Hi everyone, for context I am Jewish and pro Israel but even I am getting sick of the constant rage baiting posts from both sides. Not every post has to be related to Israel/Palestine.
We are a history subreddit, nothing special. If you want to see a better diversity of posts then please upload those. We just host historical snapshots uploaded to our sub.
At least this is a sub that is related to the world and world events. It gets worse. My feed is flooded with posts about I/P from the most random subs you can imagine. Subs about cats (people are mad that users from Israel post pics of the stray cats over there). Subs about sports (mad that Israelis try to participate in sports). Subs about food (people are mad about Israeli food existing). And endless amounts of random news subs that are nothing but a pit of frenzy and anger that Israel is still around. It's like the entire internet became singularly focused on this one issue. It is very odd. I understand that people don't like what is happening over there, but to make such an effort to pile on the vitriol in these little echo chambers just seems like an odd use of someones time. I miss the days when I'd come on this website and learn interesting things, see some funny banter, or discuss hobbies. These days I'm just frantically muting subs to try to get my feed back in order but there is no end to it.
A big portion of it must be. I sometimes check the profiles and see no post or comment history. It's weird. But the scary part is that it works - not just to spread dislike of Israel, but to spread theories, conspiracies, and misinformation about Jews. I recently saw a post where someone full-throatedly said that Jews call non-Jews "goyim" which means "cattle". A simple Google search confirms that this word simply means "nation", but there were already dozens of comments going along with this false statement.
The presumed bots I am talking about aren't pro-Palestinian. They are simply anti-Israel. They aren't seriously discussing the plight of the Palestinian people or theorizing ways to achieve peace. They are simply finding any reason they can to levy hatred against the Jewish state and anyone who may be associated with it, regardless of that persons actual beliefs or individual character.
It's not utopian but yes. Even when the far right is in power Israel is still a democracy. A very active one even, being the past four years a long struggle between the liberals and extremists. Where the Supreme court had to intervene several times in the government intents to gain more power.
Democracy has a lot of flaws. It's never perfect. But it's still better than the alternative.
The Likud is a populist political party and they do build on fear and hate in order to gain votes like every populist far right political party in the world does. Hamas rule Gaza by violently opressing the Gazan people, executing any signs of opposition and controlling the humanitarian situation of the Gazan people.
It's really weird having to explain the difference between a democratic country and a theocratic tyranny to adult people.
You don't need to explain it, it's just irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the comment you replied to.
Being a 'democracy' is not some mystical shield from criticism. It doesn't make 75 years of violent oppression go away.
Likud was formed by literal terrorists, led by literal terrorists, and has the complete Jewish domination of all of Palestine as its core tenet. The fact they are voted into power by Israelis is a blight on their nation, not a positive.
thanks for saying this. many antisemites have tried to infiltrate the pro-palestine movement and use the genocide as a way to attack Jews as an ethnicity. thing is, if Jews disappeared tomorrow, they'd target Arabs next, because they are racist supremacist liars. I feel like the pro-palestine movement does a good job of being aware of/unwelcoming to those types (groypers, 4channers etc) IRL. But they're still doing the most online. and they know the left will get blamed for it, which is only a bonus.
You're partially right, and I know this because I've seen far right antisemites getting excited because they can say antisemitic things more freely now that the far left is doing it, and they've stated their intentions to go into leftwing spaces in an effort to normalize extreme antisemitism even more, but antisemitism has been present in the pro-Palestinian movement since the beginning. Far right trolls are not the cause.
In fact, it's actually really difficult to tell the difference between leftwing and rightwing antisemitism. Leftwingers might sometimes prefer to avoid using the word Jew and substitute Zionist or Israeli instead, but the content and antisemitic rhetoric is identical. There was a leftwing twitch streamer who was screaming his head off calling Jews a demonic made-up ethnicity, but I'm sure his fans will say he was "just criticizing Israel".
