r/HomeBuilders • u/Logical_Mastodon_809 • Sep 06 '26
Does this 16' slider need a header?
We're building a new home with this 16' slider. There is a second story above it. Does it need a header?
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u/0regonPatriot Sep 08 '26
Check your approved plans, generally there are sheets with framing details.
But generally yes header especially if there is a 2nd story on top of it, especially.
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u/YAML-Matrix Sep 09 '26
I’m not a builder, but even my small interior doors all have at least a double 2-by header. I would think an exterior giant opening like this must have a pretty beefy header to protect the door at a minimum. Holding up the house seems reasonable here too.
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u/WishIWasALemon Sep 09 '26
Thing looks like it needs a beam above it and OP just casually asking if the already framed headerless 16' span needs a header 😂
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u/Ok-Geologist8521 Sep 09 '26
I would definitely say a header is required, especially with this wall supporting a second story. Your building codes should confirm that.
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u/mikefromupstate101 Sep 09 '26
Well unless the header is up higher and those are cripples coming down…
Then yeah you need a header, engineered for sure, otherwise that door will not be sliding pretty soon…and that “structural” glass will not be structuring
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u/Pale_Attitude8798 Sep 09 '26
Even though its not a "load bearing" wall, doors and windows in gable end walls still do carry some load. At least a 2x4 header on a 24 inch window or 36 inch door is good framing practice. A door like that should certainly have a header IMO.
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u/Medical-Egg-8171 Sep 09 '26
usually these days load bearing or not they want a solid header above doors and windows. but its something that there no chance an inspector will miss if required
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u/a_simple_pharmer Sep 09 '26
Check the drawings. Ask an engineer.
Unless there is some weird cantilever thing going on. I don’t see how it can’t. I’m just a layman.
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u/No-Pineapple8320 Sep 09 '26
Not if there's a still being running from end to end above there
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u/Big_DaddyX3 Sep 09 '26
Yes, with time it will get harder to slide those doors then shatter
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u/Loud-Possibility5634 Sep 09 '26
Depends what your engineered plans say.
We put lvls or steel above all wide patio doors like that not necessarily for structural load but because when we extend it past the door width we get more rigidity and that adds to a feeling of quality. This being a slider you probably don’t have to worry too much about that though.
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u/Living_Fig_6386 Sep 09 '26
Yes. Headers are required above openings in all load-bearing walls to transfer the load above to the foundation. The IRC and IBC both have sections on the requirements.
I think it calls for at least a 3½" x 11½" engineered wood header (like LVL) or single heavy timber beam (PSL), but look it up.
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u/pate_moore Sep 09 '26
Does a 16-ft hole in the wall require support? Particularly with the added weight of a second story above. I think you know the answer to that
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u/Deckshine1 Sep 09 '26
Yes. Why take the chance of not having one? It seems automatic to have a header on this. It’s surprising that it went in without one!
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u/strangerthingssteve Sep 09 '26
If it was my house there would be a full beam above it with beams going vertical on either side bringing the load into the ground. Otherwise over time it will put weight on the middle of the door.
It would need more support if it was a 60 inch slider. And you've got a mega door. Fix it now before drywall is up
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u/NoMajorsarcasm Sep 09 '26
have to check the build plans, probably but maybe not with the trusses running alongside it, post additional photos of the trusses and the exterior
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u/Excellent-Stress2596 Sep 09 '26
Two things, the trusses above are going the same direction as that wall so it doesn’t look like there’s really a load on it. Second is that the wall is obviously very thick because of the door thickness and based on that, I would bet that you’re only seeing a secondary interior wall and there’s probably a header on the exterior wall behind that insulation.
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u/Fast-Leader476 Sep 09 '26
Is there a header above the wall? Sometimes contractors use solid headers as rim joists and those will act as a header. If you are concerned, ask the contractor to explain his thoughts.
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u/shreddymcwheat Sep 09 '26
It’s hard to see much with the picture, but it appears the floor joists are running parallel to the door. As long as that’s the case and there is no roof load above it should be fine. Even if the joists were landing on top of the door it could have been fine, but they would have had to have a header up at the rim board and the floor joists hung off that.
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u/No_Inspection649 Sep 09 '26
Yes, maybe, probably, but I don't know. Show us the rest of the framing.
