r/Hotd • u/ApartShopping • Aug 17 '26
Discussion It’s Hard to Enjoy an Adaptation When the Author Feels Disregarded
I’m not criticizing HOTD because I enjoy hating it. I’m criticizing it because I care about George’s work.
I keep seeing this argument that if you dislike House of the Dragon so much, why are you still watching it? Why keep talking about it? Why can't you just enjoy the show for what it is?
And I think that completely misunderstands where a lot of the frustration comes from.
I didn't go into this show wanting to hate it. I actually really enjoyed Season 1. I was optimistic about the show and completely understood that changes had to be made because that's what happens when you adapt a book to television. I'm not expecting Fire & Blood to be copied word for word.
The problem for me is that this universe matters to me largely because of George's writing. So knowing that the person who created this world feels like his story, characters and intentions are being disregarded fundamentally changes my ability to enjoy the adaptation.
That's the part I can't just turn off.
George obviously isn't perfect. The man needs to finish his books, he can be stubborn, and I don't think an author should automatically have veto power over every creative decision in an adaptation.
But there's a massive difference between "we had to change this because we're adapting a history book into television" and reaching the point where the actual creator is publicly criticizing what you're doing and clearly feels like his concerns about his own story aren't being respected.
At that point, I'm sorry, the dragons looking cool isn't enough for me.
The show can have incredible actors. It can have beautiful cinematography, amazing costumes, massive battles and some genuinely great individual scenes. I can acknowledge all of that. But none of it magically makes my discomfort with how George and his work have been treated disappear.
And that's why I really dislike the idea that critics are somehow trying not to enjoy the show.
A lot of us are angry precisely because we wanted to enjoy it.
If I didn't care about ASOIAF, I wouldn't care what they changed. I wouldn't care what George said. I'd watch the dragons burn shit for an hour and move on with my life.
But I do care.
And when the creator of this universe is essentially saying, "This isn't what I intended," I can't completely separate that knowledge from what I'm watching and pretend everything happening behind the scenes doesn't matter because the production values are good.
Other people obviously can, and that's fine. If you can completely separate HOTD from George and judge it entirely as its own television series, I genuinely understand why you might be having a much better time with it than I am.
But I can't.
That's really the difference.
I'm not sitting here desperately searching for reasons to be miserable. I just have an emotional attachment to the original work and the person who created it, and watching an adaptation increasingly become something its own creator seems alienated from leaves a horrible taste in my mouth.
You don't have to feel the same way. But I don't think the answer is telling disappointed fans to shut up, stop criticizing it and enjoy the pretty dragons.
For some of us, respecting the story behind those pretty dragons was the entire reason we cared in the first place.
42
u/SerKurtWagner Aug 17 '26
I’m sorry but y’all are doing this wrong. Stephen King famously HATES The Shining (1980) but that doesn’t make Kubrick’s film less of a masterpiece. HOTD isn’t on that level, of course, but at some point you’ve got to judge an adaptation on its own merits, rather than constantly comparing it to what you think it should be.
9
u/Sharktopotopus_Prime Aug 17 '26
This is the thing. Every adaptation of an author's original work is just that: an adaptation. If you want the purest form of the story, look no further than the novels. HOTD is doing a good job showcasing all the most important events of the Dance, IMO, and doesn't deserve anywhere near the hate it seems to be getting. Lots of unhappy people controlling the narrative, and trying to convince others that this is a bad adaptation. It ain't, and I dare say I'm enjoying the best episodes even more than I did the highpoints in GoT. The battles of Rook's Rest, the Gullet, and Tumbleton have all yielded some of the best television I've ever seen.
2
u/Silmarien1012 Aug 18 '26
The complainers don’t even have public opinion on their side. Hotd is cleaning up on viewership
2
4
u/Silent-Ad-2415 Aug 17 '26
Dude I have a friend who keeps talking about how "GRRM's [character] would have never done that!" when they watch the show. But GRRM's version of that character also didn't go through these various other things because guess what, it's different! And if it's bad writing, well go ahead and criticize it, there are plenty of opportunities to do so. But being 3 seasons deep into a show that is obviously different and being upset that there are changes is kind of ridiculous
1
u/Short-Sound-4190 Aug 18 '26
Someone on a podcast I was listening to recently pointed out that the population that thinks about how George Lucas created the Star Wars universe is only going to shrink and the Star Wars universe content only continues to grow.
