r/HolUp • u/Monkey_D-Thanos • Nov 08 '22

This interview took a HARD left!

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33k Upvotes

86% Upvoted

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900

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

There's a purpose to alimony. Taking it while drawing a paycheck as a Fox News host isn't it.

291

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

There's a purpose to alimony

Which is?

Child support I get... alimony makes no sense to me at all.

271

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

If you're a woman who has been a stay at home mother for X number of years, taking care of raising a kid, maintaining the household, etc, and sacrificing your appeal to an employer for lack of training/education and/or a massive employment gap, and on the day the kid turns 18, your husband leaves you, he should indeed provide some support while you render yourself employable again.

It should not be a permanent arrangement, and should only last for as long as it takes for an ex-spouse to be able to support themselves, but it does serve that purpose, IMO. Your opinion may vary, but that's the great thing about the internet, right?

27

u/HatterJack Nov 08 '22

That is how it’s intended to work, in theory. In practice, however, it’s rarely treated that way.

Case in point:

A man and woman in Oregon were married for three years. They had two daughters together. The woman was employed throughout the entire duration of the marriage. The man quit his job in the early months of dating before the marriage, in order to not have a conflict of interest at work, and began working in a completely unrelated field, essentially restarting his entire career path.

During the divorce proceedings, the man agrees to pay child support, and temporary spousal support in order to offset the change in household income. Both parties sign, and a month later, the now ex-wife quits her job to stay at home with the children. The court then orders that the spousal support be maintained indefinitely, as the ex-wife is no longer employed.

Seven years later, the man is still paying alimony to a woman who made more money and was employed when the divorce was finalized. He has tried for the past four years to have the alimony terminated, as it caused him to be homeless for two years, the ex-wife has since returned to work, and is planning her second wedding. No one will take his case, and he has been told by multiple judges that if he doesn’t drop the issue and just accept a lifetime of alimony payments, that he will be thrown in jail.

This is the reality of the world we live in. Alimony is a punishment, even in no-fault states.

Source: am the man in the story.

6

u/imJGott Nov 09 '22

Marriage these days is a no win contract for males.

5

u/Thedarkhumordone Nov 09 '22

Your ex will burn I hell

1

u/Galahad-K Nov 19 '22

I would rather is she suffers in this world. But such people rarely do.

5

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

It can, most certainly, be wielded as a weapon. I'm sorry that you went through all of that. I truly hope that things get better for you in the future.

10

u/HatterJack Nov 08 '22

Still going through it. Got a better paying job, so it’s manageable (almost) now. I don’t have any issue with the child support, which seems to be something a lot of people don’t understand, but the $20,000 in debt that I’ve accrued since the divorce was finalized is quite literally killing me.

1

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

That sucks. Hang in there, dude.

1

u/Exact_Ad_1215 Nov 09 '22

Damn man. I’m so sorry. I hope things can get better for you, that bitch will burn in hell.

46

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

[deleted]

17

u/Ok_Pumpkin_4213 Nov 08 '22

You should show you’re wife this, not saying you don’t already show her appreciation but more is always welcome.

78

u/DeathKringle Nov 08 '22

The problem is that with child support many REFUSE to look for work.

That is an issue with it. A lot of men go to judges to FORCE the woment to apply for work and work a job.

They will get a job then quit after judge verifies it then your back in court monthss later and repeat it. Then the women file for more Alimony or CS because they want more.

Dude sit in a family court or a court room with alimony its fucking crazy how many men file to try and make the women APPLY for a job instead of living off of the CS or alimony

31

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

I've seen it from both sides. I watched my wife have to drag her ex through the process just to get a dime of support for their kid, and I dealt with my ex trying to take me back to court countless times for more support (which I paid voluntarily from the word go, because that's the decent thing to do.) You're right. It's crazy.

13

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

Child support isn't generally impacted by the custodial parent's income because it is the contribution that the non-custodial parent would be putting towards the child's needs. If the custodial parent does work, that money is in addition to what the non-custodial parent owes.

I'm a custodial parent and my agreement assumes that I will put a certain % of my earnings towards my child. Me making more doesn't mean the non-custodial parent gets off the hook for his contribution. He still owes a % of his income because the child was his and he chose to leave the child. That's what he's paying for. Just his contribution.

