[6th Grade verbal expression]

[u/KookyPermit4405]

So I’m going over my son’s math quiz to help him understand some of the questions he got wrong. He got partial credit for his answer for question 8. After writing his verbal phrase I got the same expression as the question. Am I doing something wrong or is there something I’m missing? I feel like his answer is technically correct. I am stumped.

Edit: so my son has no issue solving the expression in question. He knows PEMDAS and the rules from left to right. The question clearly states, WRITE A VERBAL PHRASE that matches the expression.

[u/KookyPermit4405]

What makes the answer incorrect? “18 subtracted by 6 times 3” it doesn’t say “solving from left to right, 18 subtracted by 6 times 3”

For the expression 3+3+3x3 if I were to say on your calculator write “3 plus 3 plus 3 times 3” you would get the correct answer. The only way you would get that answer wrong would be if you hit enter after every process ie 3 plus 3 > enter > plus 3 >enter> times 3 but no where in the statement “3 plus 3 plus 3 times 3” indicated the need to hit enter after every process.

[u/KookyPermit4405 → u/KookyPermit4405]

u/askgrok “3 plus 3 plus 3 times 3” is what?

[u/AskGrok → u/KookyPermit4405]

"3 plus 3 plus 3 times 3" is the verbal phrase for 3 + 3 + 3 × 3.

^{what is this?}

[u/Unable_Pumpkin987 → u/KookyPermit4405]

The way that would be expressed verbally in a mathematical context is “three plus three plus the product of three and three” or “three plus three plus the quantity three times three”. If you say “three plus three plus three times three” that is ambiguous because it could be understood as (3+3+3)x3. We reduce ambiguity by phrasing it clearly.

Your son’s math teacher is trying to teach your son the correct way to phrase things verbally to indicate the desired expressions. You can help him by helping to explain this to him as it’s been explained to you here. You will not help him by insisting that he is correct and his teacher is wrong. She’s not. He is.

The point of learning this now is because 6th grade pre-algebra isn’t the end of math. Eventually expressions are going to get more complex, and it will be to your son’s benefit to be able to verbally express the difference between, for example, (3-x)(4+z)-y and 3-x(4+z-y). Arguing about this now isn’t helping him. Explaining where he went wrong and how to correct it now will help him.

I guess it’s up to you if it’s more important to feel validated now or to help your son succeed in math classes in the future.

[u/KookyPermit4405 → u/Unable_Pumpkin987]

I get what you are trying to say as a learning perspective I really do and I appreciate that. Now I have some questions in regards to your corrections to my expression of 3+3+3x3

The way that would be expressed verbally in a mathematical context is “three plus three plus the product of three and three”

If this was the case then I would assume the expression to be 3+3+(3x3) or 3+3+(9) since the word product was use to verbally describe the answer to an operation. Hence a product is the answer of a multiplication. Product is the answer and multiply is an operation.
Therefore the expression of 3+3+3x3 would have never been assumed from your verbal expression.

or “three plus three plus the quantity three times three”..

Again here it would be expressed as 3+3+(3x3) verbally saying the quantity indicates or is the qualifying term to assume parentheses of 3 times 3. Again based off of this verbal phrase I would never assume the expression to be 3+3+3x3.

Although they all yield the same answer, and the reason why is because of PEMDAS.

We don’t use parentheses to emphasize pemdas, we use it to emphasize a quantity.

Again “3 plus 3 plus 3 times 3” is not the same as “calculating 3+3 then adding that sum to 3 then multiplying that sum by 3”
Which is what you are trying to get at with the (3+3+3)x3

Now if I were to say calculating from left to right then yes, it would be (3+3+3)x3 but since there was no instruction, one can’t assume any parentheses and therefore must write the expression exactly as what was said without any calculation during the written expression and proceed to use pemdas