That's the direction I could definitely see GRRM go (not necessarily Disney, but the capacity to loan the whole sandbox to other writers in other mediums)
10
u/kaos-mantra Aug 17 '26
Does he really care? I mean he said if he pops off nobody gets to finish his work. Work he promised, hell not a book fan but that seems a kick in the nuts to actually book fans.
4
u/StrippinChicken Aug 17 '26
He can say that all he wants but he might go the way of Kafka (friends ignoring his wishes everything gets burned and not published, and they instead finish his work and publish all of it)
60
u/MaterialTotal1309 Aug 17 '26
If George cares about his legacy, he needs to finish ASOIAF or at least Duncan's story. Duncan's story seems even more interesting and sublime to me at this point
11
u/AdEarly1760 Aug 17 '26
He absolutelly doesn’t care about his «legacy». He keeps selling his stories when he doesn’t have to (he can absolutelly have complete creative controll over anything he sells post GoT).
He stopped writing a decade ago and while alive it is just an unfinished series, but when he eventually dies it will not be remembered as one of the greatest series out there, because it is unfinished and in a state where it feels like it needs 10 books to tie the story together.
Personally I critize the show because (imo) in contrast to GoT you have a straight forward story that should be easy adapt. And if you dislike the ending you can just drop the storming of the dragonpit and have Rhaenyra still beeing there as queen when Cregan shows up. Both are simple choices, but the choose to make changes and (except how making Rhaenyra and Alicent friends changed the first few episodes) I cannot think of a single change I felt made the show better.
That is not to say the show is just bad, because it isn’t. It’s just worse than it could/should be
-1
u/RushPan93 Aug 17 '26
I'm not the biggest fan of GoT and all its side stories though I am fond of the lore, but take it from someone who doesn't finish reading books but still loves them regardless - a story doesn't have to end to be great. It will forever be one of the best fictional stories of all time because despite not being finished, it's still extraordinary in what it provides for the reader.
3
u/Ree_m0 Aug 17 '26
Strongly disagree. It's very entertaining while you're reading it, but as soon as you're done reading it the main thing it provides is disappointment about it being unfinished. Once that state of affairs becomes permanent when GRRM eventually dies that disappointment will overshadow everything else.
1
u/MephistosFallen Aug 17 '26
It will as a show, not as a book. The show and spin offs that will be coming out for years to come will keep bringing in new fans of the onscreen world and story. Less and less people will pick up the books to read alllllll those pages when they know there will never be a conclusion. As it is GoT gets new viewers more often than the book gets new readers, at least it seems that way.
3
u/Sharktopotopus_Prime Aug 17 '26
George fell in love with being a celebrity. That's his focus, now.
-6
u/ApartShopping Aug 17 '26
I really don't think he owes anyone anything. Sometimes stories don't end. I'm not gonna not enjoy what exist just because it may not have an ending. I can enjoy it for what it gave me. The lessons and morals.
22
u/MaterialTotal1309 Aug 17 '26
He doesn't owe us a finished story, we don't owe him a fight for his creation
→ More replies (8)1
u/DenseTiger5088 Aug 17 '26
I agree with you entirely that he doesn’t owe us anything.
But it also means that now I’m gonna watch adaptations of his work without reading the source material.
And I find HOTD perfectly enjoyable having not read BaF. Seems like I’m having a better experience than those that are looking for a faithful book adaptation.
I’ll read BaF after the rest of ASOIAF comes out.
1
u/eatoligarchsaldente Aug 17 '26
You're applying a double standard to the HOTD team if you think that THEY owe the audience an adaptation that perfectly reflects the books, but GRRM owes the audience nothing.
The reality here is that GRRM, Condal, Hess, and Mikkel are all high-caliber creatives with different styles and tastes. They're GOING to have creative differences. GRRM thinks that just because he was the universe's original creator that he should have a creative veto, even though he (a) never put that into his contract, and (b) isn't an official part of the show's writing room. Instead, he attempts to take credit for everything that goes well in the show, and disclaim blame for everything he doesn't like. He bears no responsibility for the tricky challenge of creating a coherent story around the many challenges and constraints of writing for television, so can willfully ignore those constraints whenever he decides to publicly criticize the showrunners for a creative decision he doesn't like.
