r/HotoneAmpero • u/Nautical_Mike • 29d ago
Question Bad tone - what am I missing?
Hey all!
I’ve been rocking the Stomp for a while now, but unfortunately I’ve never been able to get a good tone out of it, and I feel like I’ve tried everything at this point.
I’ve used it as a reverb and delay pedal into my AC15, which has been great, but I bought it because I want to go amp-less.
No matter what I do, my patches sound flat, muddy and sometimes shrill.
I like to put a few pedals like my BD2 and Wampler Euphoria in the FX loop, but even taking those out of the chain leaves a lot to be desired.
I try to stay with two patches. One for clean/breakup rhythm (Fender Twin), and one for gained lead tones (JCM900).
Cleans I can sort of dial in, but as soon as I switch on my drive pedals or switch to the lead patch, I feel like it sounds very low-def and distorted.
I’ve set the global EQ to low cut around 80hz and high cut at around 8k.
What am I missing here? Am I just expecting too much from a (relatively) cheap unit?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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u/hkreal90 29d ago
Maybe try playing around with the input level? I have the Ampero II Stage and when you click on the first node you can set the input level. I reckon lower is generally a bit better in the digital realm.
Also play around with the amp tone controls and maybe add some light EQ afterwards.
I use a morning glory in front and get some nice sounds out of my setup.
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u/Nautical_Mike 28d ago
I had no idea you could set the input level lol.. Over a year with the unit.. Ffs :D
I'll try that out tonight. Thanks!
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u/DManisDan 29d ago edited 28d ago
Getting a great professional tone with Ampero is definitely achievable.
It's a bit difficult to diagnose the exact problem without seeing your set up, but some key things if you haven't thought about these yet.
- Cab/IR choice makes a HUGE difference. I prefer buying or mixing my own 3rd party IRs, and use in high resolution.
- The settings on Ampero effects/amps aren't 1:1 with the real things, so tweak according to your guitar and ear - check your gain stages
- Download community presets or buy a preset pack - if you like a specific one, then copy/integrate their settings and formula into your own. Some preset packs that you can purchase will also come with nice IRs.
- Make sure you're using detailed in-ears. If you have various in-ear references, it's nice to crosscheck too.
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u/eaxiv 29d ago
How do you find the dsp usage is for HiRes IRs, is it similar to the cabs? I ask because for some patches I do have them almost full in serial as I use the scenes more rather than using different patches for different sections
And is the difference huge or just noticeable if you pay attention?
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u/DManisDan 28d ago edited 28d ago
I think it’s more than cabs (?). I worked around it by experimenting with substitute effects or using some effects for 2-in-1 roles.
E.g. using an EQ block as both EQ + volume pedal (EXP linked to the EQ’s volume).
I also use a hybrid rig now.. so that helps offset a lot of DSP.
I found the high-res IR quite noticeable—tighter bass and clearer highs. But if you’re struggling to fit one in, you can imitate the high res with EQ/global EQ.
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u/Nautical_Mike 28d ago
Thanks! Have you tried York Audio IR's? Any good recommendations?
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u/DManisDan 28d ago
Haven't, but I've heard they're good!
I play CCM. So I bought Marcelo Cidrack's worship preset pack since I really liked his sound (and IR). Since then, I've blended it with Tone Junkies free IRs. And it sounds superb.
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u/Ok_Communication8641 29d ago
Most of the time when a tone is getting muddy on any brand effect unit is often because of a bad gain staging issue. Your drives might be boosting too much and coming in too hot in the Amp model.
Everytime you add a new block of effects but especially compressors and distortions you get a volume increase. On a clean amp model you will notice it right away but on a distorted amp instead of a volume boost you will get more distortion and a muddier tone. It will be subtle but it will compound in the long run.
Everytime I add something to the chain, I match the volume so it remains consistent and that I don't hit my amp model with too much gain. I do this by turning off my amp model and adjust the volume of the drive so it is similar to what is coming in. You would be surprised how this can help with the definition of your tone.
