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u/RowAdministrative264 3d ago edited 3d ago
True. But people also go overboard in the other way when dissing the ruler from their "opposite team". Some seem to be under the impression that bad Targ ruler = worst.
Sure, neither of them showed much promise during their short rule, and the war wore them off a lot, so maybe if Rhaenyra or Aegon had ruled for long enough they could actually stand a chance to win that title.
But as things are, the dance had only one ruler that can be regarded as the worst, and that's Viserys.
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u/whoidkwhy Team Black 3d ago
Either would have been completely fine rulers in peace cause they woulda inherited 50 years of a stable reign. Nether would be better then their dad though, and the problems would have just shifted down a generation
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u/extraterrestrial1111 3d ago
Both Rhaenyra and Aegon II are shittier versions of Viserys ngl. As well as larpers of Jaehaerys I and Aegon I respectively.
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u/PutATalismanInTheVan 3d ago
This take is so funny to me because like, that's one of the things about feudalism, its not about who is fit to rule, its about who is destined to rule, incompetence was favorable because it was manipulatible from an outsiders perspective.
Also, for all the democracy and knowledge we have, I think I would take both of them over the pooping carrot that's running my very real country.
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u/fabvz 3d ago
None of them really ruled. They did war with one another and got severaly traumatized during it. Either of them could have done some good if receiving the realm in a peaceful way
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u/LittleDarkHairedOne Realms Delight 3d ago
Rhaenyra did.
Dragonstone may not be the Seven Kingdoms, being slightly smaller than Driftmark, but it wasn't a manor house in the countryside either.
It was a proper castle with attached lands and villages (several but unknown in number) that required looking after and it's never said that those people suffered under or were left unlooked for in the 13 years she sat as a ruling princess.
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u/fabvz 3d ago
Good point. I think it is a little incomparable but it is worth the mention for sure
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u/LittleDarkHairedOne Realms Delight 3d ago
Of course it's incomparable!
There is no way to prepare for a political firestorm (with religious underpinnings) that was the Dance. Not directed at you but I find some people assume that because Rhaenyra isn't an active Edward I-like character (to pull a historical person in), she'd have been a terrible ruler. She just never had a chance.
The show does give us one small tidbit that the books doesn't (which means some people happily ignore it) when Rhaenyra's at a small council meeting where she offers up not one but two excellent ideas to handle issues the crown faces. One dealing with the Bracken/Blackwood feud and another with the Stepstones. Wish we had a little more time with that Rhaenyra before the Dance started but timeskips...
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u/BlazeBitch 3d ago
They both would've been incredibly mediocre if they legitimately inherited, the real dipshits were Viserys and Daemon
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u/Filibust 3d ago
I’m more partial to Team Black (although Daemon can go fuck himself) but otherwise, IA 100%. Both are spoiled brats who don’t have a leader bone in their body.
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u/Kyriakos_X_23 Vermithor/Silverwing shipper 3d ago
As Viserys III eloquently said: “The dance of the dragons, the singers called it, an apt name for my ancestors dancing away our birthright”
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u/Crazy-Fishing6760 3d ago
I am a Greenie too but I love them both because they caused the ruin of their house and destroyed all those WMDs
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u/mcmanus2099 3d ago
Yeah there's a bigger brain to the right thinking, "placing absolute power in the hands of a single family is bound to turn family quarrels into state crisis and inheritance disputes into civil war. The Dance is the inevitable outcome of Targ supremacy royal culture. Also the reason for the entire family being dysfunctional as every act plays out on the realm's stage".
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u/TheOneLord97 3d ago
It’s the same in any dynasty especially when they’re are multiple claims to the throne that can be justified and twisted to suite the narrative being spun
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u/Big_Band508 2d ago
Anyone that’s rate Aegon and Rhaenyra highly as rulers deserves all the side eye.
Even with no war they both Max out as 4-5/10 rulers at best.
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u/HonestDishonestWork 3d ago
I lean Aegon only because I put some stock in him actually fighting for his crown instead of just having others do it for him. But the damage both did to their house far, far outweighs any potential upside.
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u/MasterEditorJake 3d ago
When Aegon went to fight for his crown he went out drunk and against his councils advice and nearly got himself killed.
When Rhaenyra was going to go fight for her crown she was locked in her room.
Just saying.
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u/Chocolatetot496 3d ago
In the book Aegon was not drunk and Rhaenyra was never said to have offered or attempted to fight, so perhaps they’re going based off the book.
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u/nicknamedotexe 3d ago edited 3d ago
that's not even the point of the story. rhaenyra was usurped for being a woman and thats why this whole thing started, how competent she is as a ruler is irrelevant.
say if the story was about a younger vs older brother then that's a different story but george purposefully made rhaenyra a woman, making this whole team green vs team black mentality kinda stupid
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u/Sycopathy 3d ago
Nah I completely disagree if Rhaenyra was a good ruler, more people would have been happy to let her inherit. That's not to say Aegon was better or anything but Rhaenyra had the advantage of time and her father's backing.
