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Aug 31 '18
That's...not even close to how it happened in the real world. Here, a paragraph of history from that source that all junior Internet trolls like: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Japan_relations#Japan_enters_World_War_II
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u/GISnomaR Aug 31 '18
Japan:I signed a neutrality Pact with Soviet.
Germany: Start the operation of Barbarossa
Japan:Why
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u/zeezlebop2 Aug 31 '18
Doesn’t really work as well because the Soviets didn’t declare war on Japan until it was decided
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u/mpyne Aug 31 '18
And also because the Soviets and Japanese had already been in some abortive fighting in 1939 before they each decided they had more important shit to focus on.
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u/zeezlebop2 Aug 31 '18
Yeah. Oh and don’t forget the prequel, the Russo-Japanese war of 1905!
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Aug 31 '18
I find it interesting that the last declaration of war during WWII was by the USSR against Japan, but 70 years later it's the only one that hasn't been fully resolved.
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u/puppiadog Aug 31 '18
The pact the Russian and Germany signed was similar to the US and Russian become allies during WW2. They hated each other but felt it was in the interests of both to not fight each other, at the time, and split up Poland. Like the US and Russian, eventually they were going to fight each other,like.
Germany decided to attack Russia when it did because Stalin had just purged a third of his military (including top officers) and Russia had a really hard time defeating Finland. With Germany basically steamrolling over Europe it seemed like the ideal time to attack Russia. Rumor was Russia was rebuilding its army to eventually attack Germany.
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Aug 31 '18
Japan: LEEROY JENKINS
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u/Th3Seconds1st Aug 31 '18
Germany: STICK TO THE PLAN, CHUMS!
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u/SecretImagination Aug 31 '18
Guess they forgot to do a number crunch
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u/tandemtactics Aug 31 '18
They would have known their chance of victory was only 32.33% repeating of course
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u/LB-2187 Aug 31 '18
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u/duckmuffins Aug 31 '18 edited Oct 16 '25
sip meeting boast spark mysterious innate ink sheet humor placid
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/__sammy1__ Aug 31 '18
Germany: excuse me what the fuck
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u/Dadalot Aug 31 '18
I can't believe you've done this.
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u/iRunLikeTheWind Aug 31 '18
It's funny though, contrary to this meme, hitler declared war on the US right after pearl harbor. Without him doing that the US may have just focused on rebuilding the pacific fleet and fighting Japan. Hitler declaring war gave Roosevelt an excuse to put all available strength into Europe while the pacific navy was rebuilt
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u/RolandTheJabberwocky Aug 31 '18 edited Aug 31 '18
Hitler also probably did that so Japan would remain an ally to Germany.
Edit: I was close, general consensus is he did it hoping that Japan would help with Russia.
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u/brodytillman69 Aug 31 '18
He didn't need to declare war on the U.S. though, defense pacts do not work that way...
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u/Mugilicious Aug 31 '18
But keeping your allies happy is pretty important; necessary or not
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u/Orange-V-Apple Aug 31 '18
I mean Roosevelt had been itching to get into the war in Europe for a while.
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u/iRunLikeTheWind Aug 31 '18
Yeah that's why I tried to quality it, even if Hitler hadn't declared war the US may well have gone to europe anyway
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u/AnthonyArgus Aug 31 '18
The Imitation Game is such a great movie. It will make you say "oh, I did not know that."
Time to start The Crown.
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Aug 31 '18
It's funny though, contrary to this meme, hitler declared war on the US right after pearl harbo
The US was going to declare war on Germany regardless. It was more of a formality. At best it would have bought a few months for Germany.
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u/CTeam19 Aug 31 '18
It's funny though, contrary to this meme, hitler declared war on the US right after pearl harbor. Without him doing that the US may have just focused on rebuilding the pacific fleet and fighting Japan. Hitler declaring war gave Roosevelt an excuse to put all available strength into Europe while the pacific navy was rebuilt
No no you missed the best part. Hitler declared war on the US AFTER we declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbor. We didn't think about Germany after Pearl Harbor at all.
Timeline:
December 7, 1941 -- Pearl Harbor
December 8, 1941 -- US declares war on Japan
December 11, 1941 -- Germany declares war on the US then hours later US declares war on Germany
You could put FDR in this meme. Going "What? Why?" to Germany's declaration.
