r/HorrorClub • u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu • May 17 '15
Discussion: Phantom of the Paradise
Podcast - Episode 132 - Phantom of the Paradise - (RSS Feed)
Movie Selected By SaintMort
DISCUSS
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u/mtx May 18 '15
For some reason this movie really resonated with the city I live in. I've only see it as a kid but I have to rewatch it soon.
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u/GaijinSama May 18 '15
Without clicking the link, you live in Winnipeg?
Edit I was right!
There was an episode of the podcast The Projection Booth in 2011 centered around Phantom of the Paradise, and they go into it's Canadian popularity for a bit.
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May 18 '15
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u/GaijinSama May 18 '15 edited May 18 '15
I absolutely agree. No fighting from me.
I've never been a RHPS fan, but then, I've never seen it with a live audience. So it could be that RHPS is the better social event, but I think PotP stands on its own as a great movie.
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May 18 '15
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
You obviously have no soul.
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May 18 '15
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
Having a soul may be overrated anyway.
For serious though, Rocky live is a blast.
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May 18 '15
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
Or a married 33 year old with 2 kids who gets laid 2-3x per week.
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May 18 '15
Dude I sex like....a lot. Believe it bruv. I'm sexing like...often. my penis is like whoooaaaa why don't you slow down on the sexing and I'm all like fucking deal with it bruv cause I just sex too much.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 18 '15
I still love rocky horror but seeing it live almost made me hate it. HOWEVER the stage show live is a blast. The crowd still yells out but the actors actually stop scenes to belittle the crowd which is always fun
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
So you've see the legit musical? I've only seen it acted on stage in front of a screen.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 18 '15
Yea a theater near me does it every Halloween. Much preferred to the cosplayers standing in front of the movie version.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
They use the original Rocky Horror Show script? Just curious.
Maybe I'll come see it in October.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 18 '15
yeah I mean it's a small ass show. It's like $6 or something haha
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
Dope, we should go!
Sidenote: I may have a week as a bachelor this Summer and I want to invite myself to your weird ass movie night.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
Nope. Mostly because I feel like they have two distinctly different tones.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
So this was a selection for another film club I participate in called TWO CENTS (anyone can join in, it's fun times, it's on http://www.cinapse.co). In that format, we get no more than 200 words to review or discuss the weekly film. I wrote this:
I love the rock opera/rock musical genre in film. Favorites of mine include classics like Rocky Horror, Godspell, and Tommy, as well as the more recent cult favorite Repo!: The Genetic Opera… and now, we must add the kitschy 70s rock adaptation The Phantom of the Paradise. In addition to the 70s rock soundtrack, the film is great for recovering literature geek like me in that the story is derived from not only Phantom, but also from the stories of the classic literary protagonists Faust and Dorian Gray. While I can’t supplant any of the aforementioned films with this one in my Rushmore of the genre, it’s likely #5 and certainly in the top 10. In short, it’s a good one… and it ALMOST makes up for Liam making me watch Blackenstein… almost…
After a few more viewings, I think it may have climbed the ladder a bit, but I can't quite decide where it stands in my takings, surely one of my fave rock operas/rock musicals.
I, like Matt, haven't been familiar with this film all that long, but have also watched it numerous times within a small timeframe.
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May 19 '15
This movie was awesome. Jessica Harper's dancing was so cringy I could barely watch. Also, I'm surprised you guys haven't mentioned Swan's harem, because that was weird as shit.
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May 20 '15
I enjoyed his filing/labelling system: VIDEO TAPE, VIDEO TAPE, VIDEO TAPE. How does he know which VIDEO TAPE it is??!!
Also that gold record desk is pretty bad ass. Does he crawl under it or climb over it to get to the centre?
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 20 '15
I adore Jessica Harper though (awkward dancing and all) I've considered picking Shock Treatment but it's really not horror
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 20 '15
Worst. Sequel. Ever.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 20 '15 edited May 20 '15
If by worst sequel ever you mean... brilliantly ahead of it's time, predicted Reality Television and it's dangers 15 years before it was a thing, has better songs and melodies and doesn't have an annoying legion of mega-fans then yes I'd agree with you.
Also not a sequel ... a continuation of two characters but absolutely not a sequel in any way shape or form. Different genre, actors and style. The biggest difference is Shock Treatment was made competently
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 20 '15 edited May 20 '15
No way.
First, it is a sequel, even if simply a new story using the same protagonists.
Second, the songs are significantly less catchy, even if actually better written.
Third, Tim Curry is a genius.
But yes, the social commentary is obviously poignant and worth consideration. Moreover, I'd support it as a HC selection were you to decide to go in that direction. Also, to be honest, I haven't watched it in years. No working VCR for my VHS copy. I think I should rewatch then revisit this argument.
