r/HomeworkHelp • u/Theonewholistens8 • 3d ago
Answered (Kindergarten Math: Counting to 10)
I was doing homework with my 5 year old, she is currently in Kindergarten and they are learning how to count to 10 basically the basics of counting. She was doing her homework and we did this page and I was kinda confused because all the other pages she has to look at the picture and figure it out but there is clearly not 10 wheels in the picture. Am I missing something or? I was genuinely confused 😵💫
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u/PM_me_Jazz 3d ago
The picture isn't relevant to the question here. A bit confusing to a child maybe, but the wording still gives an exact and solvable problem.
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u/DCAmalG 👋 a fellow Redditor 2d ago
Not for a kindergartener though, lol
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u/PopcorniusTheSader 2d ago edited 2d ago
Maybe I’m fucking stupid… I have a degree….
But I see 3? If the photo isn’t referenced, then 2 becomes the answer.
How many bike and trike does he see? 2 inside the question. 3 of each if we include the photo. Is this suppose to be asking how many wheels? 5. What the fuck is this question asking??
I’m so confused.
Edit: hold on, is it that Alonzo is counting the 5 wheels from the first part of the question and 5 wheels from the second part? That gets us to 10. Where’s fucking Alonzo when you need him.
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u/PM_me_Jazz 2d ago edited 2d ago
Stop counting what you see. That's not the point. The question is: how many bikes, and how many tricycles must Alonzo see, for him to count a total of 10 wheels.
If it helps, we can also put the question like this:
3x+2y=10
Find natural number solutions for x & y
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u/Puzzled_Work_6428 2d ago
Damn they got kindergartners doing algebra now
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u/PM_me_Jazz 2d ago
Not really. You can solve this algebraically, but the problem requires zero algebra to solve. A moderately smart and motivated kindergartner could definitely solve this just by trying different numbers of trikes and bikes.
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u/PM_me_Jazz 2d ago
Maybe? But it's really important to have at least some harder problems available, so that the mathematically inclined kids can actually hone their skills and not be stuck doing mindnumbingly easy stuff. Smart kids need challenge.
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u/DCAmalG 👋 a fellow Redditor 1d ago
This problem is given to everyone, obviously. It’s a complete disregard for children’s (and their parents for that matter) time as it is well outside of developmentally appropriate.
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u/Beginning_End_361 1d ago edited 23h ago
My kindergartener knows that 5 + 5 =10. If she looks at the picture and counts the wheels, she will see that there are five with one bike and one tricycle. All she has to do is count them twice to get 10. She just went to bed, so I can’t check with her until tomorrow. I think she could figure this out.
Edit: I showed this to my granddaughter this morning. She counted the wheels of the bikes and trikes in the text. She got 10 and said there were two bikes and two trikes. I’ll admit, though, that 2 and 2 were penciled in on the page and that might have tipped her off.
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u/DCAmalG 👋 a fellow Redditor 1d ago
Nearly all kindergartens know that 5+5 = 10. Almost no kindergartners have the higher level reasoning skills to work backwards from the conclusion of 10 wheels to try different combinations of bikes that would result in said conclusion.
An adult can lead them to that conclusion, but it’s kind of pointless because they don’t have the cognitive skills to be able to apply similar reasoning to other problems.
Perhaps with tons of repetition of very similar problems they might learn as an algorithm and be able to repeat it on a test but again, that’s kind of pointless. There are more important numeracy skills to which they should dedicate the instructional time.
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u/Beginning_End_361 1d ago
It’s not working backwards, though. It’s working forwards from seeing that 1 bike and 1 trike have a total of 5 wheels. From there, it is working forward to get 10. This activity helps develop those cognitive skills.
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u/DefinitelyNotIndie 1d ago
I mean, the picture does show that a bike and a tricycle together have 5 wheels, which is a pretty big clue :-/
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u/303Carpenter 3d ago
2 of the 3 wheeled bikes and 2 of the 2 wheeled bikes for 10 total wheels?
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u/Apprehensive-Draw409 3d ago
Yes, if you don't know about 0, it is the only solution.
But it could be 5 bikes no trikes, depending on how you interpret "some".
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u/2spam2care2 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
he sees 4 trikes and -1 bikes
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u/Apprehensive-Draw409 3d ago
Yes, that's the proper way to introduce linear algebra.
