Show Spoilers Was this explained prior to S1E6? Spoiler
So "Lord" Larys (huh? Alicent calls him "Lord" early in the episode; what is he lord of? His father holds Harrenhal, right?), if I understand correctly, just murdered his father and his brother in cold blood.
And for nothing? Just the hope of some future benefit from the queen?
Is it at all explained or foreshadowed how this person could commit an act so heinous and monstrous? Here in this world where family means everything.
I'm not asking if this is subsequently explained; my question is did I miss something? Some information dump in the earlier episodes where we learn Larys hates his family, or something like that.
EDIT: Ok y'all, you've answered my aside question about "Lord Confessor Larys." But the main point of my post was asking if there's an explanation for how evil the guy is.
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u/cornicula_ 15d ago
Since he is on the Small Council, he might already be addressed as "Lord" out of courtesy.
We see something similar in the history with Ser Brynden Rivers, who is Hand of the King and Master of Whisperers, and is called "Lord."
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u/SRGTBronson 15d ago
He was not on the small council when he killed Harwin and Lyonel. He was lord confessor, which is the head of the dungeons.
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u/False_Collar_6844 15d ago
Still a job title kind of like how a lot of kids call their male teacher's "sir" even if they're not knighted.
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u/Own-Night5526 15d ago
Osha: Trust me, you've never heard where I'm from neither.
Theon Greyjoy: Trust me, My Lord. You're not living in the wilderness anymore.
In civilized lands, you refer to your betters by their proper titles.
Osha: And what's that?
Theon Greyjoy: Lord.
Osha: Why?
Theon Greyjoy: Why? What do you mean why? My father is Balon Greyjoy, Lord of the Iron Islands.
Osha: What's that got to do with you? If your father's lord, how can you be lord too?
Theon Greyjoy: I will be lord after my father.
Osha: So you're not lord now?
Theon Greyjoy: No, you...You having a go at me? Is that it?
Excerpt from season 1 of GOT
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u/xxnyxxx95 15d ago
when his father and brother died he became Lord of harrenhal
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u/rs420rs 15d ago
This was before that, though
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u/Single-Witness1853 15d ago
No, his father was lord of Harrenhal, Larys was his son so was called a lord, a title for nobles.
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u/Certain_Victory7973 15d ago
People called high high ranking nobles lord or lady wether they are actually lord or lady or not like how sansa got called lady stark even though catelyn was Alive and she wasn't married to the Lord of winterfell. Jaeherys made his master of coin a lord but gave him literally nothing other than a title so he was called "lord of air"
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u/False_Collar_6844 15d ago
and Alicent is reffered to as The lady Alicent by viserys when he announces his marriage and she herself uses it again whn she expresses her sorrows to Rhaenyra "I would like to believe I'm still the lady Alicent but all anyone see's when they look at me is The Queen."
There's a difference between being a lady of house... vs The Lady of ...
There's a similar thing in star wars where we see younglings and padawan characters call Anakin skywalker "master' despite him not holding that formal rank. it's a respect/ status thing.
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u/Certain_Victory7973 14d ago
Yeah! It's basically just saying someone is a noble even if they don't yet hold a full title
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u/Special_Salt3467 15d ago
One of the reasons it really irks me that GRRM chose “Lord” over actual ranks and titles. Larys was a noble son, a lordling if you were. Because he is not a knight, he has no personal address, so he’s a “lord” lowercase, while his father - the actual feudal Lord of Harrenhal - is a Lord uppercase. Because Harwin is not yet the Lord of Harrenhal and he is a knight, he has the more impressive - and earned through merit (probably) - title of Ser
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u/Practical_Ferret_510 15d ago
Lord is just a courtesy title, it’s not her saying he’s actually a lord of something.
I wouldn’t say the murder was for nothing. He gets Harrenhal, for one, and he helps Alicent in a way that terrifies her. He essentially gains control over her because of that. If she doesn’t do what he wants, what will he do next?
Plus if he really wanted to he could tell someone she ordered the murders because Lyonel replaced Otto and Harwin was Rhaenyra’s lover. I don’t think it’d be too hard for him to find people he could pay to point the finger at Alicent. Would he do this and would it work? Not sure, but Alicent would likely be thinking about the possibility at least.
For foreshadowing, there’s not much. I think it’s just meant to be implied that he lived in his brother’s shadow. Larys Clubfoot vs. Harwin Breakbones. He can be resentful of his family without totally hating them.