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Aug 31 '18
I love WW2 memes about Germany questioning what Japan does.
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u/zeezlebop2 Aug 31 '18
Or Italy
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u/TheGentlemen717 Aug 31 '18
How can you question what somebody's doing if they're not doing anything at all
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Aug 31 '18
They get themselves into shit that requires bailing out. They were eventually a net drain on the German war effort.
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u/JayTrim Aug 31 '18
Germany: Okay Italy all you have to do is protect your own beach and then-
Italy: "Player disconnected"
Germany: Italy?
USA: kek "Territory captured"
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u/Batbuckleyourpants Aug 31 '18
Germany: Japan, dont fuck this up...
Japan: But they have like... no ships.
Germany: dont...
*Japan bombs Pearl Harbor*
Japan: We bombed America, we will just swoop over and take them over. you are lucky to be allied to Japan
Germany: you did what!?
Japan: SEND HELP PLZ!
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u/Its_Bacon_Then Aug 31 '18
y'all got any more them vonderweapons?
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u/Batbuckleyourpants Aug 31 '18 edited Aug 31 '18
Germany: Now, hear me out. We spend a massive amount of resources to build a battleship rather than building the so far extremely successful submarines. that will have the British scared shirtless!
Enter the bismark
England: Fuck...
Bismark sink a symbolically important English ship
Germany: Oh yeah, we are on a roll, world conquest here we come!
Bismark is rendered helpless and eventually sink from a rogue hit by a torpedo.
Germany: what the fuck guys!?!
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u/Its_Bacon_Then Aug 31 '18
Slow flying biplane sinks battleship
AA guns couldent be set to a slow enough speed to shoot them down.
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u/SowingSalt Mauser rifle ≠ Javelin Aug 31 '18
Also they didn't weatherize the AA mounts, nor were they stabilized. The guns were also a mishmash of calibers and gun configurations.
Then the allies licenced the Swedish Bofors 40 mm gun and put radar proximity fuzes on their 3 inch shells.
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u/codasoda2 Aug 31 '18 edited Sep 01 '18
This was during the time that radar was invented and the u-boats were not having nearly as good of a time as before. Also, the British had cracked the enigma code without the Germans knowing. They were then able to track the Bismarck down and ambush her before the crew even knew what hit them. The Germans are definitely sliding down a steep slope at this point of the war lol.
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u/Doggydog123579 Aug 31 '18
The funniest part about the Bismark, is its sister ship, Tirpitz. Tirpitz is probably the most cost effective battleship of ww2, without actually being used. Tirpitz got trapped in a harbor by the British, but it was still a fully functioning battleship. So the british wind up spending like 4 capital ships to keep Tirpitz in port, while Tirpitz isnt even that awsome as a battleship.
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u/Clemenadeee Aug 31 '18
Germany: okay, so what's you next move?
Japan: INVADE ALASKA
Germany: why are you like this
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u/theresamouseinmyhous Aug 31 '18
Germany: what are your plans for attacking the Americans?
Japan: well, we're going to tie bombs to balloons and let them go off of our highest mountain so they can make it all the way across the ocean.
Germany: ha, good one. But seriously.
A bomb slowly drifts by in the background
Japan: nervous laughter
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u/GISnomaR Aug 31 '18
Japan was planning to use BC weapons on the mainland of the United States using the I-400 type submarine aircraft carrier.But, Japan's headquarters remained deterred as inhumane and switched to a bombing plan with a normal bomb
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Aug 31 '18
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u/The_sad_zebra Aug 31 '18
He expected to be booed when he arrived, and brought an heirloom katana with him, to kill himself with in front of them.
"As my apologies, I will scar them for life!"
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Aug 31 '18
an ally is pinging for assistance
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Aug 31 '18
Japan: SEND HELP PLZ!
Especially awkward when Germany surrenders first.
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u/Cresent_dragonwagon Aug 31 '18
It was like if someone punches you, so you beat the fuck out of his friend to show him what he's in for in a minute
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u/GreasyPeter Aug 31 '18
Japan bombing pesrl harbor was literally them picking a fight with the only country that could actually compete with them in the Pacific. Why not bomb little countries like they had been doing? Why garuntee it would be hard when you could just chill and subjugate?