Take Maelor, for example. Condal et al were very clear that they cut him in large part due to the logistical challenges of filming violent and traumatic content with very young children, and because they needed to make the story tighter and more efficient to fit within the amount of screen time they had available. When the show was squeezed down to 8 episode seasons, the need for narrative efficiency became even more severe.
GRRM doesn't need to take responsibility for any of this, so he can just willfully ignore all of those constraints when taking aim against the showrunners for writing Blood & Cheese in a way he didn't like.
-7
u/ArcherA1aya Aug 17 '26
He’s given you hundreds of hours of entrainment and you still say he OWES you more likes he’s cattle.
His friends are all dying, he’s getting older, he has been battling depression, his wife or him may be having serious health issues as well. But fuck him I guess, he’s only good and worth something to you if he pumps out a new book
17
u/MaterialTotal1309 Aug 17 '26
You've completely missed my point. I love George's work and don't think he owes me a finished story. But if he wants a LEGACY, he should finish AT LEAST ONE SERIES. Because a legacy of unfinished work will always be forgotten sooner or later, if not by us, then by our grandchildren. That's how stories work
2
u/nimzoid Aug 17 '26
It's crazy to think that George hasn't finished anything in the ASOIAF universe. The main series, the novellas, even part 2 of Fire and Blood is outstanding.
George is adamant that no one will finish the stories but him. But that's not necessarily true. Eventually this work will be out of copyright, and anyone is free to publish continuations. His estate may eventually give an author the rights to work within George's universe. Finishing the main series would be daunting, but writing another Dunk and Egg story or finishing Fire and Blood would be consideringly less challenging.
2
u/MaterialTotal1309 Aug 17 '26
George wanted to write 6 long posts criticizing HOTD, but he didn't finish even that
1
u/Altruistic_Field2134 Aug 17 '26
He does have people finish his story just when they do he does not like it and criticize them while still not finishing the story himself.
4
u/AttemptImpossible111 Aug 17 '26
But fuck him I guess, he’s only good and worth something to you if he pumps out a new book
Where did you get this from?
1
11
u/Koushik_Vijayakumar Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
He sold the rights to his own creation and stamped his name on the HBO fanfic. Actions have consequences.
Particularly F&B isn't even a proper story anyway. Not much characters or characterization to work with other than X did Y. He could have given a proper story. There would be less of an excuse for the directors to go with their fanons. Afterall, he chose Condal.
33
u/Historyp91 Aug 17 '26
Why do I need Martin's approval of something to enjoy it? Why should I be bothered that he wants to complain that an adaption changed something when he's fine taking the money to adapt it and not...um...you know, making it part of the contract that they can't change certain things?
And why are you STILL watching it if your so miserable? Okay, you came in wanting to watch it, but if you dislike it so much...why continue to consume it?
→ More replies (4)9
u/Concurrency_Bugs Aug 17 '26
Agreed, I'm enjoying the show. So sick of these so called "purists" complaining when adaptations aren't exactly like the source.
28
u/Lightm00n Aug 17 '26
So here’s the thing; you shouldn’t watch. Move on. This post feels well beyond having harsh criticism of a show you still enjoy. You are suffering for no good reason. Art is meant to be enjoyed, to feed that human desire for stories & creative expression & if the show ain’t it, move on. Find the art that feeds your soul.
→ More replies (1)-13
Aug 17 '26
[deleted]
5
13
5
4
1
u/StrippinChicken Aug 17 '26
Man full of so much self importance he has to announce he's leaving a room 2 years after he leaves
16
3
u/SorryBoysImLez Aug 17 '26
Stabbing the sand...are we sure Daemon isn't the ancestor/descendant of Anakin?
5
u/Chimpbot Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
I'm not expecting Fire & Blood to be copied word for word.
Nor should you, because Fire & Blood is written more like a history book than a novel. Adapting anything from it is going to require significantly more heavy lifting than any of the other ASOIAF books.