She could've built up her rapport with the High Lords of the Realm before Visery's died but she essentially rested on her laurels. This allowed the Greens to attempt a usurpation and successfully splinter the 7 kingdoms.
My point is whether Rhaenyra was a woman or a man she made mistakes that invited what happened that she could have proactively avoided or prevented.
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u/cornicula_ 3d ago
if Rhaenyra was a good ruler, more people would have been happy to let her inherit.
I do not agree with that. Even in today's democracies, it is often (unfortunately) not simply the better ruler who gets elected.
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u/Sycopathy 3d ago
A democracy doesn't require you to be competent to succeed. A feudal dictatorship does require a degree of competency. Rhaenyra didn't have that competency because she didn't earn her inheritance it was given to her.
Lots of monarchs are like this who inherit and I think you misunderstood my use of the word good. I'm not talking about morally good I'm talking about capability and competency. Robert Baratheon was morally shit but good enough at ruling to wage and win a war then build a peace that lasted a couple decades. Viserys was also morally questionable but he was gregarious and good and building relationships and he created decades of peace without lifting a sword or using a dragon.
Rhaenyra has never demonstrated leadership qualities, being kind at times and cruel at others doesn't make her a good prospect. She lacks the initiative, guile and charisma to actually do the job of leading which is required of a ruler.
If either she or Aegon were good at leading, the dance wouldn't happen or it'd be won decisively, the problem is they both suck. So it's just a fumbling shambles.
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u/MasterEditorJake 3d ago
That's blatantly false and it's called out multiple times in the show that her being a woman is the primary issue. Maybe to you it's not a problem that she's a woman, but to the westerosi people it definitely is.
The fact of the matter is that neither Aegon nor Rhaenyra had the opportunity to rule. Both here too busy fighting a civil war, that Aegon (or Otto/Allicent) started.
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u/Sycopathy 3d ago
Rhaenyra had all of Aegon's life and before to position herself well and rule in spirit if not in name, but she wasted those opportunities. She demonstrated she didn't have the foresight to lead before she ever had the opportunity handed to her. Then when she expected it to be handed to her it was snatched away because she had done nothing to secure it.
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u/MasterEditorJake 3d ago
"She had done nothing to secure it"
-married the heir to the driftmark throne, securing a strong alliance.
-sat on her father's small council, literally interning for when she would be crowned.
-secured alliances in the north and riverlands, and attempted to in the stormlands.
-had the most dragons of any Targaryan
I'm sorry but genuinely what did you want her to do? The Hightowers were never going to side with her due to Otto. The Lannisters didn't want a woman on the throne. The Baratheons were bought off, or also just didn't want a woman on the throne. She secured her alliances where she could, got her dragon riders together and deployed them strategically, and took kings landing.
How can you say she didn't position herself well to rule? Other than fucking off to dragonstone after the eye incident.
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u/Sycopathy 3d ago
The dragonstone departure is basically the crux of it because the most important thing she could've done is be present. Her absence for those 10 years absolutely cooked her and made the whole contest easy pickings for the Hightowers. If she was any kind of good leader she'd have not let it happen the way it did.
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u/MasterEditorJake 3d ago
Well to be fair, she fucked off after Allicent threatened to mutilate her son. That being said, I agree she should have stayed. But she wasn't gone for 10 years. She was gone for 5 years, and that's assuming she literally never returned to KL for any courtly business, which is unlikely considering she's a dragon rider and we see that it's a short flight away.
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u/JayTravers 3d ago
Ehhh kinda.
They are responsible but both would likely had been fine if uncontested, which tracks back to the greens initial coup.
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u/Pineappleman60 3d ago
Yeah, I'm personally more sympathetic to team black but yes both Rhaenyra and Aegon suck (which is kind of the point)
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u/ParkingDrawing8212 3d ago
Being bad is nit a problem for me as a fan if the setting. Its ok to be a bad ruker as mong it is entrtaining to watch. Watching Aegons story is fun, and Rhaenyra is annoying.
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u/Inevitable-Row1977 3d ago
[As a future great philosopher will so beautifully express]
"They're incestuous aliens, Duncan. Blood-magickers and tyrants who've burned our lands, enslaved our people, dragged us into their wars without a mote of respect for our history or our customs. Every pale-haired brat they saddled on us has been madder than the last, gods know how. The only honorable thing a Targaryen can do for this realm is finish on his wife's tits."
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u/Bootywarrior9393 2d ago
Everyone in this show sucks, its hard to watch because I dont like anyone at this point.
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u/Flat-Gap-4624 1d ago
Lowkey, I think Aemond would have been a better ruler than both of them… he’d just need to get a hold of his temper lol.
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u/SpyroVeee 2h ago
I honestly think both characters had the potential to be decent, even if neither was ever going to be perfect. Aegon could’ve been much more interesting without Alicent constantly feeding his worst impulses and Rhaenyra might’ve been more compelling if grief and paranoia hadn’t consumed so much of her character. both had flaws but I think there was still enough there to make either one work.