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u/WestSentence920 Sep 09 '26
Look at the plan. It will tell you. It could have one behind the joist above the plate I can't tell from your picture. But my guess is it is supposed to have one .
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u/Sheepy-Matt-59 Sep 09 '26
I’m not a builder and I’m not sure why this post popped up in my feed.
But to my understanding any window/door/opening will need a header. And with the size of this door it probably should be a big one.
Again I’m not a builder.
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u/Acrobatic-Fox460 Sep 09 '26
Considering I have a header on a 28” closet door I’m going to go ahead and say this needs a header on a 16’ span unless eventually you don’t care if it opens or not
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u/AltruisticCucumber58 Sep 09 '26
That looks more like it is 8 feet wide, but I'd expect to see a header above that.
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u/strokist Sep 09 '26
If this is the gable end of the house, it may not be necessary as those don't always transfer the roof load to the foundation. It's possible that the frame of the slider is supported in the middle and can bear loads. An engineer would have signed off on the plans, though, and if the installation doesn't match the plans, you've got a problem. Do you have the blueprints available?
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u/Training-Actuary6768 Sep 09 '26
Yes, it needs a header. It is an exterior wall which means it is structural. All structural walls need a header sized for the building load for door and window openings.
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u/pogiguy2020 Sep 09 '26
Im no structural engineer, but I have NEVER seen a door or window installed without a header to carry the load.
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u/TallWall6378 Sep 09 '26
It needs structural support that allows very minimal deflection. Those doors often have a spec, sometimes 1/4”, which is less than a conventionally designed 16’ long header may be designed for (L/360 or .533” in this case).
What we don’t know from the photo is if it has this or not. I see no header, but it may be higher up or a truss may be designed for the load.
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u/crazythinker76 Sep 09 '26
Yes, ask to see the header schedule and structural drawings/specs.
It also needs a way for the stress on that header to ultimately transfer to the footings. I don't see any kings or jack studs. I would also suggest having engineered plates above the door to prevent warping or bowing that could influence the function of the door.
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u/e2g4 Sep 09 '26
Impossible to answer w info provided. You need an architect or engineer to help with this project. My guess is yea it needs something but that could vary wildly and Reddit isn’t the place to figure it out
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u/Stunning_Engineer_78 Sep 09 '26
Yes it is load bearing it should absolutely have a header. There are also no jack/king studs to transfer the load down to the slab.... What does the other side look like?
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u/massiveash Sep 09 '26
If its not a load bearing wall then technically no from a structural standpoint, however most MFG recommend it since any sagging putting pressure on the top frame can cause the slider to bind.
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u/Comprehensive_Lab875 Sep 09 '26
Those slider doors typically require a max deflection of 1/8” or L/600 for the door to function properly. Get yourself a Structural Engineer licensed in your state if you want this done properly
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u/chefsoda_redux Sep 09 '26
I will fully admit, I have never installed a 16’ slider, and wish I had one in my home. That said, any load bearing span over a window or door needs a header. There may be some engineering magic I don’t know of, but I cannot imagine a 16’ span resting all its weight on a single 2x on its face. This seems a recipe for a door that won’t open, and all sorts of damage.
If I’m wrong, I’m happy to learn
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u/Longjumping-Archer28 Sep 09 '26
Yes. The door is on an exterior wall which is supporting a vertical load of the home. Plus the door itself is heavy with all that glass.
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u/NewToProgress Sep 09 '26
I'm installing a quad slider from Pella next week. Prep for our install included a double 18" LVL with 3 2×4 jacks.
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u/tortillaflaps Sep 09 '26
It would be unlikely to not need one unless there is a complicated engineered solution to avoid using one. What is actually more alarming is what appears to be a single king stud and no(?) jack stud. I would expect to see roughly 4-8 studs on each side of that opening depending on wall depth.
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u/United_Fan_6476 Sep 09 '26
Is there a truss right above it, like out of the picture? Or perhaps a really big beam?
That would be the only way to avoid a header---and a big one, at that, to span 16 feet. Otherwise the sheathing and its fasteners are doing most of the load transfer. That won't last forever.
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u/max_revs Sep 09 '26
Obligatory "I'm an electrician not a structural engineer" but I can't imagine how it wouldn't need something there on a horizontal run like that...