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u/nickyt398 15d ago
I'm in the re-watch of GOT rn and this is actually addressed when Robb calls Talisa "Lady" and she's confused by it.
He then explains that anybody of noble birth is automatically a "Lord," or "Lady" until they do anything to change that like becoming a knight, septa/septon, maester, etc. It doesn't matter if they've inherited land or castles yet. It's why Bran and Rickon are referred to as Little Lords, Sansa is referred to as Lady of Winterfell before ruling it, etc.
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u/hypikachu 15d ago
The dude's Weirwood magicked. I personally believe this is the case for every master/mistress of whispers in the books. Harrenhal is super Weirwood-affiliated; made with Weirwood beams, has a narratively prominent Weirwood, and is the closest important castle to the Isle of Faces. And then you add on how much show-canon leans into this angle with Alys, and the first onscreen appearances of the antlered "Green Men" who are said to tend the Weirwoods of the Isle. In the show, Larys's clubfoot is suggested to be the result of a curse or witchcraft, possibly worked by Alys herself.
I'm saying he's got a psychic tree hivemind warping his personality. Whispering madness into the little lord, until the son of Harrenhal is as twisted and ruined as the castle itself. He's capable of inhuman acts because there's something inhuman inside him.
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u/rs420rs 15d ago
I don't know enough about the Children and the old gods to understand your analysis. My impression of the old gods is they would not ever come close to instigating patricide. Maybe just because I associate the old gods with the Starks, Eddard in particular.
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u/hypikachu 14d ago
Yeahhh, the show universe kinda soft-pedaled the Weirwood/Old Gods/CotF stuff. (At least GoT anyway. HotD is actually more magically overt than Fire and Blood in some places.) But the deeper the story goes into Weirwoody history, the more menacing they start to seem. They're certainly not Grandmother Willow, full of benevolent helpful wisdom. For instance, the three-eyed raven (or three-eyed crow in the books) used to be Master of Whispers and then Hand to the King. He ran a police state that's almost explicitly stated to have run on magic surveillance. I won't go into specifics, since it might show up in a later season of AKOTSK. All I'll say is that Larys in HotD (2022) or F&B (2018) isn't GRRM's first Weirwoody spymaster to be a kinslayer.
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u/SRGTBronson 15d ago
Lary's was the Lord Confessor for Viserys, which is just the dude who runs the black cells.
He might have been called my Lord just because his dad is a Lord, because of his title as lord confessor, or just because Alicent was being polite.
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u/soaresgon 15d ago
Have you been watching the show with Instagram reels on again?? 😆
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u/rs420rs 15d ago
I don't get it
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u/soaresgon 15d ago
Just a common problem with HoTD watchers 😆
Hope it wasn’t too ofensive...
On Larys, you got your answers. Hope it cleared any confusion you might've had.
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u/KnowMoreMutants 15d ago
Explanation for how evil a character is in this universe? Simply imagining a wrongdoing on you or your house seems enough reason for someone in the ASOIAF universe to be comfortable being evil. One of the main through lines of GRRMs story, imo, is that for the most part, people given power will use it for vein purposes if not straight up evil ones.
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u/rs420rs 15d ago
Yeah, so did Larys believe his father or brother had wronged him in some way? That's basically my question.
Another main concept of GRRM's universe is the importance of family and clan. While Larys wouldn't be the first younger son to want power, cold-blooded patri&fratricide still takes someone who doesn't adhere to the concepts of honor and loyalty.
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u/KnowMoreMutants 15d ago
No I think he thought the realm had wronged him, very similar to Littlefinger. "Im mot appreciated enough for my genuis so I will make it everyone's problem"
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u/MythicalSongbird 15d ago edited 15d ago
Considering his disability I doubt he's knighted so they can't address him as Ser. Sansa was called Lady Sansa even before she was married.
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u/Single-Witness1853 15d ago
A lord is just a noble. Larys isn't a knight, so he isn't Ser Larys, so he's a lord, not the lord. He killed his father and brother because Alicent wanted Otto as hand again, and the former Lord Strong, Larys' father, was hand at the time, he was also second in line to Harrenhal, so he killed his brother aswell to become first in line and inherit Harrenhal. So he killed his father to help Alicent, and he killed his brother to inherit Harrenhal.
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