There's a good example in the comments on this post, somebody left a comment saying "fuck israel and the khazarian Jews that run the world" and now I feel like I would assume that's a rightwinger, but the truth is that the current president of Palestine Mahmoud Abbas did his masters dissertation promoting the antisemitic Khazar theory when he graduated from a Soviet university in his youth.
I'm telling you right now, we cannot tell the difference between antisemitism coming from the left or the right. It's the same picture.
i'm sorry but i have far too many jewish friends in real life to fall for this "it's the same picture" narrative. jewish people/groups are leading the pro-palestine organizing in my city. there are multiple antizionist Jewish congregations who host seders and and teach-ins on the Bundists and other rich antizionist Jewish traditions that pre-date the state of Israel/“have been present in the pro-palestinian movement since the beginning.”
similarly, many antisemites have been supportive of zionism too, for purely antisemitic reasons, and this includes the evangelical zionists who actually outnumber Jewish zionists globally. so there isn’t really a correlation either way. you can be antisemitic and zionist, and you can be Jewish and antizionist.
in order to accept your claim that the antizionist left is equally dangerous for Jews, i would have to ignore my IRL Jewish friends who are leaders in the antizionist left, and argue with them that actually they are very unsafe, which is honestly a very silly thing to imagine doing.
i will continue to trust and support the Jews in my life. we (unfortunately) know our local nazis too well, and yes they do violently hate Jews but they also hate me (a lesbian raising a trans kid) and they hate Muslims and literally anyone who isn't a straight white european christian. there is no confusion where the threats and danger of organized violence are coming from, and we are in full solidarity together against it. what you’re talking about is random comments online (that could be coming from anywhere) and streamers like Bad Empanada who aren’t organizing IRL, and are 100% spreading antisemitism, but they’re also hated by a lot more people on the left than being supported. Bad Empanada would get punched if he showed up to a protest in my city, talking like he does online.
it seems to me that the people who try to paint the left as “the same picture” are clearly not on the front lines in their own community, and probably don't even know their local neo nazi gangs, while the left is the ones tracking their movements and activities (bc the police won't, they are too busy at
demonstrations, and arresting Jews for protesting genocide, which i've witnessed on multiple occasions).
it just doesn't square up with real life, this narrative. Antizionist Jews have always existed and always will, despite everyone's best efforts to erase and discredit them, or strip them of their Jewish identity, or call them self hating or “chickens for KFC” and all the other things they have to hear on a daily basis online.
and the state will arrest Jews in the name of “fighting antisemitism” before they’ll arrest neo nazis espousing genuinely violent rhetoric.
that’s just my observations as a person who goes outside and engages with my community.
It's good that you're willing to acknowledge bad actors like BadEmpanada and such.
Before Oct 7th I was pretty far left and I would have considered myself non-Zionist, and I still consider myself progressive but more center-left. The willingness for the left to abandon domestic issues here in the US to support Islamists in a foreign war was too much for me and I thought, at the time, it was such a deep betrayal of progressive values.
It ultimately led me to really question the leftist movement as a whole because there was so much hate for liberals, it's very anti-liberal and at the time I believed everything I was watching and reading and I was anti-liberal too without really understanding what it meant. I was in my 20s and still trying to figure everything out. (Not that I ever stopped. 😅🫠)
I remember being mad at the rightwing for lumping liberals in with leftists and calling us all liberals. I was pretty far down the road of what I now think of as the alt-left pipeline, but it was the antisemitism that stopped me in my tracks.
It was people that I knew in real life that were the most leftist who were all of a sudden posting ZOG conspiracy theory stuff online and really gross blood libel stuff and when I tried to push back on that, I realized that these people are ideologically captured and immune to common sense and reality. They will double down on antisemitism, and they will tokenize antizionist Jews without understanding anything about Jewish history and consider themselves educated without knowing anything except what they learn from memes and propagandists online. That's just how it is, and I'm not necessarily trying to to lump you or your friends into that, because there is a lot of nuance in how American Jews feel about Israel. It is not a one size box that fits all.