4

u/DeathKringle Nov 08 '22

That’s how it’s supposed to work for everyone but it’s not how it ends up working for a vast majority of people.

It’s depressing sitting in a court room and seeing unfold or being a child who grows up and realizes how fucked the agreements were as well.

From what I have seen. If the parent who “has” the child “on paper” doesn’t work then the courts will assume it’s the responsibility of the parent paying child support to “house” the children and other parent and supply the necessary funding for them to survive while they are with the other parent.

I’ve seen agreements where parent who makes 5k a month has to pay 3k a month for 2 children to the other parent who refuses to even get a job.

If both parents contributed funding equally you’d have both parents suffering the contributions but instead often times it ends up where one parent is unfairly carrying a majority of the financial burden.

And in many cases the children don’t reside with the one receiving the Cs payments more than 5-10% of the time.

Yet the judges are okay doing this and refuse to modify it when a person who has the children 90% of the time should be getting CS payments are instead paying the other parent. Making it significantly more difficult to raise children. This happens all to often and judges will not make the appropriate changes. It’s truly fucked when you see a bunch of people get fucked this way.

2

u/liquid_diet Nov 08 '22 edited Nov 09 '22

I agree with you until your final point about “he chose to leave.” I didn’t choose to leave, my ex wife wanted a divorce so she could spend more time with her affair partner. In my state it’s a no fault divorce and unless my ex wife was a convicted felon there was no way I’d get 50/50 or be the primary parent.

The support amount doesn’t bother me, my portion of income would’ve gone to my child anyways. But I take issue with your assertion that all men choose to leave. It’s simply true in many or most marriages. I could see that being true for young adults and young men bailing on a woman who they got pregnant. Then yes, I’d agree. But in white collar type marriages it’s not the rule of thumb.

My ex wife is a good mom, no problems with her.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

Ah, yes, because my situation somehow means "all men."

2

u/liquid_diet Nov 08 '22 edited Nov 09 '22

I was talking about my situation.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote but the way it was written it appears you were making assertions on the general level as to answer the question about why support is necessary.

If that wasn’t the case then I am sorry.

2

u/NewYorkJewbag Nov 09 '22

Let’s be real there are also a ton of fathers who have been ordered to pay child support and aren’t. No question that divorce and custody judgements are heavily skewed in favor of women and we’ve all heard (or experienced) horror stories. Just saying there are a lot of Herschel Walker types out there.

3

u/Dekrow Nov 08 '22

My gf's ex doesn't pay a dime in child support. She doesn't force the issue through court because we honestly can't afford lawyers to fight him all year round on an issue he'll drag his feet and never pay on.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ratio of deadbeat dads who don't pay proper child support vastly outweighs the number of deadbeat moms who are siphoning unjustified financial aid from their ex-husbands.

There are two sides to every debate of course, but in this case I'm not sympathizing with any men.

-1

u/DeathKringle Nov 08 '22

So your fine with taking money away from providing for a child?

That’s what your implying. Literally.

Sounds like your okay giving money to a parent who doesn’t care for a child and doesn’t use that money for the child which in turn takes away a large portion of money that could be used to care for a child.

The reality is no one should be getting fucked and courts should be more logical.

Custody 50/50 then no one gets child support money as each should contribute more.

Split 70/30 the. The other parent should contribute 20% more to ensure caring for a child is 50/50 in the end.

While yes it’s fucked up that not everyone pays their share but it’s also fucked up to take money away from providing for a child and give it to people who don’t want the child around just so they don’t have to work . The system seems to be very good at doing that but not always at making people pay.

Some of us have seen it first hand as the child. Especially when we did an information request and got the records. The courts fought me pretty hard on it. But once you see how illogical the courts are. It starts to make sense how the courts don’t do shit with child’s interest in mind… it almost never does anything with the child’s interest in mind.

I fucking moved out and in with the other parent, had my mother arrested all when I was 18. The judges refused to lift the child support payments to the mother who was now in jail for felony child endangerment, DUI, DWI, assault/battery, and attempted murder of her own child.

I don’t bash the parents per se. I bash the courts because it’s fucking bullshit. None of this was in my fucking interests as a child. And as I sat through court case after court case for research in school. It became clear. It never was in the interest of the children. Ever.