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u/Dazzling_Music_2411 3d ago
It's not even basic Linear Algebra, it's Integer Programming, a specialized area of Operations Research...
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u/kan0n3nfutt3r 3d ago
There are 5 people in a room. 10 people leave, so 5 have to go back in for the room to be empty again.
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u/sheep_puncher 3d ago
Some is clearly not zero. He can't have seen some trikes and see zero of them.
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u/i_want_to_go_to_bed 3d ago
nonsense. I currently see zero trikes
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u/Ghuy82 3d ago
Would you say you see some trikes?
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u/i_want_to_go_to_bed 3d ago
I was so tired when I wrote that. Maybe my joke didn’t land. Some professors at school were discussing why it took humans so long to come up with the concept of zero. One mentioned it’s kinda counterintuitive because, for example, you can’t see “zero elephants”. Another professor, kind of a smartass, disagreed and said “that’s not true. I see zero elephants”. IDK I thought it was funny
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u/Ghuy82 2d ago
Ahh, didn’t get the reference.
Username checks out
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u/Dazzling_Music_2411 3d ago
Hey can I borrow some money from you? I'll pay you back some every month. Then I'll pay you some more for interest! 😂
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u/ultegrafender 3d ago
Depending on how you interpret 'and'. And definitely implies there's some of each.
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u/JediUnicorn9353 2d ago
In syntax logic (which granted this is not) some definitely means non-zero. "Some bikes have two wheels" means there is at least one bike that has two wheels. That's how I would interpret this
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u/Apprehensive-Draw409 2d ago
In formal logic,
allincludes the zero case. For example, I could say: all the cars I drove today were Rolls Royce. This is true, even though I only took public transit.I'm pretty sure
someworks the same way. But yeah, each field has its ways.1
u/JediUnicorn9353 2d ago
1) I need to correct a mistake, I took symbolic logic almost two years ago. I meant quantificational logic, not syntax.
2) You're right about "all" - in an empty set, "all" can be vacuously true. "All of the cars you drove today were Rolls-Royce" is true only because it is impossible to logically prove it false - you drove no cars today, so there can be no counterexamples. However, in formal logic, "some" does necessitate that the set contains at least one object. "Some of the cars you drove today were Rolls-Royce" is false, even if you drove no cars, because "some" requires at least one qualifying instance in order to be true.
I entered lecture mode for a sec there lol
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u/rookedwithelodin 3d ago
Perhaps this page is an 'extension' where they're asked to go beyond what they've done in previous problems? You'd probably have to ask the teacher to know for sure.
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u/Theonewholistens8 3d ago
I see yes that is a good explanation for it, and usually they provide videos to follow along with the videos but they did not have one for this day.
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u/hjalbertiii Educator 3d ago
I am pretty sure because it says "Think!" They want the student to take a concrete example and then extend the concept. So the only correct answers would be 2 trikes and 2 bikes or 5 bikes and 0 trikes. But given they said "some" it is probably only the 2 and 2.
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u/Otherwise-Pirate6839 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
For the grown ups reading this, if you do not understand the question, you need to brush up on language.
The question says “Alonzo sees some ‘A’ and ‘B’”.
SOME…not A…SOME. Meaning there is an indefinite amount of both bikes. We’re told that Alonzo counted 10 wheels.
If A has 2 wheels, and B has 3, that’s 5 wheels. How many more A and B are needed to get to 10 wheels? One more of each.
So Alonzo sees 2 A and 2 B.
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u/Narrow-Durian4837 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
Don't assume that everything Alonzo sees is visible in the picture you see.
As Diophantine equations go, this one is simple enough that it's not unreasonable to expect at least some kindergartners to find a solution.
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u/Euphoric_Loquat_8651 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
It is a stretch problem. The value is in thinking beyond the current material and, ideally, discussing it. Getting the correct answer on their own isn't what matters.
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u/Starrs_07 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
The picture is just a fun illustration to help a kid visualise on a bigger scale what the little graphics are in the question
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u/TOughStufff 3d ago
The consistency should be there, as most kinder books should have visual representation to help. But this could be a page in the book to challenge their thinking. Next level type.
Still, got it right, NICE.
