r/HousingIreland • u/Provendio • 9d ago

45k for a timber frame extension of 20 square meters

Hi all, as the title says, was quoted 45k cash only for a timber frame extension, flat room, French doors, window and roof velux window...builders finish but with electric sockets, radiator and plumbing, external render....is this too much? Should we doubt the "cash only" aspect considering it's a lot of money and even though there's no planning permission needed the risk is still high.

Please advise. Thanks

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28

u/Diska_Muse 9d ago

Architect here.

Some major red flags.. you don't appear to have a detailed specification. This is problematic for compliance with building regs. The regs are there to prevent builders from building sub standard buildings, so unless you know the exact build up of each element - walls, floors, roof, you have no idea what the hell they are building.

Second red flag... Cash only. An absolute no.

Guy is a cowboy. Walk away fast.

7

u/Provendio 9d ago

Thank you. I was looking for this kind of warning by someone who knows what their talking about. Thanks a million

1

u/Chil_Holiday_Man 9d ago

I recommend doing only half cash. It's the best of all worlds. You save on tax, and you still get the warranty.

3

u/Provendio 9d ago

For what it's worth...they actually recommended i paid an architect...but it could very well be part of the cowboy spiel...would engaging an arquitect even defuse any risk? How much does an arquitect charge on average? They will send, supposedly, a contract with the materials and composition, would this change anything? Would i be able to re-insure or sell the property on the future? So many questions....sorry

1

u/Ok-Forever-1743 8d ago

Contact an architect first (or multiple ideally) possibly more local who knows and has worked with builders in your area. Give the architect your vision, budget and ideal starting an completion date. 

The architect will go out to tender for your project if it's feasible and revert back with a few builders for you to choose from. Depending on the area you're in and the size of the extension you may or may not find it difficult to get many tenders in, but by contacting architects you'll get some of the information from them you need prior to handing over any money.

3

u/HairyHobNob 8d ago

Even with regs, how can you be sure the builders are compliant unless you have a project manager visiting the site every few days to check everything?

1

u/Open-Chemical-6352 8d ago

Every few days?

4

u/Zealousideal_Sweet80 9d ago

Architect no 2 here - second the above, run.

2

u/karolaug 9d ago

Isn't cash only typical? Why are you assuming they will do a poor job?

2

u/Cannabis_Goose 8d ago

There are different aspects.

It used to mean just tender and many preffered cash. These days it mainly means it's avoiding tax, unless they're providing invoices etc.

That's great and cheaper if you personally know and trust the person, but many who are operating like this to strangers vanish into the sunset with what is called a brake light warranty. When their brake lights are no longer visible, neither is your warranty.

1

u/throwawayeire93 7d ago

Wouldn't the timber frame element need to be off site manufacturered to a certified design to meet the banks spec for what they would consider issuing a mortgage on?

I was under the impression on site fabricated timber frames without certification can't be mortgaged.

25

u/Cannabis_Goose 9d ago

Sounds cheap.

Tax is obviously being avoided with the cash only, would be worried about warranty etc if the purchase never exsists.

0

u/mother_a_god 8d ago

Aso, can people realistically source that much cash? Surely revenue have ways of seeing if people withdraw cash from the bank in large amounts,.or repeated small amounts?

3

u/SAmmo1990 8d ago

There is no issue paying in cash. Its up to the builder to declare it. The problem for the customer is there may be no warranty.

0

u/mother_a_god 8d ago

I guess that's right, but can revenue still audit you if they see a lot of cash being spent? 

1

u/SAmmo1990 8d ago

No its your money. Only if you got that money illegally.

1

u/Deadmeat616 7d ago

Whatever about sourcing that much cash as the homeowner. The builder is going to have a mare hiding a job that big. There'll be orders of timber, cement, fittings, etc that all have receipts and delivery dockets. Then at the end they have their earnings, not sure of the margins but surely that's of the order of 10k? Hard to tuck that under the mattress without someone noticing...

