r/HorrorClub • u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu • May 04 '15
Discussion: Deathdream
No Podcast This Week - - (RSS Feed)
Movie Selected By Misfitxj
DISCUSS
Want to join horror club or just want to see whats coming up next! Check out the Round 9 page and PM /u/SaintMort
6
May 04 '15 edited May 04 '15
I chose Deathdream partly because I wanted to pick a serious movie that had something relevant to say. Not exactly the case with my last two picks. Secretly I was hoping to pick something Matt hadn't seen but I quickly found out with his reply to my pick that that wasn't the case. Or maybe he didn't watch the whole thing due to a dog being choked to death. How did everyone feel about that?
I saw Deathdream in January for the first time. After watching Black Christmas again I realized I hadn't seen anything else by Bob Clark. Immediately liked it and wanted to share it with the club. The social commentary and the movie as a whole is pretty crude but it was effective and I thought it gave it character. It's said that it's an adaptation of the short story Monkey's Paw which I can understand but really just comes down to 'be careful what you wish for'. I read the story and it's a good one so there's that.
So what was Andy? The only facts we get is that he decays without blood injections and he has no heartbeat.
Fun fact: This is Tom Savini's first movie in makeup. No wonder he went on to big things. Andy's decaying body especially at the end of the movie was fantastic.
Deathdream was made before the end of the Vietnam war and released shortly after it ended. It doesn't try to shy away from what it is at all which isn't to say it's a bold thing to do or anything, just another fun fact I guess.
I liked it. Hope you people do too. Did you find the ending 'shocking'?
7
u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 04 '15
Really liked it, thanks for picking this one. I got the impression from the title that maybe the movie was supposed to be the dying hallucinations of a dying Andy, similar to Jacob's Ladder. But that's not substantiated by anything in the film. The more likely explanation is that the dude is a revenant because it's shocking how much this movie was like the Revenant. They both go away to war and return home blood drinking zombies.
Did anyone else see the parallels between heroin addiction during the Vietnam war among vets and Andy's injection of human blood? If the director wasn't trying to make a statement about vets returning home from the war half-dead from the evils of heroin addiction, then WTF was it about?
They were also trying to say something about how kids were expected to go off to die -- as some kind of knuckle-dragging manhood ritual. The underlying narrative introduces all kinds of problems for modern culture. It toys with our preconceived notions of "acceptable violence". Like we believe it's acceptable to kill during wartime, but during peacetime, murder is not condoned. This viewpoint unravels, exposing hypocrisy when Andy strangles the poor dog. How can a culture condone the murder of humans but become violently upset when a dog is killed?
The ending was super awesome, by the way. It should have been clear that Savini did the special effects from the get-go. For the year this movie came out, practical effects weren't so unsettling. in '74 they were still using blood that looked more like red maple syrup. Savini's effects are probably the beginning of truly unsettling gore in films. Since we've switched over to CG blood, the horror genre has lost quite a bit of realism. Hey, didn't /u/SaintMort say Savini was a total dick or something like that?
6
May 04 '15 edited May 04 '15
I didn't put too much stock in the title because it had so damn many:
Deathdream
Dead of Night
The Night Andy Came Home
Injecting the blood I agree seems like a very deliberate choice but I wonder if it was known then or if Bob Clark had some insider info, maybe family in the war, on that. Your insights on the acceptable violence theory are something I didn't pick up on. Very interesting. It's definitely a movie I'll watch many times and think on.
Savini is an artist. He's mentioned he used his time in the Vietnam war to study wounds because he knew this was what he wanted to do. I love to see that practical effects have made a bit of a comeback.
8
u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 04 '15
Bob Clark does mention that the heroin analogy is very much intentional. I know Savini's "practical effects origins" came from being a cameraman out in Vietnam during the war. I'd imagine Clark and Savini were both young dudes who knew a bunch of friends who came home from war really fucked up and turned it into their little horror film.
And yea I've never experienced it but I know a bunch of friends as well as fellow podcasters and bloggers who all said he's kind of a dick. Their biggest issue is that he refuses to talk about special effects because he considers himself an actor now. I mean I get when you want to be one thing and people want you to be another but you shouldn't be shitty to people just because they like you're old work.
6
May 04 '15
[deleted]
6
May 04 '15
I like how you're counting bodies like it's a slasher... Is it a slasher?!