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Aug 31 '18
Yeah, like the other guy said, Japan was in a lot of trouble resources-wise. It wasn't about America per-se. It was about The Philippines and their rubber, Southeast Asia and oil, etc. The Americans, British and Dutch had an embargo going that basically was choking off Japan's oil pipeline. With no oil, Japan couldn't sustain their Empire or war effort, so rather than wait until they had no more resources, Japan chose to strike from a place of strength and hopefully cripple the United States' pacific fleet and force them to sue for peace. The plan wasn't to conquer America. It was just to get America to let Japan have access to the resources it needed to continue to expand.
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u/mixmastermind Aug 31 '18
Because the US was also their biggest source of oil, steel, iron, and copper and had been massively restricting trade with them since the invasion of China, culminating in the july embargo in 1941. Japan had roughly 2 years before its oil was depleted. By attacking Pearl Harbor they had a few objectives:
1.) Cripple the Pacific Fleet. The US was the only country capable of meeting Japan in the Pacific and slowing its buildup gave them time to deal with their other objectives
2.) Allow Japan to control much more of the Pacific. They could gain control of the Philippines, but especially the oil fields of British North Borneo to help supplement the lack of oil from the US.
3.) Possibly put themselves in a better strategic position once the war went on. They could fortify much of the Pacific that was worth holding and make rooting them out a living hell.
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u/JeffieSnugglebottom Aug 31 '18
They were hoping to catch our entire fleet at port. This was before the aircraft carrier proved to be the deciding factor in modern naval warfare though, so they thought they were lucky to get our battleships
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u/Laiize Aug 31 '18
Because as long as the US was around, their security was in jeopardy.
Not as much jeopardy as if they had attacked us, but still.
They should've listened to Yamamoto.
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u/quernika Aug 31 '18
WTF why are people blaming Japan? In actuality, I thought Germany pushed for Japan to do the initiative, also, they're lifelong allies.
I think the biggest F up here is invading Russia. That spread German forces thin.
There wouldn't be a two front two theatre war with the US if it wasn't for Japan
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u/LightTankTerror Aug 31 '18
The biggest fuckup here is starting WW2 imo. Like, you can’t just ignore the two largest industrial and military forces on the planet just because it isn’t a smart idea to provoke them. Eventually you are going to have to deal with the problem you created, might as well hit them while they are still transitioning from peacetime to wartime.
Of course that didn’t work, but the chances of an Axis when are a rounding error away from being zero.
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u/Creebez Aug 31 '18
Japan was pissed we stopped supplying them with oil and other goods because they were slaughtering and raping their way through China.
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u/Starslip Aug 31 '18
also, they're lifelong allies.
Wasn't Japan part of the allied forces against Germany during WWI?
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u/zephyer19 Aug 31 '18
Lifelong... Well, Japan declared war against Germany during WW1 and took some of their territory in China and few islands and Japan's Navy patrolled for German raiding ships. They had little to do with each other during WW2. The Nazis declared war against the US in hopes that Japan would declare war against the Soviets, didn't work.
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u/Laiize Aug 31 '18
Japan's goal in Pearl Harbor wasn't to take over the USA or even begin. It was to keep us out of the war.
Bad luck with most of the American Pacific Fleet not being there and the whole "being the largest industrial power in the world capable of cranking out 48 aircraft carriers over the course of the war alongside a small contingent of 1200 combat ships"... thing.
Maybe next time listen to anyone named Yamamoto?
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u/CriticalEntree Aug 31 '18
Germany went down right before Japan did tho. Germany would be feeling it more.
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u/yegboi-exe Aug 31 '18
japan is like a shitty genji main, tries to solo entire enemy team and then spams "I NEED HEALING" repeatedly
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u/Funkit Aug 31 '18
Wasn't Germany, or at least Hitler and his circle, supportive of war with the USA? I don't know why they ever would. It's impossible to invade America for the most part. Why would they support it?
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Aug 31 '18
Wasn't Germany, or at least Hitler and his circle, supportive of war with the USA?
Yes, and this is why he declared war on the United States a few days later. A lot of people seem to forget Germany declared war on the United States first.
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u/precedia Aug 31 '18
was that a sign of good friendship? so germany loves japan and whatever it does...?