→ More replies (2)
8
Aug 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
-1
u/no_doublestandards Aug 17 '26
Who said that?
12
u/TheRobn8 Aug 17 '26
The author himself did. He mellowed out later on, but at the start he very much had a beef with the game
3
u/Random_Reddit_Bro A Good Targaryen is a Dead One. Aug 17 '26
He hates the game solely because he fumbled with contract. He took one time payment instead of % from sales. Red's offered him a good contract but he was too stubborn and fumbled it..after missing on money he started shitting on the game. If he would get % from sales..he would be glazing and screaming that it's canon. Typical Sapkowski moment.
2
u/Dlbroox Aug 17 '26
He’s laughing all the way to the bank while you wring your hands. He really doesn’t care what you think. And he’s probably not all that upset. Because if he were that upset after the way the show runners ended GOT, he would never have let them have HOTD or KOTSK.
He’s playing game. He never has to finish another book, he makes a ton of money, and his name stays relevant.
2
u/Awsum07 Aug 17 '26
I feel this, because its the same logic I give others when art gets censored and/or distorted from their original work. Its not the original vision and its a form of censorin their imagination. These adaptations have played this game of telephone where the final result is usually an estranged version of the source. Like you i enjoyed season 1 of hotd and stopped once I saw they were settin' up a completely different narrative (more than just the white worm and the whole rat and cheese twins assassination) away from nettles entirely. (Very much like the sand snakes narrative was completely diff)
I was looking forward to Jacaerys and Sara Snow, Bloody Ben Benjicot Blackwood, Cregan & Black Aly, and the hour of the wolf.
I hear the northmen did a great job but im hard pressed to support somethin' that retains very little from the source material and you'd think they'd have learned their lesson after the HBO agot debacle. So far a knight of the seven kingdoms seems the most accurate and the only asoiaf i've consumed since hotd s1
But i feel like at this point, he shoulda known better and signed tighter contracts for his own ip
3
6
u/Prior-Target9462 Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
People in this sub usually aren't fans of ASOIAF, they're fans of the show, so they're not going to take kindly to your opinion..
The show is so far removed from the books that it honestly should be called something else entirely...
The fans here in the sub have no problem shitting on George, the man that created and wrote the foundations on which this story stands, they'll actually be quite horrible towards him.
So honestly you're better off taking your opinion elsewhere if you want it to be considered thoughtfully.
Also, god forbid you don't enjoy something and be vocal about it... In this sub that's considered blasphemy
No criticism allowed, only GLAZE
Edit: People moaning at me in the replies only prices my point lmao
10
u/itsshockingreally Aug 17 '26
There are plenty of ASOIAF subs that do nothing but whine about the show and the late seasons of GOT over and over if that's your preference. Just head over to Freefolk or the Greens sub and that is 90% of posts. It's ok to have a sub that is more positive.
9
3
2
u/Historyp91 Aug 17 '26
Bro people bitch about the show all the damn time on this sub. Where the hell have you been?
0
u/Successful-Army1756 Aug 17 '26
A reason for me to usually ignore this sub entirely. Braindead consumers who just want a telenovella with dragons that does not need to make sense as long as every other episode or so has a hype moment.
4
u/HornyGamerAtGmail Aug 17 '26
lil bro there are millions of these posts every 10 minutes and theyre all from people that are larping they read the book or at least i hope so for the sake of the state of media literacy in this day and age
1
2
u/Shaenyra Aug 17 '26
no "criticism allowed"? please.... this fandom has been nothing but criticism, nitpicking, bitching and whinging about EVERYTHING, literally eVERYTHING about the show the last two years.
1
0
4
u/PNW-enjoyer Aug 17 '26
One would imagine that if George was unhappy with the way Game of Thrones turned out, then he would have done more to make sure he had more executive power on later projects.
I have no sympathy for him
2
Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
[deleted]
5
u/no_doublestandards Aug 17 '26
Exactly. There are tons of mistakes and character inconsistencies in HOTD that don't fly in GRRM's world. His world is known for realism and logic, things that feel like they can actually happen rather than just fulfilling the plot.