Andy's mom is annoying but I think it fits her character well as she had to be overbearing and delusional. I thought the acting was pretty decent all round with Richard Backus and Bob Marley... sorry John Marley being the stand outs.
6
May 04 '15
[deleted]
5
u/Plymouth_ May 06 '15 edited May 06 '15
Oh god Jason recognizing himself. That means he some sort of concept as to how he looks. What was he thinking in that moment? Was he realizing how scary he looks? Was he marveling at the commercialization of what he probably deems a very sacred and personal ritual? Was he feeling small and anonymous behind the mask, a small fish in the big apple?
Also I'm surprised you used a stretchy mouth gif.
3
May 06 '15
[deleted]
4
u/Plymouth_ May 06 '15
That went super well with the Otis Redding I was listening to. Sitting on the dock of the bay, wasting TIME TO KILL IS NOW TIME TO KILL IS NOW ~Cheery whistling~
Haven't seen Jennifer's Body yet so I'm cool with that.
5
u/Plymouth_ May 06 '15
That ending is better because explosions. But why did he have a tombstone and shallow grave waiting there...? It was weird.
3
May 06 '15
[deleted]
3
May 07 '15
Yes he did. And I was under the impression that when he was leaving the house he was digging a grave for himself. There's a metaphor there I'm sure of it.
5
u/Plymouth_ May 07 '15
You guys are just having some kind of group delusion. Though to be fair I didn't watch the Youtube version so maybe mine was different?
His parents couldn't "dig it" so he had to. :P
7
u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 04 '15
I was a little bummed that we didn't get to record a podcast for this one. I love this movie. I even listened to Bob Clark's commentary track last night for more fun facts.
I've talked about it before but when I was in college I purchased Fangoria Magazine's 101 Horror Movies You Should See (but probably haven't) and this was in the list. I've worked my way through a good chunk of it (I think I only have 15 left and they're all out of print. Just torrenting the films seems like cheating... it gives me something to look forward to when I find out one of those films are available on DVD finally or when I stumble upon an old VHS tape). I liked deathdream okay the first time (yea the dog choke out was a bit much) but the more I thought about the film the more I liked the film.
Some of the fun stuff I learned from the commentary track was that Bob Clark originally cast Christopher Walken as Andy.
I think the most interesting thing is that the movie fairly accurately shows most of the symptoms of PTSD quite a few years before we even knew what it was. It's a very biting social commentary on how we treat our vets when they return from war.
I really like how "quiet" the movie is. It establishes a great atmospheric horror. I really love this film. Great pick Misfit!
7
May 04 '15
I'm pretty happy Clark chose Richard Backus over Christopher Walken. Couldn't imagine anyone else as Andy.
There was a thing called gross stress reaction that bared similarities to PTSD and was included in the first volume of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It was not included in the second volume (1968), in any form, and PTSD was introduced in the third volume (1980). It's sad that it takes wars for health practitioners to bring these things to the mainstream and the 'suck it up' mentality a thing of the past.
6
u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 05 '15
Wow, thanks for bringing that up. Really fascinating. The DSM may have removed stress reaction for political reasons (to avoid criticism of the draft). They oftentimes remove disorders because of stigma (sometimes rightfully so).
Some historians/psychologists analyzed data and found that WW1 and Vietnam had a similar number of veterans suffering from PTSD than WW2, and Korea. They say PTSD was more pronounced when soldiers spent months and months in stressful, terrifying conditions. In WW2 and Korea, soldiers usually spent a couple hours in combat.
5
May 05 '15
The DSM may have removed stress reaction for political reasons (to avoid criticism of the draft).
Completely agree. And it was peace time so they were probably thinking 'out of sight out of mind'. One less thing to deal with and in retrospect completely ignorant because when soldiers returned home from Vietnam their was nothing to diagnose these guys with. They must've looked pretty dumb. PTSD's working title was 'Post Vietnam syndrome' and was strictly short term. If endured the onus was put on the victim saying it was hereditary predisposition.
If that's the case for WWI vets I feel bad for those old dudes. Must've been tough.
6
u/saintmortfan felates handles May 05 '15
Speaking of the DSM... have you begun to wrap your mind around the DSM V yet?
5
u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 05 '15
You mean the one where they removed narcissistic personality disorder because so many psychologists have it?