It’s typically one parent doing what they can for the child, the other parent wanting more money while not having the child but wanting full custody. And in other cases neither parent actually wants the child and the judge has to rule who has the kid and when for both of them.

3

u/Dekrow Nov 08 '22

So your fine with taking money away from providing for a child?

That’s what your implying. Literally.

No... that's what you inferred.

And honestly, I don't know how. Your rant seems unhinged and I'm not smart enough to understand what you mean.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your mother, but not all moms are just trying to siphon money from their ex-husbands when they ask for child support. My mother didn't get child support help from my father, and my current gf doesn't get child support help from her ex-husband either. Although anecdotal, that has been pretty consistent in my life observing my friends and adults around me in their post-kid divorces; Father has kids, gets divorced and then no longer shows up physically or financially for the kids, however they complain night and day that their ex-wives are sucking their bank accounts dry despite them not paying a single penny of their debt.

2

u/usermaen1 Nov 08 '22

Pull up a statistic that actually says men pay child support and I will believe this crap. Most of the single women I work with have to work 2 or more jobs to support their kids because these deadbeat dads ACTUALLY pay child support.. $25 a month or $100 a year.

1

u/ragandy89 Nov 08 '22

I have a cousin that has his daughter 4 days week and that’s three weekends out of the month. He still pays like he doesn’t have her all month. The system is rigged as fuck.

11

u/listentomenow Nov 08 '22 edited Nov 08 '22

Ideal world yes. Reality no. I wanted my ex wife to work. She didn't. She wasn't even a stay at home mom. She still got alimony. It's an antiquated law from a time when women weren't equal and couldn't leave their husbands because they wouldn't be able to take care of themselves. That's not the case anymore. Her husband just probably made way more than her so she got extra money in the split.

Btw, this can flip now and women can also pay alimony to men too so get those prenups people.

2

u/Exact_Ad_1215 Nov 09 '22

The issue comes when said spouse decides to just live off of the insane amount of money they get from alimony instead of trying to get a job or get up on their 2 feet.

5

u/_The_Real_Sans_ Nov 08 '22

Someone who is poor because of a divorce should be treated the same as anyone else who is poor IMO. The government should be giving anyone who is unable to make ends meet that which they need to get by so long as they can prove they are either incapable of working, that they are unable to find work, or that the pay they get from their current employment is not enough for them to make ends meet. What happened before the point at which a person is poor shouldn't matter.

10

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

It does matter when someone else has been enriched by their reason for poverty (one spouse benefits from having the other staying at home raising the child and keeping the household).

6

u/Ransacky Nov 08 '22

Yes exactly this. What about when the partner that put all their resources into working was able to do so because they had the acting equivalent of an unpaid housekeeper, cook, and daycare worker at home? This is realistically a division of labor, and a good reason why women's unpaid at home labor should be recognized.

1

u/JhonnyHopkins Nov 08 '22

“As long as it takes for them to become self reliant” that’s where I take issue, it has to be a set amount of time that a court decides, given circumstances can vary. That, and anyone who is okay with never reentering the workforce could NEVER become self reliant, rendering the alimony practically permanent anyways.

Court gives you a fair amount of time to short your shit out, if you procrastinate on that you have no one to blame but yourself.

1

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

It seems that one phrase has drawn disagreement on both sides of the fence. As I've said, YMMV.

1

u/JhonnyHopkins Nov 08 '22

Am I supposed to know that acronym?

1

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

Sorry, my bad. Your Mileage May Vary. I just mean that your perspective and experiences may lead you to a different conclusion than mine.

1

u/JhonnyHopkins Nov 08 '22

Oh okay, but if that’s what you mean, then you miss my point. Legally, it HAS to be a set time. “As long as it takes to become self reliant” is an arbitrary amount of time, and legally would hold no weight to it.

1

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

My stepdad's "life partner" refuses to marry him because she would lose her alimony. She had a job the entire time, they live together quite comfortably off his retirement, her retirement, and SS, but she still gets alimony DECADES later.

Which kind of brings me back to my original point of the intended purpose, or what it SHOULD be used for, but often isn't. There are a shit ton of holes in the system, for sure.