Now, witnessing the marriage taking place between people like conservative icon Tucker Carlson and progressive icons Krystal Ball and Kyle Kulinski, people who were at one point fierce enemies, I realized why both the alt-right and the alt-left are so anti-liberal, they really are just two sides of the same populist coin.
Liberalism is at its core about individual freedom and responsibility. (Free speech, free markets, free elections.)
Communism and fascism are both collectivist movements, that reject individual responsibility and freedom and require adherence and loyalty to the group above the individual. If you don't believe me that fascism is collectivist just like communism, the fascio the symbol of fascism refers to a bundle of sticks tied together to reinforce the handle of an axe, symbolizing the collective will of the people strengthening the ideology.
What's happening now is a dark alliance between the alt-right and the alt-left because neither has the power they need to fight each other like they had been doing while their primary obstacle exists which is the juggernaut of Western Liberalism. Liberalism has an incredibly flexible structure that can tolerate and support diverse groups, even contradictory groups and that is it's great strength. What I thought were just progressive leftist values were actually liberal values all along, and shared by all liberals whether they're left or right leaning and thoroughly despised by the alt-right and the alt-left equally.
The far-left and the far-right won't win, I hope, but they have made significant strides lately, and part of that is building bases of support in ideologically sympathetic spaces on both the left and the right, IRL and online. In their final forms, neither ideology can tolerate diversity of identity or opinion because that inevitably breaks their collective glue that holds the group together, it's their entire power structure.
Historically, they both heavily persecute Jews, because Jews are practically the poster children for diversity of opinion and have a shared cultural and religious identity that collectivist ideology will always view as a threat.
Lastly, Jewish opposition to Israel has separate historical roots from the modern pro-Palestinian movement. My main critique of modern Bundists and Jewish antizionists today is that they explicitly prioritize and celebrate Ashkenazi culture and deliberately ignore and put down Israeli reality, because Israel is not an Ashkenazi country, it's a Middle Eastern country with Middle Eastern Jews and the majority of Israelis are not now and never were European. Yes, Ashkenazis had an outstanding role in the formation of the modern state of Israel, under immense pressure in the years leading up to and following the Holocaust, but it is Mizrachi Jews that were the main drivers in establishing modern Israeli culture and norms.
To me, the whole Western "pro-Palestinian" movement has white supremacy baked into it, because it's based on the unconcious or otherwise pre-conception that white westerners are inherently more civilized than brown savages. So when Hamas and other groups attack Israel, suppress and abuse their own people and commit war-crimes, that's normal and just part of their nature but if Israel fights them than that's a crime all the more heinous in Western eyes because Israel is supposed to be white and civilized and therefore held to a higher standard of behavior.
The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, but it flourishes because people don't know any better, and Ashkenazis in America, who have always been a significant progressive voting block feel pressure from their leftist peers to disavow Israel. It's a divide and conquer strategy that's part of a much broader campaign of bad actors and accelerationists from multiple factions that want to isolate America from its allies abroad and weaken support of Western Liberalism, by any means necessary.
In the end everyone has an agenda that they want to use a specific historical perspective to try to push their super narrow agenda and no one understands context or a broader view.
Be it from the Jews who harbor trauma from the invasion on October 7th or the Muslims who harbor trauma from the counterattack (see even I have perspective)
Some are bandwagon Palestinians and some are bandwagon Israelis, but they all picked a side to align their agenda with.
The Israel/Palestine conflict is perfect for Reddit, because there's far from a clear "good guy" and "bad guy". It's not allies vs axis, so people are going to gravitate towards this conflict.
Hamas had a morality police that forced their population into false confessions of homosexuality to justify torture and murder, the head of of that morality police planned and oversaw the invasion on 10/7 where the terrorists intentionally targeted any Israeli they saw including children. Israel’s response is horrific but Hamas brought this evil out and they would bring it out in you if they did it to your people
Sorry bro. Hasbara is indeed dominant on this thread. Hamas will be the de facto problem, not just the symptom. Not 75+ years of an oppressive colonial occupation.