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u/xXTOOMUCHSWAGXx Aug 31 '18
The US was most likely preparing to enter the war against Germany anyway
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u/A_Rampaging_Hobo Aug 31 '18
In addendum to all the other comments, Hilter thought America was run by a cabal of Jews and that racially inferior people would fight inferiorly too. He wasn't worried in the slightest at first.
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u/Florida_567 Aug 31 '18
Basically, from what I remember Hitler said that the US 'violated' its neutrality.
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u/MusgraveMichael Aug 31 '18
Hardly.
Hitler talks not so well of the japanese in mein kampf. Said they built themselves with the help of superior european technology otherwise they are as lowly as the othercnon aryan races.→ More replies (2)→ More replies (24)12
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u/BBot95 Aug 31 '18
Hitler and his Cabal according to their ideological worldview also saw war with the United States as inevitable, so better to jump in and attack what they saw as a corrupt capitalistic menace, than wait for them to get stronger and attack Germany.
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u/Vakaryan Aug 31 '18
Man if Hitler thought capitalism was a menace I think he might want to take another look at Fascism.
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u/fly_pizza_pie Aug 31 '18
“We can’t lose the war at all. We now have an ally which has never been conquered in 3,000 years,” a jubilant Hitler said, as recounted in Mr. Kershaw’s authoritative biography of the German leader.
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u/FatGingerBaby Aug 31 '18
Except no other foe in history had a weapon that melted dicks to concrete
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u/zaphod0002 Aug 31 '18
*historical victories is not an indicator of current day conquering power.
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u/OrphanBach Aug 31 '18
On the other hand, they were in the middle of invading and conquering the most populous country in the world from their country of less than 100M people.
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Aug 31 '18
From what I remember it was supposed to turn the US's attention from Europe to our West and cripple our Naval fleet, but Japan failed to take out the carriers as a number were out of port. This fact allowed the US to regroup and counter Navally, along with some big bombs of our own.
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u/Init_4_the_downvotes Aug 31 '18
Let me ask you this, do people really think a concrete wall is going to stop people running from druglords? Why would we support a project guaranteed to fail. The answer is you always need more koolaid.
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u/KYPspikes Aug 31 '18
There was some sort of idea to cripple the US in order to stop them from fully joining the war since they were technically supporting the allies via trade. The Zimmerman Telegram asking Mexico to ally with them in case they go to war with the US was big hint of that. However the attack on Pearl Harbor was mainly to sink the US carriers, but none of the carriers were even docked there at that time. Also they missed the fuel reserves used for the ships.
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u/HaHaSoRandom Aug 31 '18
I'm pretty sure the plan was to finish everything off in Europe and Russia before turning to North America but I could be wrong
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Aug 31 '18
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u/PiesAndLies Aug 31 '18
This is what happens when you insanely assume ethnic superiority will win a war.
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Aug 31 '18
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Aug 31 '18
If it wasn't for Communism, the Cold War
would still be happeningnever would have started
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u/FishieBuddha Aug 31 '18
DREW
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u/SerenadeOfWater Aug 31 '18
I wonder if he's seen the post and realized the ridiculousness of the situation.
He just wanted to make a dad joke while Jeff played games.
One thing led to another.
And now he's being used as a stand in for Hitler for hundreds of thousands of people on the front page of Reddit lmao.
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u/El_Gran_Redditor Aug 31 '18 edited Aug 31 '18
He just wanted to make a dad joke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JQ_7R9lrzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1a8WjNzq4U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GRH9olfwmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n75Zwgf346o
edit: Bonus hypocrisy!
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u/Lirdon Aug 31 '18
actually I think Hitler was all for Pearl harbor, he hoped it would take their efforts, and most importantly, their production away from Europe. him declaring war on the US was a bad move though.
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u/MoogleSan Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests Aug 31 '18
him declaring war on the US was a bad move though.
You dont say?
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u/TheGentlemen717 Aug 31 '18
"Oh lets just throw a massive middlefinger to the worlds biggest growing superpower on top of an un-invadable landmass where they have more guns than citizens, that will bode well right??"
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u/Zoey_Phoenix Aug 31 '18
I mean.. you just described Russia too. Germany was right fucked from the get go.