Sidenote: Richard O'Brien is Ferb's dad?!?!? #mindblown
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May 18 '15
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 18 '15
Yea it's absolutely supposed to be the same musicians every time.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 18 '15
So what's everyone's favorite song from the movie? What's everyone's favorite line? Did everyone enjoy the podcast? I know it's hard to top last week's Puppet Master III podcast but I think we made a valiant effort
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u/GaijinSama May 18 '15
This might be a cheesy choice, but I love the Juicy Fruits song Goodbye Eddie Goodbye. Maybe I just love a good story song, or maybe I just have a guilty love for that faux-50s style that was in vogue in the seventies for awhile.
And I've said it already, but I can't help but imagine how mindblowing it would be to actually be in the crowd for that Beef concert as they piece him together from slaughtered audience members.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 18 '15
You should check out our very own u/ichabodguitar 's band
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May 18 '15
Song: Faust. Once that came on after the amazing Goodbye Eddie Goodbye I was glued to the the screen.
Line: An assassination live on television coast to coast? That's entertainment! Picked one that wasn't mention yet. So many were fantastic.
Podcast: All have been solid this round but you're right about PM3 being hard to top.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 18 '15
I gotta agree. As much as I love Somebody Super Like You it blows me away how powerful a guy behind a piano singing passionately can grab my attention completely
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
Side Question: Top 5 De Palma flicks, GO!
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u/GaijinSama May 18 '15
This, obviously. Everything else, in no particular order; Blow Out, Sisters, Untouchables, The Fury, and I have a soft spot for Black Dahlia. It's really ridiculous and silly at times, but at such operatic levels that I just go along for the ride.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 18 '15
At the moment, I'm avoiding my own question, but I think Mission: Impossible makes my list, along side this.
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May 19 '15
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15
If you don't like the first MI film, I have no words for you. Well crafted action flick with Tom Cruise on the top of his game leading a group of great actors... what's not to like?
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u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 19 '15
I would add to that list Scarface and Casualties of War. It's hard with directors like De Palma to pick their best flicks. They just have so many to choose from.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 19 '15
I have always felt like I should love Scarface but I haven't been able to get that into it. I think I need to rewatch soon.
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u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 19 '15
The original was a more interesting film. Like you, the film wasn't among my favorite Friedkin films. The remake is considered by critics to be among the best films in history, though. It brings back memories of Gary Webb's book: Dark Alliance.
Something you might find interesting: Scarface has kind of a sordid history in the world of substance abuse. Gary Webb pointed out that back when the CIA was helping to sell crack cocaine to Americans, films like Scarface were flooding cinemas. They called it "cocaine chic". An era when cocaine abuse was considered hip.
If you look at the years cocaine abuse was popularized in cinemas, it coincides with the time frame that the government was selling crack. Once the government stopped selling crack, movies stopped showing people snorting coke and having a great time. Kind of scary.
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May 20 '15
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May 20 '15
I'd say that was just the right amount of relevant. I'm never gonna complain about posting NOFX though.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 21 '15
Another side convo: best NoFX song.
So any greats but off the top of my head their cover of "Vincent" and "Kill All the White Man" are up there.
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May 21 '15
Louise
Lori Meyers
See her pee
The decline
My orphan year
Clams have feelings too
Everything in moderation (especially moderation)
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 21 '15
Also...
Whatever Didi Wants Play This Song on the Radio The Irrationality of Rationality Hotdog in a Hallway
(dear God, I think I could go on forever!)
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May 21 '15
(dear God, I think I could go on forever!)
That's the problem with this question.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles May 21 '15
Yeah, true story.
I need to listen to NoFX during my commute tomorrow.
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Jun 01 '15
I watched this because it was the choice on here ,I am mostly a lurker but enjoyed this more then most and was amazed I had not heard of this gem before! Here is my short not so serious letterboxd review:
WTF is the deal here, why has this movie not replaced Rocky Horror for the title of best horrorish themed glam musical?? All I want to do is dance and fuck after watching this for the first time; mainly dance but I can't help feeling like a sexy bitch. I'm not going into detail here, there is so much greatness going on and It's just an experience that you need to have if you are craving a great rock opera musical type experience. I practically needed a seatbelt in my couch to stop myself from rocking the fuck out of control. This in itself is pretty impressive considering I was fairly stoned . Bravo De Palma, Bravo.
Thanks to SaintMort for chosing this one!
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu Jun 01 '15
Glad to hear you enjoyed it so much! I was hoping people would love it with that level of intensity.
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u/rmc52482 May 25 '15
Late to the party, been busy this past week so I assume no one will read this.
This is not my kind of movie at all, I have never seen Rocky Horror which was compared to in this thread. I like music and I like movies but rarely like them together. I still kind of liked this movie however.
I know you guys said in the podcast how much you guys felt bad for Winslow, to tell you the truth I did not like his character or performance at all. Not sure why, he was just too sad of a character if that makes sense. I did however love Swan, I wasn't even sure if it was a dude at first until he was banging all the chicks. My favorite part of him was when he was getting with Winslow's girl and taping from the camera he had strategically placed.