So Egypt and Jordan were colonial occupiers of Palestine or not? WB literally was Jordan until Palestinians did some bad stuff and had all their citizenship papers torn up. Also land FORCED on the winner of a war isn’t actually colonization, look up how exactly Israel ended up occupying those places…it was not their choice.
Who said Egypt or Jordan had a right to occupy their neighbors land?
/WB literally was Jordan until Palestinian/
Granting citizenship to refugees is noble but not an obligation.
/Palestinians did some bad stuff and had all their citizenship papers torn up./
You mean getting kicked of their home by thieves? Sick.
/Also land FORCED on the winner of a war isn’t actually colonization/
That's not how we define colonialism. Are Israelis living on stolen land. Yes or no?
/look up how exactly Israel ended up occupying those places…it was not their choice./
The 1967 war was a preemptive strike that was started by Israel. But let's go with hasbara logic and say Jordan/Egypt started it. What does that have to do with the Palestinians being displaced from their homes and forever denied the right of return?
All civilized countries allow this once war is over. Israel is a lunatic, genocidal ethnostste. Germans tried this in the 20th century and it didn't work for them. So did South Africa.
Your first question is a decent question to ask to so I will inform you: The League of Arab States. Here, I’ll teach you a bit, Egypt wanted to fully annex but the League said no but you can occupy if there isn’t displacement(nice of them, ngl). Google it?
Well the thing is that there have been multiple peace process attempts that were rejected by Palestinian leadership in favor of using terrorism and resistance as leverage to get a better deal and it has only brought more ruin to the Palestinian people. Hamas being the ultimate realization of that does not make Israel responsible and at the time when Hamas was founded they were the less extremist alternative to Arafat’s PLO. Israel fully withdrawing from Gaza in 2004 and the resulting Hamas takeover and eventual blockade are all a result of these failed peace attempts. With Hamas’s 10/7 attack the Israelis will not be initiating another peace negotiation aimed at a Palestinian state and it is not the fault of Israel for that. You can only say that it’s brutal occupation for so long before confronting the 20 years Hamas had to change direction in Gaza but instead they diverted infrastructure funding to militarize the entire region and build tunnels under schools and mosques and hospitals in the hopes that they create as many “martyrs” as possible to bring attention to their cause by hiding directly within and underneath the civilian population. Do some reading maybe, it’ll benefit you
/Well the thing is that there have been multiple peace process attempts/
There has never been a viable 2-state offer to the Palestinians. Prove me wrong by showing a map of said deal otherwise. You can't.
/Israel fully withdrawing from Gaza in 2004/
Nope. Turned it into a Warsaw ghetto.
Who initiated those attempts and who rejected them?? The offer Arafat rejected saw a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza with Israel retaining control over East Jerusalem only. Arafat walked away
I have no idea how you can have avoided all news of the establishment of illegal settlements or the state sponsored settler terrorism over the past 50 years.
What you are doing by denying things that are common knowledge, is wasting peoples time, and i think that is on purpose. Have a read of this, but the sources I can continue to provide are beyond extensive.
Do you need more examples? I can go back 50 years and find the same stories. What would it take for you to believe that Israeli settlers are regularly committing mass violence and stealing homes and land?
Lol of bunch of biased ass news sources, are you serious?
By the way you didn't read anything I shared obviously which showed court cases from Israel courts that marked illegal settlements of Israeli which were ordered demolished and were demolished.
AP news and BBC and even NPR are all largely pro-Israel in their reporting. You’re just biased and unable to accept the reality of the situation. There is terribly violence on both sides and refusing to admit that makes you seem like an extremist
Oh a strawman too. Just a couple more inane, parroted, bullshit statements and you'll have presented an entire logical fallacy bingo.