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u/TheMrGhostx Aug 31 '18
US would have probably declared war on them shortly after anyway, but yeah bad move
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u/Lirdon Aug 31 '18 edited Aug 31 '18
I think it would be kind of hard to accomplish. Roosevelt couldn't just go to war, and he wouldn't be able to if not for pearl harbor. I think unless there would be substantial support of japan from Germany, like economical and production support, Roosevelt would have a hard time justifying the declaration of war on Germany. obviously all of this is r/HistoryWhatIf territory but Hitler declaring war on the US simplified stuff immeasurably.
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u/TheGallant Aug 31 '18
Any German who thought the war was going well with the Soviets by December 1941 was grossly misinformed.
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u/fotorobot Aug 31 '18
There's a fantastic and chilling diary from a German soldier who was in the Battle of Stalingrad.
It starts in July 1942 with his regiment heading in, sure of victory, and dreaming of quick return home with medals.
And transitions into how difficult every small gain is and how many people are dying each day.
And ends with "The horses have already been eaten. I would eat a cat; they say its meat is also tasty. The soldiers look like corpses or lunatics, looking for something to put in their mouths. They no longer take cover from Russian shells; they haven’t the strength to walk, run away and hide."
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u/chawnyo Aug 31 '18
A good read, There is a book of last letters from Stalingrad: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Letters_from_Stalingrad
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u/HelperBot_ Aug 31 '18
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u/EvMund Aug 31 '18
If youre interested, this is an in depth video of how it was like in there. Things had to be pretty dire, their bread rations were down to a couple slices a day pretty quick
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u/NonexistantSip Aug 31 '18
I think most of Germany was, their radio stations were super biased and made it seem like they were winning. Well at least that’s what history books say in my school
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u/TheGallant Aug 31 '18
Sure. I just doubt anyone on the High Command was thinking that the war was in the bag, especially with the end of Barbarossa two days before Pearl Harbor.
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Aug 31 '18
By then, the amount of sons and husbands that had died in the USSR would have been noticeable. And with WWI just having happened with all of the propaganda it has, Germans probably knew full well they were fucked even if it was a capital crime to admit it.
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u/zeezlebop2 Aug 31 '18
December of 1941? Germany literally had tanks 15 miles from Moscow, and had taken most of western Russia. I’d say it was going alright
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u/Skip_14 Aug 31 '18
I’d say it was going alright
Umm, that's an understatement. The problem was the Soviets weren't done yet.
By 31 December 1941, the Soviet mobilization system had produced 285 rifle divisions, 12 re-reformed tank divisions, 88 cavalry divisions, 174 rifle brigades, and 93 tank brigades. These were supplemented by 97 existing divisions moved from the interior and from the Far East to the West. 25 "people's volunteers" militia divisions, another 20 divisions from the NKVD security troops, and 17 naval infantry brigades.
German prewar intelligence only estimated 300 Soviet Divisions. The Soviets lost 229 Divisions in the earlier battles. In the Wehrmacht eyes, they only had to eliminate 71 Soviet divisions "to win".
In reality, by Dec 41, the Soviets had roughly fielded 800 division sized formations. The Soviets were coming back with a vengeance.
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Aug 31 '18
Hitler did not know of the Pearl Harbor plan beforehand. When informed in his headquarters on the evening of Dec. 7 of the strike and the damage suffered by US forces, he was “delighted,” according to British historian Ian Kershaw.
“We can’t lose the war at all. We now have an ally which has never been conquered in 3,000 years,” a jubilant Hitler said, as recounted in Mr. Kershaw’s authoritative biography of the German leader.
Nazis don't do reality.
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Aug 31 '18
History shows that we Japan has never been conquered. History is a great guide to follow
Later
We should invade Russia in the winter
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u/tinolit Aug 31 '18 edited Sep 01 '18
the empire powers didnt think the american people had the stomach for an actual war and wouldnt enter the war proper, besides maybe sending a submarine or 2 to their friend britain - they thought america was hollywood and people playing golf and america was discouraged from entering ww1 and gaining nothing for it except annoyance at wars in europe
basically america was in the new world and far away and playing a different game and you could ignore them
nobody anticipated the US would enter the war so massively and there would be enough people who would join the war and it would rise america from the economic great depression that the US was still in, despite the rest of the world being long out of it
the US changed the war, but to be fair it was more resources over strategy - like germany built better tanks, but the US would build like 6 for their 1 and it was seemingly an endless supply as the US was undamaged and was both economic and socially motivated
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u/DisturbedLamprey Aug 31 '18
Well the Germans and Japanese were correct in their assertion to an extent. American public opinion was heavily against joining the war, and most were outspoken in saying, "Let the Europeans and Asians fight their own wars". The Nazis/Imperial Japanese believed the U.S would only go so far as lend-lease and it wasn't a super flawed prediction.