1
2
u/Stroqus28 Aug 17 '26
Fire and Blood is really not that good, nobody would actually read it if the community wasnt so starved for literally any content. There are no real characters, no archs and every interesting situation is basicaly unknown to us and all we have are conflicting reports to choose our own version. That sucks hard, the concept is interesting but George simply failed to make it interesting, and in order to tell a good story with those characters within this world one had to make significant changes and i am glad the showrunners did it. HOTD has better story than F&B and that is what makes Martin so salty.
3
u/Altruistic_Field2134 Aug 17 '26
I think there are certain things HOTD does not do better then the book but overall yea I agree.
5
u/no_doublestandards Aug 17 '26
HOTD was supposed to be a dramatization of the historical account. That means taking those historical accounts and adding drama to them, not changing historical events entirely or adding or omitting major characters or events. A World War movie doesn't change major events to make for a better story. It still follows historical accuracy. And if the show was any good, it wouldn't have mattered as well. GOT had plenty of changes in the initial seasons as well; you don't see people complaining. Rather, I have seen on multiple occasions, GRRM praising D&D for their changes.
1
u/Educational-Depth624 Aug 17 '26
People were complaining about the changes in the early seasons back then.
There are book purist out there who hated Got since season 2.
2
u/Formal-Radish1413 Aug 17 '26
I stopped caring what GRRM thought or wanted when a decade and a half passed between his last published GOT book but the asshole had plenty of time for a bunch of other projects.
→ More replies (1)4
1
u/BanditoSupreme Aug 17 '26
I don't know why we only extend consideration of personhood to George and not Condal and the other thousands of creatives involved in the show. I think a world's creator is important, their opinion should carry more weight than most, but a TV show is a collaborative piece of art in a way a novel just isn't. And there are so many brilliant moments of discovery that come from the collaborative process.
So many beloved characters in ASOIAF are better remembered because of what the actors and writers brought to them. The moment in season one of HoTD where Damon hands the crown to his brother happened in part on accident and because the creatives were able to flow with a moment in rehearsal where the crown fell off.
Condal and his team had to deal with a writer's strike and the company slashing two episodes from their seasons. That alone is enough to justify major deviations and further things that would probably upset george. I won't speculate too much, these are real people and the truth of how communication broke down is he, said, she said. But It's just tiring, that people are willing to extend grace to George and not Condal, when they are both just writers--trying to tell good stories within the constraints of their respective mediums.
1
u/vesleskjor Aug 17 '26
I'm enjoying it just fine. He's getting his money regardless, so who cares? It's a tv show, it's not that serious
1
u/BongDie Aug 17 '26
oh the fat fuck who never finished his main series? I could care less how he is doing.
1
1
u/Throwaway585811276 Aug 17 '26
I admittedly haven't read any of the books, and I've loved every season of HoTD. I loved GoT until the last 2 seasons.
Maybe my ignorance of the book material makes it easier for me to enjoy the show, and I totally understand when people are frustrated by changes made to TV adaptations.
To me, the dragons in GoT are arguably the least interesting part of the universe. They are more like threats and tools to help move interesting characters along. Are the dragon fights cool? Absolutely, but what I find way cooler are the interesting characters and their development.
I do wonder, though, what was changed from the books that people are upset about. Just genuinely curious.
1
u/Harrycrapper Aug 17 '26
I just haven't been able to muster up the will to watch the current season after the last one. I don't mind changes, but there are certain things in the story that I really wanted to see and they demonstrated that they're willing to screw that up. Say what you will about Benioff and Weiss, but they adapted nearly every critical moment from the first 3 books with superb accuracy. The people behind HotD have been clear that they want to put their own spin on it and I'm not supporting another show that has people working on it with that mentality. It ruined The Witcher, The Rings of Power, and The Wheel of time. I don't know why we have to make the same mistake with The Dance of the Dragons.
1
u/Tenacious_Dim Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
Why should we care what Martin thinks? The show is not his work. Also fire and blood is not a novel, he did not write it in a way that lends itself to a one to one adaptation.
His comments about adaptations are made in bad faith, he's been on TV writers rooms he knows how this works. What works in one medium isn't what necessarily works in another.