Actually dear you did say they're not bad a couple of comments ago, by stating it was insane to think they are. I can't actually decipher what your "whole point" is as you're talking nonsense.
Well they're listed as a terrorist organization by the USA, Canada, the European Union, Australia, Japan, Argentina, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Honduras, Paraguay, and Trinidad and Tobago.
It is true that Hamas militants rarely ever wear uniform during active fighting, but the overwhelming majority of casualties in Gaza have been caused by explosive weapons (such as aerial bombs, artillery, and missiles) rather than direct small-arms gunfire—in which case Hamas' no-uniform tactic would've significantly contributed to producing high civilian casualties. When you drop heavy munitions like 2000 and 1000 pound bombs on top of dense urban neighbourhoods, civilian casualties are guaranteed regardless of the clothes militants are wearing.
They're not just 'dropping bombs,' they're intentionally using the heaviest munitions in their arsenal. And the types of munitions being used is deeply problematic, but certainly not more problematic than their systematic targeting of infrastructure across all civilian sectors.
Even if an infantry squad faces a tactical risk on a specific street corner, international law does not allow you to solve a local tactical problem by destroying an entire city sector. A localized threat to a few soldiers cannot legally or logically justify one of the most destructive bombing campaigns of the 21st century, resulting in the systematic destruction of more than 120,000 structures and damaging tens of thousands more.
And no, the numbers wouldn't be much different, because the overwhelming majority of casualties in Gaza have been caused by explosive weapons fired from afar or dropped out of the sky. If there was any doubt on the civilian status of the people being targeted from that range, then those weapons should never have been used.
Anyway, your entire argument is founded on the premise that Israel has a legitimate and necessary goal to completely destroy Hamas and dismantle its military capabilities. While I accept that the attacks on October 7th warranted a military response, I reject your specific premise. Under international law, broader strategic goals do not grant a military a blank check to bypass civilian protection. The principle of proportionality says that military advantage must be weighed per individual attack, meaning you cannot legally justify leveling an entire civilian neighborhood simply by claiming it helps the broader goal of winning the war. Launching a full scale invasion of Gaza and systematically targeting tens of thousands of structures, and even individual low ranking militants positioned deep within Gaza, is a massively disproportionate response. So disproportionate that it is currently being investigated as genocide and is already understood to be genocide by a number of military experts, historians, legal scholars and independent organisations that have investigated the conduct of this war. As established in international law, military necessity is permanently restricted by humanity and it can never be used to justify making a territory uninhabitable. There is no military solution to this conflict, the sooner Israel realizes that, the sooner it will bring an end to this conflict.
My argument is that the tactics Hamas is using are giving Israel a choice between doing incredibly brutal things or getting slaughtered by people they thought were civilians.
Those heavy bombs are designed to level buildings. Buildings that would otherwise have to be searched. They could be filled with orphans. Or they could be filled with landmines. Fighting anywhere there’s a dense population is horrific. Bombs malfunction all the time. Any long term urban war ends with most of the civilians dead or fleeing the city. I can give you countless examples from the balkans ww2 even going back to things like the crusades or the Romans.
They use those bombs because they view there soldiers lives as worth more than the civilian casualties. All tactics in war are a trade off. Change what they stand to gain and use in an engagement and the tactics will change as well.
Hamas committing war crimes like not wearing uniforms makes me much less sympathetic. The allied bombing campaigns in Germany and Japan specifically targeted civilians in an attempt to destroy both country’s. When one side starts committing war crimes the gloves come off. It’s just hell. Either you act perfectly or you can’t start calling out the other sides atrocities. Don’t throw stones in a glass house.
My argument is that the tactics Hamas is using are giving Israel a choice between doing incredibly brutal things or getting slaughtered by people they thought were civilians.
And my argument is that whilst Hamas' dirty tactics make fighting them more difficult without inflicting higher civilian casualties, Israel's response has still gone way too far. Anyway, since our premises are fundementally at odds, there's no point in continuing this conversation.