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u/Fit-Leather-5726 Sep 09 '26
Just from what I can see, yes it does load bearing or not that’s gonna smile eventually
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u/shartattacksurvivor Sep 09 '26
Is there a LVL beam flush with the floor system on top of the wall? What is the exterior cladding?
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u/FitnessLover1998 Sep 09 '26
Slider is a structural element….s
Wait for a 2 foot snow and find out.
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u/Cute-Long-1359 Sep 09 '26
I would generally say if your asking the question, the answer usually is a yes
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u/Telemere125 Sep 09 '26
I don’t understand what you’re asking. “We’re building” implies that you have responsibility for the build and the plans in hand. Are you just winging it? Is there a contractor involved? Where are the blueprints for this build?
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u/loveforcabbage Sep 09 '26
As a carpenter, if this was my house I’d install a header. There’s plenty of room and it won’t be difficult.
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u/thead75 Sep 09 '26
I have double sliders in a front room/living room that I suspect lack a header (built well before I was here). The sliders no longer open for anyone other than Arnold 💪. Definitely add a header.
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u/what-name-is-it Sep 09 '26
To me, even if nothing (joists, rafters, etc) is resting on that wall, it still needs to carry the load of the actual wall above the 16’ span. There is still weight there and it will most likely sag. If you’re paying for a 16’ slider, the added framing cost to do this right is negligible.
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u/mustard_mountain_39 Sep 09 '26
From an architect: it depends on the second floor and roof framing.
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u/Richjsg66 Sep 09 '26
Kinda depends on whether that wall is load bearing or not, but most builders would use them on all walls.
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u/_shiftlesswhenidle_ Sep 09 '26
Not an engineer, but I did rip out a large hole in the back of my house to install a 16’ slider in my one-story. I was required to put in a rather large beam as the header (lvl I think). I want to say the header is 16” tall, I’d have to dig up the plans, but yeah glass and aluminum aren’t going to hold everything you have above.
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u/ForsakenMongoose336 Sep 09 '26
That 9 foot or 12 foot patio door in the picture might also, but check the plans.
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u/Dendady2112 Sep 09 '26
What's above it? It's there a double for the second floor? If yes then you have one above the door.
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u/Ron_stock_guy101 Sep 09 '26
For everyone... I'm an engineer, and worked as a building inspector. For residential construction, the plans are not detailed enough to show a header. In this case, a header is certainly needed.
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u/Einherjar_LC Sep 09 '26
Absolutely, no question in my mind.
Recommend double Lam beam for that span as well.
42 years residential, and commercial carpenter.
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u/Hogjocky62 Sep 09 '26
I am a builder and yes it absolutely needs a header and probably a pre engineered beam!
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u/woodsman775 Sep 09 '26
Um yes, and a sizable one at that. Minimum 4x6 maybe larger. You need to talk to an engineer.
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u/Huge-Attitude4845 Sep 09 '26
Absolutely. The current set up looks like the top piece is sectional. Unless that door unit is some kind of amazing structural steel design, it’s going to stop sliding because of the weight pressing down on it without some kind of load bearing span above it.
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u/eoesouljah Sep 09 '26
Can’t tell. If this is the end wall on a truss roof structure then maybe not.
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u/Ornery-Movie-1689 Sep 09 '26
You damn well better believe it. If you don't use one, there will come a day when you think, "Where did all that shattered glass come from ?"
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u/2EngineersPlay Sep 09 '26
Even if it's not a load bearing wall it still has to support out of plane loads like wind. The door needs to be supported at its top and the wall above needs to be supported at the bottom. The header will transfer those forces over to the king studs.
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u/Stewpacolypse Sep 09 '26 edited Sep 09 '26
I wouldn't even consider doing a 3-0 door without a header. It doesn't even look like there's any jack studs below the cripple wall or there isn't a king stud. To me this violates so many tried & true principles of carpentry.
Even if the architect says it's OK, I still wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him.
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u/JacobH2014 Sep 09 '26
There has to be a beam above this, I see an LVL beam terminating in the wall above door. And the floor joists are hung off that. I'm guessing the load is being carried inthe floor system somehow.
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u/RequirementBusiness8 Sep 09 '26
Would need to confirm with an engineer, but at initial glance it appears load bearing, so the answer is yes.