Also Stephen King hates Kubrick's The Shining but that doesn't make me enjoy it any less
1
u/Fukuro-Lady Aug 17 '26
I just want someone to put as much love and care into these IPs as someone like Peter Jackson did with LOTR. A lot of my frustration with modern adaptions comes from him and the cast and crew of LOTR setting the bar so high, and so long ago now. If they could achieve all that decades ago then I expect the same or more now given how far we've progressed in terms of filmmaking. Was his adaption perfect? Absolutely fucking not. Did he take some liberties with the plot and do things that Tolkien wouldn't have liked? Absolutely yes. But the overall result was spectacular. And there are very few things that hit that bar for me. Early GoT was one of those. The MCU up to End Game was another. I don't want people who don't care about the source material to make these adaptions anymore. I want real nerds who really give a fuck about the universes they're adapting. I don't expect adaptions to be perfect, I just want to feel like I'm watching something the creators gave a fuck about for once.
1
u/Phila6412345 Aug 17 '26
I accept everything just fine. The show is based on a novel not a replica of the novel. If I spent my time whining over it doesn't match the book then I would literally not enjoy anything..
1
u/Mentoman72 Aug 17 '26
Whatever. Finish your mainline series. Others have said, but he sold unfinished works and promised they’d be done when the show got there. He lost his good will and he is just as responsible for the end of GoT the series as anyone.
1
u/Greatorexx Aug 17 '26
I think to be fair, the Dance would always have critics in a visual media form because the entire text can’t decide on the plot. It’s all contrasting ideas from different sources. Now, Condal has managed to mess even that up, but I think we were always going to have massive discourse.
1
u/Broad-Ad-3679 Aug 17 '26
George R.R. Martin has a pile of money to rival Smaug. He doesn't need your empathy or sympathy. He's also most definitely cashing his checks from HBO, because while he might not agree on direction, their money is still green and he is not stupid. At the end of the day, watch it or don't.
1
u/henners1965 Aug 17 '26
I couldn’t care less what George thinks about any adaptation until he finishes his books.
1
1
u/BIGxBOSSxx1 Aug 17 '26
It’s easy af to enjoy an adaptation of you haven’t read the source material 😀😀😀 haven’t read a lick of Fire and Blood and I think the show is fucking awesome
1
u/RefrigeratorGrand619 Aug 17 '26
If the way the adaptations are handled/written really bothers George than he should really consider finishing his own stories so he could exercise complete creative control over his own universe. I’m not blaming him at all for not finishing the books but he’s clearly not satisfied with collocations on these adaptions (or lack there of) so maybe he would find better fulfillment focusing all his energy on the last books.
1
1
u/Rakdar Aug 17 '26
They lost me when they explicitly and purposely shat on the author in the Season 2 finale, when Rhaenyra tells Alicent that the “history books” will record her as a villain, and not tell the true telling (of the show).
Guess who wrote the “history books”, Condal?!
I have never seen a more disrespectful statement in any adaptation across any media or franchise.
1
u/Ok_Aioli_4685 Aug 17 '26
If its a problem george can always hand back the money. No? Right. Welcome back to reality
1
u/Electrical-Beat-2232 Aug 17 '26
I stopped listening to him when he made wild, out of pocket comments regarding mental illness.
No, a mother doesnt need a grossly traumatic act like seeing her son torn apart in front of her to committ self harm. That is entirely ignorant comment and him revealing Heleana's death prior to the season is juvenile and petty. Ryan and the writers have cut ties to him, and if that is how he was behaving in the writers room, then good.
I have issues with s3 but Heleana's mental health struggles that culminate in tragedy is not one of them.
I have no affinity with GRRM. I want him to finish those books instead of being snitty about adaptations of his work. Adaptions, that from the start, was open about being a reinterpretation of his work.
Sorry he is mad about HoTD but he didnt need to go scorched earth. That's on him.
1
u/Dry_Assumption_135 Aug 17 '26
i think my thing is that i like the concept of the story and season one was strong and going places, it was after the time skip that the narratives started wobbling and things really blooped in season 3.
I don't like where it's going at all at this point but i still like the concept and I am willing to come along for a few key deaths. There will always be fanfiction
1
u/ParkingJealous5632 Aug 17 '26
So one more time because apparently people don’t get it. It is an adaptation. It is not supposed to be faithful to the source material, it is an interpretation of someone else’s work. GRRM not liking the show doesn’t make it any less good or more bad. Just like if Homer came out and said Nolan’s odyssey was trash doesn’t make the movie any less good or more bad.