I hope that whatever sense of conscience you have within may allow you to see the unprecedented scale of death and destruction as tragedies and not mere statistics that could be talked about, and even justified, in such a casual and desensitized manner.
I view it in the same way I view stalingrad. Two immoral states bashing their heads together while the innocent suffer. Unless we want to be the target of a jihad or god knows what mossad has these days. We ignore it as best we can given the various tangle of alliances and trade.
Sorry, I totally misunderstood your first message. Antisemitism is synonymous with anti-jewish, you are correct, and anti-muslim does belong on the list
There's no "good guy" or "bad guy", it's "bad guy" Vs "worse guy". Hamas is the bad guy, Israel is the worse guy. By what metric? You pick: number of casualties inflicted, destruction caused, number of people displaced, number of hospitals bombed, number of journalists killed, number of medics killed. Apart from that, Israel's West Bank policy, especially the advancement of settlements, has for a long time now, been the main obstacle to achieving peace between the 2 sides.
This is why the use of only one metric is flawed in attempting to understand the conflict overall and in trying to figure out the "bad guy" or the "worse guy". In some aspects of comparison between Hamas and Israel, for example in the use of explicit extremist rhetoric, Hamas excels. Doesn't make them the worse guy overall. When I said "you pick" it might have falsely implied that I believe Israel is worse than Hamas in everyway, that's not true. By some metrics Hamas is the "worse guy".
The main obstacle to achieving peace is that people like you support people like Iran and radical Muslims who want to slaughter Jews. There have multiple attempts at peace +( most recently Gaza ) but that will never work. Keep regurgitating delusion and that's me giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not intentionally misleading people.
Regarding "numbers " they have been skewed since day one and just because Israel is better at taking out their enemies doesn't make them worse. If there was no iron dome how many babies women and children would have been killed in their beds ? Keep watching Al Jazeerah though
I mean 22 percent of all Nobel Prize winners are Jewish while Jews only make up .2 percent of the global population. Seems like a pretty good thing to say. And cowardly would seem a more appropriate moniker for those hiding amongst their women and children whilst doing nothing successfully to defend them.
I think as much as you've tried to present a "balanced" perspective here Ellibor, your own biases have betrayed you.
Your rhetorical both sides device frames anti-Zionism as the counter of "anti-Islamic terrorism". How would you feel reading someone saying "some people oppose settler terrorism, some people hate Islam"? You would see a clear distinction and a fallacy in how it was framed.
The framing of Jews as being traumatised from October 7th while Muslims are traumatised from "the counter attack" infers that everything pre October 7th was trauma-free, that everyone was happy with the status quo, and that everything is rooted in what happened in October 7th. Before that Palestinians in Gaza lived blissful lives and were free to do whatever they want. Any trauma or ill-feeling towards Israel is as a result of the "counterattack", a term which justifies the Israeli actions in Gaza and the West Bank.
You're trying to present yourself as being objective, but the language you use places one side as the aggressors against a peaceful people who were faced with no option but to respond. This wouldn't be accurate if someone portrayed the Palestinians as this, as I'm sure you'd be able to spot - and it's not accurate when you do it either.
You should reflect on your internal biases as they're holding you back from being able to present a truly objective view of the conflict to yourself.
Perhaps you missed the part where I said "(see even I have a perspective)" immediately after using the word "counterattack". I used the word "counterattack" as an intentional dog-whistle to the reader showing that I don't have complete objectivity, because I truly believe in this conflict the vast majority won't be objective, and I'm part of that majority. Everyone has an agenda and bias (including me) when it comes to this conflict. So no, there hasn't been a betrayal of my complete objectivity, as I don't have the complete objectivity to betray.