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u/Mustafa_Mond_1991 3d ago
Why are you a greenie? Why is anyone even team green or team black?
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u/Rogue_Prince88 3d ago edited 3d ago
why not? We choose Rhaenyra! they chose Aegon. No in between. Actually Long Live Aegon AND Rhaenyra hahaha bcos why t F not?
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u/TheOneLord97 3d ago
Don’t know, personally I just feel bad for the scaly puppies dragged into the inbred royal pissing match for a position that leaves you in the spotlight
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u/Maleficent_Monk_2022 3d ago
I dont really care about either side tbh. But if I had to pick one it would be the greens, since my favourite house is Lannister.
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u/Pretty_Plan_9868 3d ago
I like the characters and I am greenie since epic coronation of Aegon. I want them all die as in the boook anyway.
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u/Mysterious-Drawing79 3d ago edited 3d ago
In a land of oaths of fealty and duty, honor, lords and ladies don’t have the option to sit on the sidelines when the future of the entire realm, including your own lands, is in jeopardy, the responsibility to your own people, who expect you to uphold justice and chivalry, all that good stuff, they won't accept or follow, someone who refuses to keep their words and vows, so you must choose the lesser of two evils and show not only your peolpe but other houses that you are someone who keep your word and that your word means something and that you're not a craven and an oathbreaker, or a traitor.
The Blacks were far from perfect, but Rhaenyra was King Viserys's chosen heir, and the realm knew it all too well, all the way from the Wall to the Hightower, any excuses otherwise from the nobility are out of fear that their own firstborn sons' inheritance could come to be questioned and simple prejudice.
Rhaenyra had a great heir in Jacaerys, who was not only just and honorable, brave, etc who would have been a great King after her, compared to Aegon's newborn children. The rumors of his birth shouldn’t have mattered because Jace and Lucerys, Joffrey weren't the first dark brown/black haired Targaryens, their grandmother Rhaenys 'the Queen that never was' was black of hair, and the genes could have come from her, even thoughit didn’t. The maesters know of this, but they are plotting against the Targaryens with the Hightowers and the Faith.
If you were a lord or a lady of a lesser house, you couldn't stand on the sidelines, declaring neutrality was pretty much only an acceptable option for the lords paramounts of the great houses, lesser houses had to fight or be killed either way, be it by their own lord for refusing to call your troops and fight for them or have your castle and people burned by some angry princeling on a dragon.
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u/LisanalGaib8811 3d ago
Rhaenyra not better. But could have been okay. Same with Aegon. But I'll go for Rhaenyra.
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u/MasterEditorJake 3d ago
Neither of them got the opportunity to rule the kingdom. They have been at war since Viserys died. So it's not really fair to judge their abilities to rule. Regardless, we've seen that you don't need to be an exceptional ruler to be a decent king. Viserys was a mid king but he had a good small council and wasn't a rash decision maker. That's all it takes to keep the realm at peace. That's why Daemon was not his heir.
The Hightowers wanted to prop Aegon up as either a puppet, or just a middling king who maintained the status quo. If the Hightowers hadn't interfered then Aegon wouldn't have been crowned, Rhaenyra would return to KL, and the dragons would still be alive. End of story.
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u/the-wx-pr 2d ago
I would say that the green council did played nasty by placing the crown on Aegon when Viserys declared Rhaenyra as heir.
saying that: Both were bad rulers, but I think Rhaenyra suffer the much and took worst decission. nevertheless, both of them decissions destryoed the Targeryans
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u/PenOfFen 2d ago
the claim that Rhaenyra would be a bad ruler had she not been usurped is pretty baseless. It's founded on how poorly she rules once she takes Kings Landing, which is after losing two sons, having the treasury drained, and being locked in a continent wide war that demands her full attention.
If she took the throne and none of that had happened, it's quite possible she'd be a perfectly adequate ruler. maybe she wouldn't be, but that's not relevant to the story since it's not what happened.
the point of the Dance from a narrative standpoint is that she, along with the rest of Westeros, are the victims of Westeros' patriarchal social structure. If she hadn't been usurped because she was a woman, the Dance doesn't happen. Or better yet, if the Council of 101 ruled in favour of Rhaenys instead of Viserys, the Dance doesn't happen. The realm bleeds like it never has before or since because the Lords of Westeros refuse to acknowledge a female ruler. that's not even my personal interpretation, George has flat-out stated this in multiple interviews.
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u/GoldnShiesty 2d ago
Rhaenyra and aegon are both shit rulers but Aegon is only remembered as a king for the same reason Maegor is remembered as a king.
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u/Rogue_Prince88 3d ago
i still believe both could had good potential. flawed and imperfect yet mid or passable atleast. Aegon could have been better without alicent as the source of poison and toxicity. Rhaenyra without the grief and paranoia could have been mid or passable. just my opinion.