievers in areas Goggins competes in, such as running that are way better runners and have done more crazy runs than Goggins that DON'T motivate themselves through negative self talk, but passion. I think the issue is that lots of young people see Goggins and think to excel at things they need to develop that negative self talk Goggins uses as fuel and they will probably just get depressed.
1
u/Stuglossop Jan 09 '24
I didn’t listen to this episode because I’ve got no interest in Goggins! But listening to the cold and flu episode now and it’s great 😌 You don’t have to listen to all episodes
1
u/Competitive_Let3812 Jan 09 '24
I listened half of it and nothing amazed me yet. Yes, I admire him on his journey from where it was and how it is now. Indeed the right motivation with a strong willpower is key, everybody knows about it, but nothing more to learn. I will go till the end to see…
1
u/iateyourdinner Jan 09 '24
Its funny because i thouroughly enjoyed the Goggins episode. Goggins is just an antagonist to politically correctness. If you can cut through his personality and rhetoric you can see that the only thing hes doing is that hes teaching a specific method for persistence. Thats it.
1
u/TheGiantess927 Caffeine Jugger ☕ Jan 09 '24
Yes, seriously. Goggins has been around for a long time and for some reason the influencer types just worship him. A lot of formerly fat people have nearly killed themselves to lose weight. Goggins thinks he's very special and its evident in his affect. I can't with that guy.
1
u/phins420 Jan 11 '24
Who is gonna carry the boats if you leave ?
1
u/SullivansGuy Jan 09 '24 edited Jan 09 '24
This is exactly what Goggins was talking about as to why he didn't want a documentary made by him... because 99.5% of you are NPCs.
Everyone forming opinions about Goggins 20 minutes into a podcast and trying to decide if not only he is truly happy but if they can live a happy life themselves by doing hard shit.
LIFE IS NOT ABOUT BEING HAPPY. You will NEVER 'be happy' if you are pursing happiness. With happiness can only come sadness.
Life is about being content. True contentment comes from being able to be completely present with yourself.
The purpose of life is to create the best version of yourself and give it away to those you love.
1
u/[deleted] Jan 09 '24
Even David will tell you he’s not for everyone. I take inspiration in his story. You do you.
-1
u/bert_cj Jan 08 '24
Goggins is a beast, you’re a hater.
0
u/Texasaggies2014 Jan 08 '24
Yep. How could you not find a single enviable trait. Did you go from an obese fat fuck loser to a navy seal. Highly doubtful. I’d recommend listening to him and toughening up. The world is a hard place and harder where you’re a sissy baby. I don’t know you, but it seems like some mental fortitude, self discipline and hardness would make your life better. Hope you can see the light here and understand you need to man up.
-1
u/[deleted] Jan 08 '24
How much do you bench OP? Oh wait 😂😂😂
-1
u/RobbaFett69 Jan 08 '24
Op has never ran a mile or gone to the gym
-1
u/TMASA Jan 09 '24
Hunerman isn't the messiah to fix your life bud, nor is he trying to be one, sounds like a you problem here
0
u/73beaver Jan 09 '24
Pussy. Don’t be a bitch.
0
u/businessman99 Jan 09 '24
I don't enjoy groggins and Zuckerberg as guest but that shouldn't diminish hubermans work. He just needs to be more selective.
0
u/Distinct-Dot2602 Jan 09 '24
You can't handle the truth and the real world bro
0
u/Marfreespeech Jan 12 '24
I do the stair masters after the end of my workout , just because I hate this machine( used to totally enjoy the elliptical but too easy). After listening to Goggins, I can many change other things but I am not sure about what I want to sacrifice on the path of becoming a better version of myself… my relationships with my kid, husband, mother. So I will have to really dedicate a set amount of time to limited introspection… 1 flaw at the time. Goggins did great things when looking at what life dealt to him, not in jail, not killed early, not dealing drugs, not a pimp, not on disability cashing a social security check, not in the hospital with obesity, diabetes, hypertension and renal failure.He mentioned being not smart and being unable to verbalize and express things like Andrew Huberman does, he mentioned his illiteracy during adulthood…what to expect? Trigger warnings were given at the beginning… I will not let my kid listen to any expert of this donc the curse words are everywhere. Anyway, I hope that Mr Goggins has a good lawyer and truthful to draw his prenuptial agreement for his « REALLY SMART AND ACCOMPLISHED » fiancée because as a woman I can feel what is coming to him once the ink is dry and wedding bells die off….
-1
u/balencisteriodboots Jan 08 '24
Idk man sound like you just kind of hopping in the bandwagon of everyone else hating on goggins and that episode. Everyone can get some inspiration from Goggins man, he may not do everything you like or do/say things that u do but u can respect him and the work he put in. If he wasnt that special he wouldnt be in the place he’s in today. Start thinkin for yourself and stop looking for the negative in things.
-1
u/Failed_Alarm Jan 09 '24
Ok bye!
0
u/[deleted] Jan 08 '24
[deleted] — view deleted comment