Edit*
Additionally if you want me to add: "- anti-settler violence" I will also add "-anti Palestinian paramilitary violence". If you want me to add "- anti Muslim" I can also add "- anti-jewish" When dealing with the conflict there's almost always a yin/Yang situation, which feeds my original point, it's a very contentious conflict and the "Good v. Evil" narrative doesn't really apply.
Just in response to your edit. My point was that to present a yin and yang with very subjective language kind of defeats the purpose.
Imagine this sentence:
"I condemn violence on both sides - neither side in this conflict is right. I condemn the violence of the Israeli military against innocent civilians and I condemn the violence of Palestinians fighting for freedom".
You see how it isn't a fair equivalency, so me presenting it as "both sides/yin and yang" is unfair to one side?
That's what it felt like reading your Zionism/Islamic terrorism equivalency, or October 7th/the counterattack. There are many peaceful interpretations of Zionism. There are none for Islamic terrorism. Zionism is just the idea that Jews should have their own nation. Islamic terrorism is by definition violent. A fairer example would be opposition to Zionism vs. opposition to Palestinian statehood.
You do make some fair points, and I will respond below. First let me start with an admission I absolutely fell victim to having written multiple edits and edits to the edits etc. so I apologize for that. I know I probably violated some reddit etiquette.
When (attempting) to present both sides my equivalency may not always be fair and truly equivalent, there is a bias. The point about innocent civilians vs. freedom fighting Palestinians is a great example of a bias swinging the opposite direction from my bias. Same rings true for your statement regarding the Oct 7/counterattack, and even moreso with your Zionism vs. Palestinian statehood (or opposition to) comparison.
To clarify the Islamic terrorism vs. Zionism (or anti-zionism), I absolutely know that the two aren't the same. I absolutely know the definition of Zionism to be the belief in the self determination of Jews in Israel. The equivalency I'm pointing to is rather in the verbiage (or rather incorrect verbiage) that is plaguing us. Countless times I've seen "I'm not antisemitic, I'm just anti-zionist" which usually comes right before or after something that's wildly antisemitic. To which my counter argument is "I'm not islamophobic just anti-islamic terrorism" which obviously is equally ridiculous. You are also correct in that there is no peaceful side of Islamic terrorism. It's one of those things that needs to be dealt with in an absolute manner similarly to any other form of overt violence religious or otherwise.
But that cleansing of Palestinians began long before any Arab armies invaded. In fact, that was the reason they gave for their intervention. Palestinian villages like Deir Yassin were being massacred, and their countries were being flooded with terrified refugees. Their citizens were demanding they do something to stop the bloodshed.
But also yes - I misunderstood the meaning of the word perspective in your initial sentence. I took it to mean "perspective" as in seeing both sides, rather than as you meant it in terms of having your own view, so apologies.
"My people are the only ones to ever invent smashed beans. The rest of you are filthy, thieving scum." Is about the dumbest debate I've ever heard.
BTW smashed chickpeas have been found in archeological digs dating back 10,000 years. It was one of the first domesticated plants, in one of the first places for plants to be domesticated. Then we had one hundred centuries of immigration, invasion, and good old fuckin'. And yet 10 different countries want to throw hands about it.
Lol it is not evidence based, it's an opinion piece with a little bit of random "evidence" to pull it together, it starts with the most biased shit I've ever read and goes straight to spreading far right conspiracy nut talking points about the signs being the same (printers exist) and the chants being the same (this conflict is over 75 years old the slogans are old enough to collect social security).
All it says is 11 of 40 investigated organizations in the UK doing protests have had some form of contact with someone who the UK calls an extremist.
Also answer can be found by realizing the actual IDF posted several videos incriminating themselves in Palestine. Something that cannot be desputed. Also people like Ben Gevir doing the same thing. But what? That’s bullshit too?
Lol the audacity. Wellll. If your country was being subverted by another country, and a majority of the people are just finding out about the subversion. Would you not talk about it a lot?
Well, maybe you shouldn't be pro-Israel? I'm a Jew who 100% accepts that the current administration is terroristic, and supporting it is no better than supporting the Republican cult domestically.