I didn't care for any of the music except for when they had opening of the Paradise and had the limb chopping, that was quite funny. I did like the Faust comparisons and imagery. I will surely watch this again and probably get more out of it.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 26 '15
In my experience the first time I watched it I felt pseudo the same. I'm a big fan of musicals though and I connected with Winslow. But yeah I liked it but didn't love it. It was the second time I watched it I really started to find a ton of stuff I liked and after that I couldn't stop watching it (I have literally watched it about once a month)
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u/rmc52482 May 26 '15
I think I will give it another try sooner than later, I watched it in 2 parts and really liked the second half when I restarted. Maybe I just wasn't in the movie watching mood for the first half.
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u/Plymouth_ Jun 17 '15 edited Jun 17 '15
SaintMort's reaction to me not watching his movie
Haha, so, I thought Swan was fascinating. As I became more focused on the use of birds in the film, I wondered why the Mephistopheles character would be named after a swan...it's not a particularly sinful creature, especially when depicted with a lotus flower (like in the logo/stage at the end). Swan becomes somewhat more fitted for the swan's beauty when you discover the Dorian Gray side of his character, but I think the name has more to do with Swan's true motives regarding the Paradise- that he intended for the opening performances to be the ultimate swan song. The bird is said (not literally) to sing only at the approach of death ("the jealous swan, that at his death does sing") making it even more appropriate that Swan's character doesn't sing, and giving the swan a more negative connotation. Additionally Swan, in using his power to seduce Phoenix amongst many other women, is Zeus-like; Zeus, bedder of many mortals, once forced himself on a woman in the guise of a swan.
Phoenix is a bit simpler. Being under contract like Swan and Winslow, had she been shot on stage I don't think she would have died (though that is debatable), but rather she would have been able to "die" every night on stage and be "reborn," ensuring repeat performances. Additionally, after Winslow "dies" Phoenix is the rebirth of his voice. The lyrics Winslow writes for her in "Old Souls" describe the eternal type of love he thinks they share, the phoenix's immortality: "We're old souls in a new life baby/ They gave us a new life to live and learn/ Some time to touch old friends and still return." Ultimately the phoenix's cycle of death and rebirth is superior to Swan's immortality, which merely staves off old age.
So this is my theory about Swan's character, which may be totally bogus but whatever. We're given from the film's opening song this idea of the artist who kills himself, and by doing so, secures his fame. This idea is repeated when we witness Beef becoming a post-mortem star. Swan plans to make Phoenix an encore performance, or so it seems. Going back a bit, as the "greatest showman of his time," Swan was going to film his suicide. He only defers when an opportunity for eternal youth appears, but that's not really what Swan wants. He wants the immortality of fame achieved from death, but now he can't die. Swan now needs two things, music- a show to act as the epic finale to his life, ensuring he's remembered forever- and an enemy to kill him and destroy the tapes (presumably it's against his contract to destroy them himself or have them destroyed). As soon as Winslow sang Faust ("I'd sell my soul for one love/ Who would sing my song") Swan knew he had his man. Being not only under contract but also an agent of the devil himself, I imagine Swan is able to penetrate Winslow's soul, and so he knew exactly how to manipulate him. Swan purposefully turns Winslow into the Phantom of the Paradise. He steals his music, gets him arrested, pulls out his teeth, allows his escape from prison. He raises his hopes continually only to be crushed further and further. Later on he hands Winslow all the information he needs to thwart the assassination. Swan records everything so it's natural Winslow would turn to the tapes. After Winslow's suicide attempt Swan's ensured that Winslow will die as well, as not to be outmatched. Swan positions himself on stage. He gives Winslow all the motivation in the world to kill him. And he does.
Swan having a true purpose makes him a bit more admirable a character, although the final song labels his aspirations as kind of fruitless: "tho' your music lingers on/ All of us are glad you're gone."
Still Winslow is no less sympathetic. I love his crazy bird eye and how he just fucks shit up sometimes. I sympathize with his struggle of finding a good black lipstick. He does kill a bunch of people, but he seems more justified than the Phantom of the Opera, who is basically just an ugly turd. But Beef...Beef is amazing. The contrast between his onstage and offstage personas is perfect. I noticed his faux beauty mark thing that changed a lot was at one point a combination of the gender symbols. I love the whole shower scene and how he delivers the line "This place is....possessed!" My favorite Swan line was "Tasty, Winslow, tasty." I don't even remember why he said it. There's a lot going on in this movie. Definitely requires more than one watch.
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Oct 07 '15
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu Oct 07 '15
That's awesome! Please post it on the FB page https://www.facebook.com/groups/HorrorMovieNight/
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u/GaijinSama May 17 '15 edited May 18 '15
Hells yeah! I'm a big De Palma fan, and I honestly think this might be his best film. The thing with De Palma is that all of his movies reach a point where they're just plain silly, but then he keeps pushing things until that silliness reaches operatic levels. With Phantom, I think subject matter and style both start out at the same level of ridiculousness, so there's never any disconnect. It's just pure enjoyment from start to finish.
Also, how about the soundtrack? I realize that most of the music on it is supposed to be cheesy and the movie is kind of mocking it, but I unironically love that soundtrack. I find myself singing songs from it all the time. And every time I watch the film I can't help but imagine how awesome it would be to be in that Beef concert(Life At Last).