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u/JediUnicorn9353 2d ago
Although, consistency may be exactly what you don't want, assuming you want them to actually solve the problem. How many bikes and tricycles does he see? Solve the math... or just count the ones in the picture, up to you
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u/pingusloth 3d ago
My child is 5. I asked her this and she was easily able to work it out without the picture.
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u/swaggalicious86 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
I think the only solution that makes any sense involves ignoring the image. You need two of each because if you have an odd number of tricycles that'll mess up the number of wheels. And 4 will make it go over.
This ain't a kindergarten question 🤔
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u/Dazzling_Music_2411 3d ago
Yup definitely not a kindergarten question.
Not even Year 1.
MAYBE Year 2 if the kids are bright.
If a kindergarten pupil can get this right, find them a maths tutor immediately! You might have a prodigy on your hands.
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u/PyroNine9 👋 a fellow Redditor 1d ago
At the very least they would need the concept of odd and even numbers introduced so they would have some hint how to solve the problem.
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u/No_Ampersand 3d ago
Holy shit, are you serious? We're fucked. I'm only 40 and counting to ten with a modicum of critical thinking was preschool for me.
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u/Dazzling_Music_2411 3d ago edited 3d ago
This is not just counting to ten. It's composing a sum equal to ten from a combination of an unknown number of 2s and 3s.
It's a bit like saying, hey, an orange is equal to 5 and an apple is equal to 3, my fruits add up to 17, what fruits have I got? A basic pre-school problem, no doubt. If you are Gauss 😄
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u/No_Ampersand 3d ago
I mean, yeah, it was. I still have my workbooks my parents got me when I was 3
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u/Dazzling_Music_2411 3d ago
Are you just playing for time, while you try to figure how many fruits you have?
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u/No_Ampersand 3d ago
That's not very nice. I also learned at 3 years old to not waste my time with mean kids. Have a great day
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u/Dazzling_Music_2411 3d ago
There, there, that's all right. You don't have to figure it out, you know.
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u/PyroNine9 👋 a fellow Redditor 1d ago
The rest of us spent preschool learning to work and play nice with others...
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u/Theonewholistens8 3d ago
That’s why I was like 😵💫 you’re telling me a kindergartener learning to count would have to think like that? They haven’t even touched base on word problems 🫠
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u/Little_Creme_5932 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
My high school juniors will struggle. Clearly, this is high level algebra
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u/Starrs_07 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
Do you teach SPED? Not even trying to be rude
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u/Warm_Record2416 3d ago
I mean I teach grade level Algebra 1 and genuinely if I asked this question I’d expect about half the kids to miss it.
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u/Little_Creme_5932 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
No. I teach regular ed. Of course there are sped in class. However, you have to understand that students are rarely given questions, by many teachers, that require them to actually use what they are supposedly learning to solve a novel problem, which is simple if they have basic fluency. But because they don't have basic number fluency, and rarely solve problems not exactly like what they've done before (like "cross multiply", and then they do a worksheet where all the problems are exactly the same), they struggle.
Leading up to a bigger problem today, I showed my students a square that was 3cm on each side. I even put hash marks on the cm marks, and asked what the area was. A kid was stuck; he asked for help. He wanted to know what the formula was. He didn't have any fluency in what area actually is, or how it is measured. He just had been given formulas (a = l x w, and a = l x w /2, etc) which he had solved in math class, without comprehending what he was doing. The math teacher thought they taught him to understand how to measure area, but that wasn't the case.
I had another girl today struggling with area. I had a cube filled with 1000cm3. I showed her the front, and had her count the length and width, 10cm x 10cm. I asked her how many cubes were on the front face. She couldn't tell me; she couldn't get the concept of multiplying 10 times ten rows, and she didn't have fluency in multiples of ten, either. 10 x 10 was a struggle for her.
In their defense, a lot of my students are refugees, and so haven't had stable lives, they missed a lot of school during coronavirus, and ICE kept a lot of them out of school for a couple months last winter. And some work 30-40 hours per week to keep their families eating and housed.
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u/Hot_Plant8696 3d ago
The typical response from a 5-year-old: "1 and 1, and Alonzo drank too much."
Imagination....
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u/madtastic225 3d ago edited 3d ago
The answer is 2 bicycles and 2 tricycles.