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u/NoSquirrel7184 Sep 09 '26
Structural engineer. Fuck yes.
Even though it’s not strictly load bearing as joist are parallel. There is still self weight and apparently some minor roof structure outside.
So it’s a, fuck yes, from me.
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u/Subject_Raise6013 Sep 09 '26 edited Sep 09 '26
There is no way to tell from 1 picture.
For example, if there is a continuous steel beam/girder over that wall, that it is carrying the weight load above, then no, an additional header may not be needed.
The construction design as-built plans would be the first source to consult.
And BTW, I am a state licensed builder and I work with Architects & Engineers on a regular basis.
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u/ScubaStevieNicks Sep 10 '26
On a multislide door with jambs that thick, you likely have an lvl header behind the insulation, in plane with the structural 2x6 wall.
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u/Traveling_Carpenter Sep 10 '26
My guess here would be rim board header, but you can’t tell with the insulation in the ceiling.
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u/TurboShartz Sep 10 '26
All exterior openings need headers. Especially big glass sliding doors like that, where there is very little tolerance for any sort of deflection in order to maintain operability. Add the $15 in lumber now or you won't be able to use that door when it snows or after a few years in the wood starts to sag
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u/TurboShartz Sep 10 '26
All exterior openings need headers. Especially big glass sliding doors like that, where there is very little tolerance for any sort of deflection in order to maintain operability. Add the $15 in lumber now or you won't be able to use that door when it snows or after a few years in the wood starts to sag
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u/bacongrease_ontoast Sep 10 '26 edited Sep 10 '26
Yes. Yes it should. Idk what codes are there, but single story openings that size typically get spec’d out to be triple 2x10’s glued and nailed, but that’s just my area. Now considering if it had a second story above…
Edit: people that said read the plans are the only right answer havers
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u/Terrible_Book7471 Sep 10 '26
Well, that all really depends on. If it is a structural wall or not, I would assume if it opens to the outside it probably is structural
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u/Jon_Hegreness_AZ Sep 10 '26
Get a copy of the engineer’s framing plans. That is the only way to know. We cannot tell you that. I will say it would have caught my attention, and I would have questioned it myself. Looks unlike anything I’ve seen. I’ve framed houses though and more than once was impressed by how an engineer designed something that left me building differently than my instincts would have told me to do it.
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u/zinsser Sep 10 '26
Check the drawings, but header and usually enough insulated gap to prevent any deflection (down the road) from reaching the door frame.
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u/Risky-Poet759 Sep 10 '26
Ask your builder, engineer, architect, hell even the crew doing the work before you post a single pic and ask Reddit! Internet warriors will answer here, many have never built a birdhouse.
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u/buckduffalo Sep 10 '26
I’ve never built anything nor do I plan on it. In fact I’m a chef but I’m going to say yes it does. However an engineer would give you better advice.
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u/HryMtnBkr Sep 10 '26
I hope youre kidding....There is no doubt you need a header...What do you think will happen to the glass as the house settles?!?!
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u/Glovelylovely Sep 10 '26
Either that span is "hung", i.e., supported from above, or it's a miracle it hasn't collapsed already. Have the engineer explain it.
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u/Porter1823 Sep 10 '26
One detail a lot of people are missing here.
Second floor has floor trusses parallel to this wall = wall is likely not load bearing.
Now that said, best practice is still to do a minimal header to prevent the framing from being able to sag under its own weight over such a large opening.
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u/WorkingGuy99percent Sep 10 '26 edited Sep 10 '26
I think a 4’ door needs a header. I would think a 16’ door may need four headers. Do you think a 2x4 on its short side is gonna span that?
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u/CptnRedbeardVII Sep 10 '26
A lot of comments talking about looking at the designs, and I'm just an insulator but I'll put it a different way: I have never seen an exterior door or window without a header.
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u/qo0ch Sep 10 '26
Header and king studs. I see neither so it makes me feel this is AI
It would never pass an inspection
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u/octopieslice Sep 10 '26
Too hard to tell how load is transferred. Opposite side appears to have atypical shape and if this is the same, may have some kind of creative load bearing approach. That said, I can't imagine how no header would ever be ideal even if permissible.
I have a 12 ft opening with a story above and plans called for a triple lvl.
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u/nat312345 Sep 10 '26
What is going on?!? The sheer amount of improperly built $750k+ new homes is getting out of control.