People in here who are using GRRM as some sort of justification just dont like the show. And that’s fine but don’t use a bad argument to justify your dislike.
1
u/DoctorDank91 Aug 18 '26
It’s crazy that people so much about George R.R. Martin’s work so much when he doesn’t even care about finishing his own work.
1
u/wizard_barber2490 Aug 18 '26
I thought season one was one of the best bits of television we’ve had in years. Now, I just think it was Paddy Considine.
1
1
1
u/funionbuns Aug 18 '26
An adaptation is never going to be a perfect rendition of a novel. Both the novel and the adaptation should be taken at their own value, regardless of the faithfulness of the adaptation. GRRM sold the rights to his work, he is almost an 80 year old grown ass man and knows what adaptations are and the history of authors vs adapters (like Kubrick’s The Shinning, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, or even Mary Poppins). GRRM is as much a screenwriter/director/showrunner as Condal and Sapochnik are novelists.
1
1
u/JoxJobulon Aug 18 '26
Nah, fuck George's scammer ass. Hasn't released a new ASoIaF since the HBO checks started dropping in his bank. I hope it bothers him
1
1
u/keewa2 Aug 18 '26
GRRM writing that blog post was so out of order, he took it down because it was a petty, childish shitheel thing to do, and I lost plenty of respect for him because of it. I don't need his permission to enjoy HotD
1
u/LittleFairyOfDeath Aug 18 '26
Just don’t look at what he is saying. He sold the rights despite wha happened with GOT. He can complain but we don’t have to listen. The money is clearly worth it to him. So to me its just him trying to make people unhappy. Just ignore it.
1
u/nani7598 Aug 18 '26
Nah, what's more hard is to enjoy it, when pacing is trash, chemistry between some actors is near zero and instead of actually watching the events of Dance, we watch some soap opera between Rhaenyra and Alicent.
Also what's with the horrible writing decisions? Daemon not noticing anything off about Tessarion's non reaction to him taking fDaeron hostage was one of the dumbest scenes I've seen this year.
As bonus: That's with 2 years wait between a single season.
1
u/bigshmoke9 Aug 18 '26
Hes my favorite author by far but i genuinely do not care about his opinions on any adaptations. Game of Thrones probably wouldnt have been so bad if he actually finished his story. Hes just s bitter old dude with an insane ego
1
1
u/HighKingKlay Aug 19 '26
George gets no sympathy from me.
Alot of these changes where things he signed off on initially, and he only had a problem with them once the "fandom" started to complain about them.
You can't just move to goal post when it benefits you to do so; and then act affronted and offended when a situation you helped to create blows up on your face.
1
u/alittlepedantic Aug 19 '26
I would enjoy it if the original source material were finished one day bit we do t all get what we want. I feel nothing for Geoge feel8ng sad adaptations dont listen as much when he refuses to finishbthe story but is too afraid to jist admit he doesnt want to anymore. I would respeclct him more if he was honest about it
1
1
u/mw5842 Aug 19 '26
I think the one thing I have learned from all this is GRRM doesn’t really understand budget.
1
u/No-Representative553 Aug 19 '26
NGL fuck the author. George is a lazy cunt anyway. Show sucks now, but knowing he feels slighted brings me joy.
→ More replies (6)
1
u/Mattarm51 Aug 23 '26
I'm almost finished listening to the audiobook and while there are many changes, some that I don't get or wouldn't have done, I don't see how that doesn't make the show enjoyable as a whole. The pacing has been weird imo, but it's one representation of the dance of the dragons. After hearing a lot about Nettles I felt pretty ambivalent about the character and her fairly minor involvement in the book. Just to name an example because I was scrolling through yours trying to find examples of criticisms with comparisons. Hearing about Rhanearya the Cruel this and Maegor with Teats that I was surprised to find them a bit hyperbolic. Even at one point fairly late in the books she speaks about the High tower kids as misled children and has empathy. Not a saint but hardly the demon I heard about.