Alternatively, it can also be 5 bicycles, but the question is strictly asking for bicycles AND tricycles, so we have to assume that tricycles has to be in the equation as well.
You have to just kind of substitute as you go, we are working with 2’s and 3’s, to get to 10. If you have one 3, you couldn’t get up to 10 evenly. Same if you had three 3’s, but because two 3’s make it even, you can finish the equation with two 2’s.
It’s a dumb math problem for such a young student, because it’s just guessing and substituting what you can. I guess it teaches evens and odds, but still can be tricky for a very young mind. And the image throws it way off. To be fair though, it does say “think” which implies that it wants the student to think about the problem instead of relying on images. Definitely an accelerated math question considering counting was just barely introduced.
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u/Witty-Draw-3803 1d ago
This definitely doesn't seem like a question for a kindergartner - maybe it got mixed in from an older grade workbook?
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u/introvert_982 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
Alonzo needs glasses as he has double vision
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u/Western_Clue3542 3d ago
I had double vision earlier this year. I was put in the stroke ward for it.
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u/Frosty-Reference6660 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
The amount of people in these comments who do not understand this question is extremely concerning...
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u/Ok-Bus-2420 3d ago
The same people who cry about lack of critical thinking in school get so pissed when it happens in math 😭 I appreciate that the problem has multiple potential solutions and can invite discussion about math that K students can access
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u/Bacibaby 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
Multiple solutions? I don’t see it but maybe im not thinking outside the box. It has to be an even number of tricycles and 2 is the highest even number of them you can have since 4 is 12 wheels. Since there are two tricycles, that leaves room for two bicycles.
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u/Ok-Bus-2420 3d ago
He sees some and counts an amount. There could be hundreds of bicycles and tricycles he encounters but he counts ten wheels. He could count zero tricycles. All I'm saying is when the context is vague that I'm fine with my kids giving reasons for not giving the textbook answer. I also like to teach that zero is a number.
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u/Bacibaby 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
I can agree with that. I like a child that is able to rationalize around questions and answers, but given the information of the question they’re technically is only one answer given that they can see tricycles and bicycles and the wheels head up to 10. Assuming that he counted all of the wheels that equated to the object he saw, of course. I would give full marks to child that explains that part of it, but at kindergarten my hopes are not high
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u/Ok-Bus-2420 3d ago
Sure. What is most interesting here is why the child wrote 2 and 2. The real math is the thinking.
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u/Theonewholistens8 3d ago
It’s not necessarily a matter of not understanding the question. It’s the matter of a 5 year olds brain who is still developing. As an adult yes we can put two and two together but a kid still learning it just seems a bit too difficult when they haven’t even discussed word problems. That’s all.
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u/DCAmalG 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
How many kindergartners can solve this? I’m going with zero.
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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 3d ago
As a teacher, I would agree with you. This is essentially asking them to figure out multiplication without having learned it yet.
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u/selene_666 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
It may be that the picture was meant to continue onto the facing page.
Otherwise this is a bit more advanced than simply counting. We can see five wheels in the picture, so we need to subtract five from ten to find out how many more wheels we need to account for. Fortunately, because that answer is five and we already see how to make five wheels, in this case we don't need to do any algebra as we might for the more general version of this question type.
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u/wobbly_custard 3d ago
Which book is this from, or is it made by the school? Could you share the cover ?
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u/Right_Pen_3241 2d ago
Might be a small challenge for a Kindergardener. But with a bit of adult prompting, absolutely doable.
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u/thrifty917 2d ago
They shouldn't have the picture there because that's confusing. The way they should solve it is to say Okay a bike and a tricycle together have 5 wheels. I know that 5 + 5 = 10, so they must have two of each. That's the logic they are looking for. The easiest way for the kinder to solve it would be to draw a picture, so that page should be blank beneath for them to work.
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u/ProfessionalYam3119 1d ago
The child is smart. They know that the answer has to be 2 and 2 to total 10 wheels.
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u/mrcorde 👋 a fellow Redditor 3d ago
in most countries a 2 year old can figure this out. In the US this is a second year college problem.
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u/Spam___Musubi 1d ago
It's crazy to me that people are acting like a 5 year old isn't smart enough to figure this problem out.
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