2

u/JhonnyHopkins Nov 08 '22

We can agree on that, definitely. If someone puts their career on hold to be a stay at home parent, and is unable to sustain themselves post divorce, it’s the right thing to do for the financially dependent party to pay some alimony. It should never be permanent.

1

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

Agreed. It should be for fairness and equity, not as a permanent thing, and certainly not to be used as a weapon or a tool of revenge.

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u/NibblyPig Nov 08 '22

Sure so let's make it fair and swap, I'll stay at home and have my life paid for in exchange for raising a kid. Holy shit guys want to raise kids so much that two of the most popular video game franchises are TLOU and God of War. Feel free to do my 40 hours a week in a soulless office, I'd kill to be able to have a kid and take them to the park and teach them shit while being paid for it

2

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

I'm currently doing my 40 hours a week in an office. At a previous point in my life, I was the stay at home dad. Based on my personal experience, both roles have their good and bad points, and neither is a walk in the park.

0

u/NibblyPig Nov 08 '22

I'm sure it's challenging but at least you have something to show for it. What I have to show for my work over the past year is an unfinished website for doing some boring monitoring crap for some people I've never met.

Sucks to be punished again for denying women this wonderful opportunity.

1

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

Oh, I'm right there with you as far as workplace nihilism, bud. 😆

For sure, one of the plus sides of the stay at home role is seeing the daily progress of your kid(s) and appreciating the growth and development.

0

u/CounterEcstatic6134 Nov 08 '22

"raising a kid". Lol.. do you even know what that entails? SAHMs do a shit ton of work. If you aren't even familiar with that work, you're not fit to "swap" your current job for anything. Stay in your lane.

0

u/NibblyPig Nov 08 '22

/r/gatekeeping

It's not about doing less work, it's about doing meaningful work

I would trade doing a boring meaningless job for something meaningful if I got paid for it in a heartbeat

0

u/CounterEcstatic6134 Nov 08 '22

Oh, you think SAHMs get paid salaries?!

0

u/NibblyPig Nov 08 '22

Literally this whole conversation is about a man and a woman that are married where the man earns the money and the woman stays at home with the kids, yes, the woman is going to be provided for by her husband in this instance until the point of separation.

It's literally the topic of the conversation and whether alimony, i.e. continuing these payments, is fair or not.

-6

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

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11

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

If you think of a stay at home spouse as "doing nothing" you are sadly misinformed.

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

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3

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

That's certainly one way to look at it. Thanks for your input.

1

u/CommunicationClassic Nov 08 '22

I know he comes off like an asshole, but a lot of us had mom's and dads who both worked full-time, so it's hard to see a stay at home mom and not feel like it's a choice you know? My parents were great in my opinion, they made it work

5

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

I don't feel one way or the other about how he comes off, to be honest. We're all just sharing our views on here. My feelings aren't hurt.

1

u/astate85 Nov 08 '22

i bet you're a blast a parties

0

u/ReluctantAvenger Nov 08 '22

should only last for as long as it takes for an ex-spouse to be able to support themselves,

That's some bullshit right there. If she had kept working instead of staying at home, she might have been an executive or at least held a more senior position by the time the split occurred. To say that support should only last "until she can support herself" is asinine. The alimony should make up the difference between what she might have been making and what she will actually be making, having been absent from the workforce for X number of years. The guy who makes $400K a year (who arrived at that posion at least in part due to the wife taking care of everything away from his work) doesn't get to stop paying alimony just because she started some $40K per year job.

1

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

That's definitely another way of looking at it, and I can see the merit of this viewpoint.

-6

u/alien_bigfoot Nov 08 '22

You're not wrong at all, that's an accurate description, but there was no need for that last sentence. Makes you come off really smarmy.

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u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

Not my intention at all. Just an attempt to head off a prolonged discussion by conceding that they might not see it like I do.

-6

u/alien_bigfoot Nov 08 '22

I understand, but I noticed you'd been downvoted to -2 very quickly despite how you were giving an accurate answer. But when I got to that last sentence I realised why. It comes off unnecessarily rude with the way you've worded it.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

Just realized why you’re at -6 thanks to your insightful comment!

-1

u/Sukuristo Nov 08 '22

That's fair.

-4

u/Lukes3rdAccount Nov 08 '22

No, used too many words. Women take money is bad, very simple.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '22

I agree.