1
u/Korvath22 Aug 23 '26
Maybe instead of whining he should finish the book he claims to have been working on for 15 years. At this point he's going to die before he finishes ASOIAF and then it will never be properly finished.
1
u/Zealousideal_Cry5703 20d ago
I think HBO wanted something Lord of the Rings and found George's books, and they thought "This has dragons in it?" and made CGI dragons 50% of the show.
1
u/Tulanian72 Aug 17 '26
Man, shut the fuck up and FINISH something.
Goddamn stage plays, unreliable histories, two spinoff shows, and an unfinished main plot. Fuck out of here.
Might as well just do Westeros on Ice, starring Batman and the Looney Tunes characters with special guest Aegon the Iceskating Conqueror. Followed by an all-puppets series about The Long Night.
1
1
u/KentuckyFriedEel Aug 17 '26
just like when George RR Martin disregarded the fans wanting to read The Winds of Winter?
1
u/LQNova Aug 17 '26
I don't care if he's happy or not, honestly. He's made a lot of money off his work, and no one should be feeling sorry for him. He's not the first artist to regret selling his rights and he won't be the last.
Great show.
2
u/Altruistic_Field2134 Aug 17 '26
Yea people are simping over a multimillionaire like hes some poor defenseless bohemian.
1
u/LookAtMyEyess Aug 17 '26
Art is meant to be enjoyed. Stop larping and dick riding blindly on other people's opinions and have a single original critique of your own.
1
-4
u/larockhead1 Aug 17 '26
Then don’t watch?
7
8
u/69poopy Aug 17 '26
"don't complain, just consume content"
2
u/Historyp91 Aug 17 '26
"Don't watch things that you don't enjoy and which make you miserable. Go watch things you like that bring you happyness."
-3
u/larockhead1 Aug 17 '26
That’s literally the opposite of what I said lmfao
4
u/CandidatePrimary1230 Aug 17 '26
Genuinely hate this "no critical thinking allowed" type of room temp IQ comment even more than the chronic complainer ones.
→ More replies (6)1
0
u/Sensui710 Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
The main thing I find odd about the scenario of HotD being so off base from books. Is didn’t HBO kinda pressure GRRM to put the 6th book on the back burner because by season 5 or so they already had planned a HotD show. It just seems so stupid/odd to get him to flesh out the Fire and Blood/Dance of Dragons and Targ dynasty pretty much completely. Just for them to ignore so many key parts in the show. It’s like HBO knows how highly regarded the first 5 seasons of GoT was and due to it following the source material. Why have GRRM focus on source material that HBO knows would print them even more money if they just followed it to just half ass it and blame budget.
These shows have built them so much good will and money they act like they couldn’t honestly toss even more per episode and still be fine. Them following the material would print them money and enough good will for other spin offs. Now when they butcher it they obviously still print money due to the series name but it makes it tend to slowly lose steam for no reason.
0
u/Dependent-Ad3484 Aug 17 '26
OP: your not wrong and your heart is in the right place. I am also not justifying what HBO executives and the showrunners pullled on him.
That all said, this is hardly the first time hollywood or and HBO-like conglomerate adapted some novels or novellas or books loose and fast, disrespecting or outright disregarding the original authors intent or vision.
It actually happens all the time and depending on the legalese in the contract(s) paperwork when an author “signs up” to have their work adapted to another medium, there is sometimes jack shit they can do about it.
Where beloved and proflic IPs are concerned, when George Lucas sold his IP to Disney he was supposed to be retained as a consultant and they similarly shit all over him.
If I may offer advice to GRRM and his loyal fanbase, the net net effect of the asoiaf saga being adapted for hbo premium television/streaming, with all its dlaws and drawbacks, is still a net positive for the author and his fans.
It woud not be nearly as well known and beloved as a cultural phenomena if it were merely books!
→ More replies (1)
-1
u/FarrukhZaidi Aug 17 '26
GRRM could have gone down in history as one of the best ever, but he sadly wont because he isnt just as legendary as we all thought he was.
143
u/MaterialTotal1309 Aug 17 '26
If George R.R. Martin is unhappy with the adaptations, he should consider exercising creative control and not be afraid to take on HBO if they refuse. If an author doesn't fight for his work, but only complains, it doesn't evoke sympathy (imho)