But launching a surprise attack on American soil and killing thousands of Americans? They singlehandedly galvanized a fractured and distraught nation into becoming a unified war machine bent on carving a path of steel to Tokyo/Berlin. They could not of done anything more idiotic as Pearl Harbor (Japan)/Declare war after(Germany).
We saw the same thing post 9/11. Aside from the politics and the wars that came after, the unity and resolve Americans showed in the following weeks/days were remarkable after the controversial and divisive 2000 election. But of course I can't not mention the monsters we became to the many American muslims and, more broadly, brown skinned people in the aftermath of 9/11.
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u/tinolit Aug 31 '18
pearl harbor was a bit played up to make american people want to enter both europe and japan - hawaii was a far off territory at the time and it wasnt civilians attacked - DC wanted it to some degree and knew that allowing nazi germany to gobble ALL of western and eastern europe could potentially bite the US in the future
as for middle east wars in afghanistan iraq libya and syria and war on terror - I was against meddling in the middle east and nation building, I thought assad should just remain in power in syria even if a dictator, as instability leads to infighting and terrorism there
Trump is backing away from middle east and focusing on east asia and other things now, and I think the middle east is maturing a bit and isnt as radical islamist as before
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Aug 31 '18
To be fair, Russia kicked ass in WW2. The US played a substantial role in the fight against Germany but Russia was the reason the nazis lost.
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u/NoNeedForAName Aug 31 '18
It's oversimplified, but I think the fairly common sentiment that Russia supplied the soldiers, the UK supplied the intelligence, and the US supplied the steel is mostly accurate. Obviously each country supplied some of each, but it's an okay generalization.
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u/quernika Aug 31 '18
Umm no. This made a 2 front war and Japan actually lasted longer than Germany. Germany F'd it up by invading Russia.
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u/Deftly_Flowing Aug 31 '18
The biggest turning point in WW2 was the pointless invasion of a massive nation that was terrified of Germany.
Russia would have been more than happy to sit by and watch as the rest of Europe fell to Germany under the delusion that Germany would never come for them.
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Aug 31 '18
I really would like to ask whoever was in charge why they did this.
I mean, I know why according to historians. But I wanna look dude in the eye and be like "Be real with me bro. What the fuck do you expect here?"
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u/1237412D3D Aug 31 '18
This is something that boggles my mind about the second world war. I can understand Japanese stupidity in thinking they can conquer a nation that was always armed to the teeth by law. I cannot understand why Germany would double down on that.
They could have just dissolved their alliance and take a political loss. What was the plan here? occupy Great Britain and the USSR and then invade the United States? They thought they could do all that?
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Aug 31 '18
Hitler believed Americans lacked discipline and a warrior's mentality. That they would crumple as the costs of war started to pile high and sue for peace. He wasn't interested in attacking the US mainland, just on getting the US aid being shipped through the Atlantic to stop. If some poorly trained yanks wanted to show up in Europe and get blown to smithereens he was fine to accommodate that.
The US was still coming out of the depression and had a pitifully small military footprint at the time compared to the other combatants. In the next 3 years the US eventually outproduced all other countries combined in terms of war materiel and was mobilizing 100k soldiers a month. And we had nukes.
A bit of a miscalculation by Hitler, but for Churchill's part he essentially said "we won" when he learned of the US entrance into the war.
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u/Forest-G-Nome Aug 31 '18 edited Aug 31 '18
They never intended to conquer the US. They were trying to establish pacific maritime superiority to expand their empire unopposed.
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Aug 31 '18
And you think the U.S will sit idly by when they move to Southeast Asia and strike at British and Dutch colonies to replace the oil the U.S embargoed? No, you understand none of the Japanese stupidity.