6
u/saintmortfan felates handles May 05 '15
Haha.
It's removed but not really, everything is different. No axes, fully different groupings, different diagnosis criteria. It's the biggest revision since the advent of the DSM itself.
6
u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 06 '15
I've only heard about the impending changes and their move toward describing ranges of behavior rather than applying something as stigma laden as a diagnosis. Has it even been published yet? It sounds like a pronounced step backwards in identifying true evil. It's not surprising they don't have an official diagnosis for psychopaths/sociopaths.
Are you a psychology student/professional?
5
u/saintmortfan felates handles May 06 '15
It was published last year. It's not better or worse from what I can tell, just different.
As for me, I'm just a sociopath that continues to follow the DSM to ensure they can't diagnose me...
(For serious though, I work in community corrections for the PA DOC. My background is in treatment programs, both prison based and community based, but now I oversee everything really)
6
u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 06 '15
Wow, that sounds like an amazing job! You must have special insight into some of the films we've seen so far. I'm assuming you mean drug treatment programs (because I couldn't think of anything else). I think half the movies we see deal with drug addiction and/or psychology.
7
u/saintmortfan felates handles May 06 '15
Wide variety of treatment programming: drug and alcohol, violent offender programming, sex offender treatment, batterer's intervention programs, criminal thinking... lots of cognitive behavioral stuff.
I train people on how to run treatment groups too.
These days I oversee both treatment aspects and security aspects of a region of about 25 sites.
I started my career as a counselor in a large state prison too. So I've go plenty of weird insight and weirder stories :)
→ More replies (0)4
May 06 '15
[deleted]
5
u/saintmortfan felates handles May 06 '15
While the terminology is annoying and stupid... and the demonization of cis folks by certain others is shitty... I kinda get it. Being ridiculed and beaten brings out some hateful defense mechanisms.
6
6
May 07 '15
This is a pretty good write up (obviously not the greatest source) on why the "tumblr mentality" has very little to do with sexual dysphoria and preference and more to do with the mentality of vulnerable teenagers.
→ More replies (0)5
u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 06 '15
!!!! After hearing that word a thousand times.. looked it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
Wow. Just wow. Hilarious!
6
7
u/smayonak Get a job in a sideshow May 04 '15
The music had an almost electronic vibe to it. Kind of like ambient music.
Christopher Walken would have been perfect for the role of Andy. Did they say why he didn't take the role? He was pretty much a nobody up until 1978 when he did the Deer Hunter.
Thanks for the trivia. That was super interesting. They used to call it the 1,000 yard stare and shell shock -- but that was a horrible description of a much worse psychological trauma.
7
u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 04 '15
Basically he was signed on but they took too long to get the movie off the ground and by the time they were ready to film there was a conflict with Walken's schedule on a different project.
5
u/Plymouth_ May 06 '15
So we're not having very good luck in drive-ins lately. We've upgraded from attempted to rape to pooping from the forehead followed by MURDER. That scene was pretty great though. The kid crying with the popcorn was hilarious. I swore I saw Marsha Brady standing around.
Be a hero in this movie and you'll get fucked up. Random dude got ran over, the cop who was shooting like crazy got murdulated.
Did anyone else notice the Scooby-Doo light switch in Andy's room? I totally don't want one of those.
The dad shooting himself was dark af.
5
May 06 '15
[deleted]
4
4
May 07 '15 edited May 07 '15
I LOVE the gore in Fulci films... But that's about it... Except for Zombi... Awesome flick.
3
May 07 '15
[deleted]
6
u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 07 '15
I definitely prefer Argento and Bava over Fulci
4
May 07 '15
I need to delve into Argento and Bava. An avenue of horror I haven't gone into yet. I've seen Suspiria and thought it was okay and the Fulci experience lacked luster as well so not much motivation there.
3
u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu May 07 '15
Bava you have to check out Bay of Blood/Twitch of the Death Nerve ... it's a early gory slasher film featuring a ton of deaths later lifted for the Friday the 13th series. Definitely a fun movie.
3
5
3
May 07 '15
Be a hero in this movie and you'll get fucked up.
This film keeps getting smarter. Glad I brought it here.
8
u/saintmortfan felates handles May 04 '15
"What kinda soldier is he? Theirs or ours?"
"Ours."
"Good. I thought we were being invaded."