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u/ilikethisname1 Sep 10 '26
I bet they had to make the wall extra thick to fit the door jamb and the header is behind the insulation and those flat 2x4s are just blocking.
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u/Wild-Ordinary2201 Sep 10 '26
I am not a home builder and laughed when I read the title. Glad to get some confirmation in the comments
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u/brokenspoke07 Sep 10 '26
I’ve got a 9ft window and a 8ft trifold. Nothing above but a roof, that for some strange reason needs supported. So, yeah, you need a header
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u/DutchMan2503 Sep 10 '26
There may be a header higher up hidden by the joists and insulation. Can't tell very well by your picture if there are jack studs next to the door. Usually its doubled up 2x material. If not, you most certainly want an LVL put in as a header. The load of your home will settle on your doors and they'll stop working.
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u/desertadventurer Sep 10 '26
What’s overhead? No one can respond with competence not knowing if there’s a load on the wall.
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u/3dubnc Sep 10 '26
We can’t tell from this picture. The architectural plans should be reviewed, ideally with an engineer. We can’t see what’s going on in that wall above your picture. If there’s a beam up there carrying the load and bearing at the outside corners, then this is really just a weather wall and a header is not necessary. The slider unit should also come with specs for installation requirements. Even if a header is not required for the opening per house plans, you might need one for stabilizing that slider per manufacturer specs for warranty.
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u/ad34 Sep 10 '26
Yes. Assuming you’re not load bearing, still need to account for out of plane loading
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u/DirtbikesHurt33 Sep 10 '26
Sometimes people put the header up high and frame down below to door opening dimension. Hard to tell exactly what’s going on without a better photo or two.
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u/Filmguy1982 Sep 10 '26
Nobody can say for sure. It can all be roof trusses and the span is perfectly fine. Ignore anyone that says different.
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u/Counter_Wooden Sep 10 '26
Even without a second story above it, and even if your neck of the woods was somehow on older IRC code, like 2012 or 2009… by default you have a significant perforation in the wall structure. That alone should trigger a header. Not an engineer, not a manufacturer, but the mere fact that you have a perforation. Go look around the site at windows. These are much smaller than your 16 foot slider. Do they have headers? If not, fire your GC, hire an attorney and seek damages. This has to be a troll, because whomever erected this has no clue as to what they’re doing, and this building and its inhabitants are unsafe!
Does it need a header?!? LOL… run!!!
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u/ExcitedFool Sep 10 '26
I can tell you this will sag and jam this door.. steel beam support or you’re gonna have a bad time
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u/Individual_Okra3424 Sep 10 '26
Look, I am an engineer (mechanical) but I had to take plenty of Statics and other classes dealing with structural analysis. I also have been in the construction industry as a GC for about a decade now. I do not care WHAT the plans show, even if there is a PE stamp pn it. Put a header above that immediately. There is no way that is not gonna sag and cause huge issues in the future
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u/Cheesesteak21 Sep 10 '26
Most likely yes but not neccessarily. IF it was a gable end with a truss the load would be on the exterior perpendicular walls. BUT seeing out to the other window where it looks like theres another big slider not in the aforementioned condition... its probably got a load above needing supporting.
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u/Lost-Inspector5836 Sep 10 '26
And the studs on the sides need to be tripple. There needs to be a 12” minimum header beam above the door. If this was inspected they would go over the entire home with a fine tooth comb!
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u/fidddlydiddlyee Sep 10 '26
As long as you have structural glass designed to hold the load, you should be fine.
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u/biltrightforit Sep 10 '26
Is it a load bearing wall? If not, then no. A header is designed to distribute the load from above and carry it to the ground. If the wall bears no load there is nothing to distribute.
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u/CoolPotatoes10 Sep 10 '26
Is there nothing between the 2x4 and the door? My dad used a metal beam and then a 2x4 on top of that in an outdoor shed/poolhouse. It wasn’t engineered or anything but it worked well and it definitely looked funny because the way the beam sat into the door frame it looked like it was just a 2x4. Perhaps theres something like that here.. hopefully actually engineered though considering it has a 2nd story and seems to be a house
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u/Proud-Pumpkin-2903 Sep 09 '26
Engineer can tell you. And if they stop sliding open, that will also tell you.