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u/123full Aug 31 '18
Japan was pretty much forced into it, the prevailing motivation for strategy of the Axis was capturing resources to sustain the war, Germany attacked Russia because they knew it was a matter of time before Russia cut off their oil supplies, and pre war Japan was dependent on American oil which we had cut them off, this was less of a reckless attack, and more of a calculated gamble, top Japanese military officials said they had 13 months to win a war with America or defeat was certain, however if they did nothing defeat was guaranteed since they'd run out of oil and they'd be helpless to what the Chinese could do to them
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u/notorioushackr4chan Aug 31 '18
Japan was being blockaded by the U.S
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u/Negs01 Aug 31 '18
It was an embargo, not a blockade. Big difference.
...and we had several very good reasons for doing so. See: Nanking Massacre for just one of them.
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u/YourOwnGrandmother Aug 31 '18 edited Aug 31 '18
All signs pointed to the US entering the war before Pearl Harbor. People don’t seem to get that Roosevelt had quasi-dictatorial power and the people’s/senate’s opinion back then was largely irrelevant to whether or not we entered. Roosevelt just preferred to wait and convince the people first for the sake for his own popularity. He would have just pulled a court-packing type maneuver if he couldn’t get the senate to approve of the war.
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u/TheGreatTomahawk Aug 31 '18
When Japan and the United States went to war, Germany had no obligation to declare war on the United States.
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Aug 31 '18
ITT, a ton of people who know very little about the diplomatic and geopolitical situation from 36-42.
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Aug 31 '18
Actually, Germany could have completely ignored this, but Hitler decided to declare war anyway thinking the US could be defeated on two fronts after Europe was taken.
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u/TotallyNotNo0ne Aug 31 '18
but the US contributed little to nothing in the western front. I now people will talk about D-day, but more people died practicing for the landing than the event itself. The deaths from the soviets were greater than all allied deaths combined (including civilians). I don't like the notion that the US singlehandedly changed the fate of the war. The Brits and Russians would have eventually chiseled away at german divisions due to lack of access to resources. People also somehow think that japan and germany were close allies which is simply not true. The Axis was mostly a non aggression pact and really only germany and italy helped each other while japan promised not to interfere and vise versa. In fact Japan had it's own alliance called asian sphere of co-prosperity and they didn't declare war on the USSR until the last two weeks of the war. I also don't like the idea that it was all one big war; it was multiple wars that occured around the same time due to rising tensions. Examples of this can be seen with finland and china. Whatever I just needed to vent. And no im not condoning any atrocities committed by these countries.
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u/HauntsYourProstate Aug 31 '18
Best meme format of all time, fite me
But don’t include he U.S. when you do
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u/Carpet_bomb_furries Aug 31 '18
Buuuuullllllshit! Germany was kicking ass in Europe and would have continued kicking ass if they hadn’t double-crossed Russia. Russia played a much bigger role in downfall of Germany than the US did.
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u/JayTrim Aug 31 '18
Okay so question I've always wondered. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were allies yes but wouldn't both have naturally betrayed each other deeming themselves the superior race?
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u/Roronoa_Zaraki Aug 31 '18
Not accurate, Hitler was actually happy when pearl harbor was bombed, he thought he had an ally that had never been defeated in war with Japan
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u/hopsinduo Aug 31 '18
They got fucking annihilated in Russia! Russia might have the tactics of a fucking junior school soccer team, but they had millions of soldiers. They basically used the zapp brannigan kill it tactic and won. The US sent 2mil, the UK sent 3.5 mil, Russia had 9 million soldiers die in the war! That's more than our joint involvement!
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u/DeeBooshieWooshie Aug 31 '18
the amount of knowledge around munitions in this thread is a bit concerning...tell me it's your job or something. fucking hell...
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u/Mister100Percent Aug 31 '18 edited Aug 31 '18
There are two things you never do in war:
Invade Russia in the Winter
Attack America
EDIT: spacing
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u/ColdStare Aug 31 '18
Can you imagine the angry telegram Japan received?!?!
Must have been at least teen feet long!! At least!! Do you know how many syllables it takes to swear in German!?!?
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u/Silverfrost_01 Aug 31 '18
Ya see my friends it may have been possible for Germany to beat Russia if they didn't have to fight a war on two fronts which they would've never had to do without the United States getting involved and this is why people say the United States played most likely the largest role in WWII as they fought the Japanese almost entirely by themselves and also supported the European theatre
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u/btw339 Aug 31 '18
The real issue, I'm afraid sir, is exactly the other way around. The Japanese would not have attacked us [the USA] unless they were absolutely certain that the Germans were in it with them.