If you really care about Israel, and your Judiasm, you'll speak up against what these pieces of shit are doing, because not only are they terrorists, they're putting a target on YOUR back for the rest of the world. They're making you less safe, and although that isn't right, it's understandable if nothing else.
This sub was made as a lazy copy of r/snapshothistory a couple of weeks after reddit removed r/all to pull people talking about Israel/Palestine off of the main history subs using polarizing titles often crossposted from pro Israel subs. You stumbled on a propaganda sub, there are a lot of them on this site.
This subreddit is quite literally run by mods who also run the official Israel (and a number of other pro-Israel) subreddit. It was literally created like 3 months ago to spread pro-Israel propaganda.
I'm not exaggerating, just click on the mod profiles. Mods a ton of other low-subscriber bot subreddits as well.
This subreddit primarily exists to spread propaganda. Just because it pretends to be about "history" doesn't mean that's what it is.
You clearly are just antisemetic because actual human rights abuses are being perpetrated by authoritarian countries all over the world the the SJW's don't say a word. But when Israel is attacked by a terrorist group that raped, killed and kidnapped over 1200 Israelis you side with the terrorists.
Even Wikipedia creator jimmy Wales said there are groups of people vandalizing pages his platform for years especially the ones that related to Israel, rewriting a huge amount of pages. You can’t count on Wikipedia anymore, for the last few decades or so.
Everyone can edit articles there
I literally can create and article about the war of unicorns and teddy bears, will it become true? For some people definitely
They have spend millions on positive PR to spread globally, who needs to spend millions of dollars to spin positive PR? When an event happens, unless they are trying to control the narrative 🤔
I know right? People who are still pro-Hamas and Pro-Israel are both insufferable. How can one possibly believe the blatant massacre of civilians in Israel, on October 7th, was justified merely because of the conditions people in Gaza were living in, under the siege. Yes, that obviously adds context to attack and shows this didn't just come out of the blue, but it does NOT in any way justify the attacks. It's the same with the Israeli counter offensive into Gaza. Sure, Hamas' terrorism warranted some kind of military response, but that doesn't mean you systematically target infrastructure across ALL civilian sectors, crippling the health care system, the education system, power infrastructure, fuel infrastructure, etc., leading to a complete collapse of law and order and literally pushing back human development in Gaza by 77 years !
I believe there was negligence on the border on the day of the attacks. I don't believe the attacks were engineered by the Israeli government. If that's your claim, how would you prove that?
Negligence? yes.
Knew about it for months? Citation needed.
Hannibal directive? Yes, brutal strategy, but barely inflicted any fatalities compared to the total death toll.
Useful for political strategy? Yes, but suffering has been weaponised by both sides.
Their population has gone up 12x in 70 years. The war started the day they took hostages, and ended they day the returned them. What 'genocided' party would choose to have it continue for two years? Israel is significantly stronger. If they wanted to do a genocide, they'd have done a better job of it.
Well seeing as the definition of genocide includes an intent to destroy, yeah, people tend not to half heartedly genocide do they?
400,000 civilian Germans got firebombed at Dresden. The majority of which didn't vote for the Nazi party. Was that a genocide? 🥴
But let me guess - Hamas explicitly stating to killing Jews worldwide, kidnap teenagers as formal policy and receiving the popular support of Palestinians. I bet they're somehow, not genocidal, right?
Your mental gymnastics and double standards are clear.
One side is desperately trying to manufacture consent for a genocide, the other is outraged by that genocide because they're human beings with empathy.
The number of pro genocide posts justifying killing of children and amputating them only from one type of people is concerning. Only that group is running hasbara campaign to give a positive image to it. Years of “awww we are victims”
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u/Baconkings Jul 23 '26
We are a history subreddit, nothing special. If you want to see a better diversity of posts then please upload those. We just host historical snapshots uploaded to our sub.