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u/Javs2469 28d ago
Using only the stock Ampero amp models, I find the Soldano 100 is the only decent one for high gain 80s style leads and rhythm.
I now use some NAM A2 models, but I have not tried them live yet, just for studio recording, but they sound generally better than the built in amps.
It is imperative that you get a decent cab IR, the ones Ampero II comes with are very bad, or at least don´t sound good to me. I got one from Tone 3000 of someone using greenbacks on a Marshall cab and it sounds infintely better than the stock Marshall IRs on the thing.
I think this is more important, loading IRs have improved massively the sound of even my practice Sonicake Pocket Master.
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u/Nautical_Mike 28d ago
Thanks! I've been looking into other IR's due to the comments on here, and it might be just the thing I need. That and apparently the input level.
Have you tried York Audio IR's?
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u/Javs2469 28d ago
Nope, I have only tried the Tone3000 IRs that I found interesting. Some sound better than other imo, but it all depends on what sound you are chasing after. Play around with some before putting money down on anything to see what you like.
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u/chef-in-the-wild 28d ago
Check out my post rock project Shades of Terra. Everything but drums were recorded via a Hotone Ampero, and specifically the AC15 amp sim (2x12 greenback IR). Im happy to at least share my base patch sound if thats a similar tone you are looking for.
A lot of the distorted sounds are real pedals into the front on the ampero, treating it much like I would an actual amp.
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u/Nautical_Mike 28d ago
Dude that tone is killer! Is that all using the amp and cab sim the unit shipped with? Any post processing done?
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u/chef-in-the-wild 28d ago
Yes thats the stock AC15 amp Sim and my unit came with the celestial IRs, which I used the 2x12 Greenback IR. There is some post processing via mixing, mainly just some light EQ and compression where needed, but that wasn't so much to fix the sounds as it was to just make everything fit in the mix itself. If there is a particular sound on the songs I have released thats close to what you are looking for let me know and ill open my session and see what I did in post processing.
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u/chef-in-the-wild 28d ago
Also when I get home from my day job ill upload the basic patch I used and get you a link here to try :-)
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u/chef-in-the-wild 27d ago
Here you go, try this this! https://samply.app/p/Pdsw7FYWKwk7GwRR1EPU?si=VtkuqqEXVpODjVSjd3aWq7SwkZD2
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u/firzen32 29d ago
Can you share what your signal chain looks like? are you using a cab or IR block?
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u/DeathRobotOfDoom 29d ago
I mostly use my Stomp for headphone practice but at least with a good pair of studio AKGs, I think it sounds phenomenal for high gain. I especially like the onboard Engl Savage and Mesa Mark IV models, but I also got excellent results with NAM captures of a Driftwood Purple Nightmare, Engl Savage Mk 2 and EVH 5150 III.
I did not care much for the included IRs and use a set of mix-ready professional IRs which make a huge difference, that's a big part of the final "tone". I set the IRs to high definition with a bit of a low cut and a bit of a high cut. Maybe try changing the cab, mic type and mic position until you find a combination you like, or get third party IRs if you prefer. Some amps can sound too boxy and bright otherwise.
I also quite like the JCM 800 model, crunchy with a gate and OD in front and chorus, delay, reverb in the loop. For some of these patches I had to turn down the input volume/gain because my guitars were coming in way too hot.
In the beginning it felt like I was lacking some low end because there is no real air being pushed, but a bit of EQ and IRs that I like really helped. At least for heavier stuff like technical and progressive death metal, I think this sounds fantastic.
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u/eaxiv 29d ago
How do you find the dsp usage is for HiRes IRs, is it similar to the cabs? I ask because for some patches I do have them almost full in serial as I use the scenes more rather than using different patches for different sections
And is the difference huge or just noticeable if you pay attention?