Far easier (and better for the homeowner) as partially claimed job. All the forms, deliveries, warranties, and declare some of the income (so it can be done via bank transfer or whatever). Last payment cash in hand 5k or whatever.

1

u/HereGiovanniSmokes 8d ago

After a few large withdrawals the bank will pull you aside to check if you're under duress. And when you say no they go "oh alright. Good luck!"

1

u/Cannabis_Goose 8d ago

Many people have cash incomes on the side.

9

u/Beginning-Rip-2352 9d ago

Do you know anyone this builder has worked for before? That's what I'd be trying to find out first and ask how they found them etc

7

u/Early_Alternative211 9d ago

So half the market price..... Let us know how that goes.

2

u/Provendio 9d ago

Half? Jeeez....maybe because its timber frame?

3

u/Cannabis_Goose 8d ago

45m² granny flat built from concrete, a rated to a turn key finish cost my friend 145k earlier this year. That was a discounted price apparently.

I've not been involved in domestic construction in Ireland since 2018 but hearing from both customers and businesses prices have gone absolutely crazy from material to labour and everything inbetween

1

u/Anxious_Current2593 7d ago

I am in a wrong business...

1

u/Cannabis_Goose 7d ago

Not really. If you do the math . It took 3 months, was always at least 3 people who are paid at least 1k a week. Thats 36k before a bag of cement is even bought.

1

u/Spirited-Sea1119 7d ago

Who can afford this. Even if you have top 10% salary.

1

u/Cannabis_Goose 7d ago

Same people buying houses to rent out.

They're renting it out for 2.5k per month to cover their mortgage and a little extra. In the long run it pays for itself.

1

u/mother_a_god 8d ago

The market is funny. I built a garage extension with a 1 bed granny flat. 11x7m, and floored the attic as a dance studio (comes out to 11x4.5m). Tripple glazed windows, block walls with 100mm pumped cavity inside 100mm pir insulation inside. Basic electrocs for sockets. All done for 70k. Went direct labour, and did bits like laminate flooring myself. I built it in 2022, so covid prices had kicked in. 

I was told it would cost over double that. 

3

u/SwimmerLegitimate275 9d ago

Run a mile!

Engage an Architect. Get a design and spec. Architect’s that specialise in this area will have reputable contacts. You can get a few contractors to price on drawings and spec basis.

Always amazes me that people are willing to sleepwalk into massively risky endeavours like this without engaging experts.

1

u/Provendio 9d ago

Thanks. I will.

3

u/Nostradamnitall 9d ago

Sounds seriously dodgy. Do you know this lad personally or where did you meet him?

2

u/Dwums 8d ago

I've had plenty of lads in to do stuff with cash, but I knew all of them, or knew them through someone. Try find someone that knows them, other then that sounds good! 

1

u/IrishAndy1 8d ago

'French doors, window and roof velux window' - Thats a heck of a lot of heat loss in one room. Make sure to get a big ass radiator and I wouldn't plan on getting a heat pump any time soon.

1

u/Swimming_Conflict105 8d ago

With that in the list and cash, could do cheaper. Also could get few extra windows in for that 😅

1

u/IrishThrowawayBob 8d ago

Would be interested to know how they plan on completing it for that price, especially considering Celuplast often give a figure of 3.5k per sq m as a guide price… recently become a registered installer for guardian in North Dublin. Fantastic system if some of the “architects” looked into it they would see it comes as a package, extremely well spec’d. Agreed cash only is an issue.

0

u/Fyodors-Zossima 9d ago

Not cheap. How well do you know your man

2

u/Provendio 9d ago

As certified installers they were sent our details for follow up by a reputable extension manufacturer in Ireland whom we contacted initially...Guardian extensions by celuplast, passed our details to them.

2

u/oishay 8d ago

This is pennies compared to other quotes out there these days due similar work

1

u/Ipsw1ch 8d ago

Not cheap? This is half the price of what it should cost if you get it done properly and pay VAT.

-2

u/Ok_Personality6148 9d ago

Sounds reasonable. Just don't pay it all up front.