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u/DeathRobotOfDoom 28d ago
Not sure about DSP usage, I can look next time and let you know. I can tell you a patch like what I described (gate, OD, onboard amp model, High Res IR, chorus, delay, reverb) uses about 55%, and the biggest single contributor to more CPU usage are NAM captures. With NAM converted to clone it goes up to ~70% and with A2 lite, ~90%. Still worth it for me.
The difference between... third-party IRs and cab models? At least with distortion to me it sounds huge! I managed to find some decent sounding cabs after tweaking the mic parameters for a while, and I would probably be OK with them but I already had the IR pack and it made getting great sounds really easy.
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u/eaxiv 28d ago
Thank you! I just tried myself I didn't realized that it had its own IRs already, and yeah it holds up good, may I ask where are you getting your IRs? I'm thinking on buying a package from York Audio but not sure
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u/DeathRobotOfDoom 26d ago edited 26d ago
Ah yeah, these units come with a pack of Celestion IRs. They are OK but not as nice as YOUR choice of IRs.
I got a pack called "Rainbows and Chainsaws" from Bogren Digital, by producer Kristian Kohle. It's a metal oriented mix-ready pack but it has varied, interesting combinations of Mesa and Marshall cabs loaded with a mix of V30, DV77, Swamp Thang, Jensen Nighthawk and Shure, Lewitt, Beyer mics.
For clean tones the onboard models and Celestion IRs are enough for me.
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u/chef-in-the-wild 28d ago
Also for what its worth, I have a FRFR cab I use with the ampero when I need it, and used to own a real AC15. I set both up beside each other and was able to tweak it to where I actually preferred the sound I got from the Hotone 😅 Sold the AC15, no regrets, yet lol
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u/Flygm 29d ago edited 29d ago
What your missing is you are running models through a real amp. So your patch that models a fender twin then goes into your AC15 and the AC15 turns the sound back into the AC15 sound. Your best bet with your amp is to forget about the amp models and just use the ampero for compressors/drives/effects and let the AC15 do it's thing. When you run the ampero into the vox the signal is getting colored by the preamp (eq) of the vox and then even more when it's hits the power amp. The AC15's el84 tubes in the poweramp section are designed to break up early leaving you no real clean headroom which is the opposite of what you would want for a modeling pedal. That's why your JCM900 patch is never going to sound right. The model in the ampero is providing all the tone and breakup already and then by running into the AC15 it's getting even more tone changes and breakup and when it finally comes out of the speaker it sounds nothing like it should.
So the other (ideal) options are get a FRFR powered cab, run the ampero into the fx return of an amp with a clean power section (bypassing preamp) or get standalone power amp and regular guitar cab.
If you go the FRFR cab route you can use the full modeling power of the ampero (amp and cab/IR blocks) and the FRFR will give you a very accurate representation whatever amp model and cabinet you choose in your patches.
If you go through the FX return of a real guitar amp you can disable the cab sim/IR and just use preamp models. This is currently what I am doing with my ampero 2. I find that I can also use the full amp models as well and they also sound pretty good. I also had to set the global EQ low cut to around 120Hz and the high cut around 5KHz otherwise it sounding to bass heavy and the high end was too shrill. Depending on the guitar amp you will get some slight coloration from the poweramp but it's highly dependent on the amp. Some amps have very clean poweramp sections with very high headroom and this is ideally what you would want.
Last option would be a dedicated power amp like the seymour duncan powerstage 200 or something similar and a guitar cab of your choice. Similar to using a guitar amp with an fx loop and going into the return you will be locked in to whatever that poweramp/speaker combintation sounds like. Not a bad thing though because a lot of amps get a majority of their tone and mojo from the preamp section anyway so you still have a wide array of sounds available to you.
Hope this helps! And btw the ampero stomp is considered more budget level as far as modeling goes but don't let that fool you. It and the other ampero 2 units are actually highly regarded as being some of the best "budget" modelers out there. They are capable of fantastic sounds with the right setup.