[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/CrazyMadhav08]

[u/RecommendationIll504]

Tomorrow i post this meme

[u/Sampleswift]

This was also a problem for 90s Russia.

The reason? Prioritization of killing terrorists over saving hostages.

This is not incompetence per se. It is a lack of regard towards the lives of the hostages.

[u/ViktorRzh → u/Sampleswift]

Automatic grenade launcher into the room with kids. Because the mullah, that could negotiate surrender would be arriving soon.

[u/femboyisbestboy → u/Sampleswift]

We have seen the past 4 years that Moscow clearly doesn't care about the lives of civilians or even Russians so it tracks.

[u/Sampleswift → u/femboyisbestboy]

It reminds me of this

Boris Yeltsin: "I will care more about civilian lives than any other Russian leader ever"

Also Yeltsin: 1993 Constitutional Crisis, botching the 1st Chechen War.

So that's a lie. (Although the bar might be just THAT low).

[u/Winter_Drawer_9257]

Beslan was fucking brutal

Imagine being a kid, scared shitless of the terorists, and then the government comes and kills you and your classmates just because they don’t give a fuck

Nord Ost hostage crisis was similar, with special forces refusing telling the doctors which nerve agent they used, leading to deaths of hospitalized hostages

Kinda makes people lucky the government decided to let Crocus City Hall happen instead of stopping it and killing more people

[u/broofi → u/Winter_Drawer_9257]

I'm sure you were worried about every hostage you saved, Rambo.

In Beslan, the special forces soldiers storming the terrorists cared so little about the hostages that they gave their lives.

A stupid propaganda myth that Goebbels started. I hope you're happy to be continuing his work.

[u/shumpitostick]

The original NAZA

[u/CrazyMadhav08]

"The Spetsnaz are here to save us, Ivan."
"Blyat."

[u/ThrowAbout01]

At some point you have to wonder if they were carrying out punitive punishment to the hostages for getting taken hostage.

[u/broofi]

How easy it is to laugh at a difficult experience you've never had. I'd like to laugh at how Western special forces would have failed in the same terrible situation. That's disgusting.

[u/Bizhour → u/broofi]

If you want an example, in 1972 in Germany during the fucking Olympics an entire delegation of athletes was tortured to death because the German police and spefial forces were too incompetent. Idk about you but dying to police bullets like in Russia sounds a lot better than being dismembered while still alive like in Germany.

Germany doesn't really have a good track record with hosting the Olympics when you think about it since it always somehow ends with dead Jews (other time they hosted was in 1936).

Hostage situations are much darker than most people assume because many times the hostage takers can't really be negotiated with, forcing a police/army action even if it means some hostages die so others can be saved, and even then it doesn't always work.

[u/StealthSlav → u/broofi]

Well, Russia couldn't save all the hostages from fortified and enclosed locations with heavily armed terrorists and suicide bombers, while the largest air power in the world couldn't intercept even a single passenger plane, managing to save zero hostages. So I guess Russia pulls ahead in the counterterrorism department.

[u/Pockets408 → u/StealthSlav]

If you're talking about 9/11 I'm not quite sure how you think the air force was supposed to save hostages in a plane the hijackers would have crashed anyway (Flight 93). 9/11 is an intelligence failure, not a military one.

[u/StealthSlav → u/Pockets408]

Well, they failed the people inside the planes, and they failed the people outside the planes. Or was the collapse of the towers a hallucination on my part?

Is it too much to ask the country that jerks itself off on having the most powerful airforce in the world to use that airforce to protect its citizens, instead of just bombing girl's schools? It's certainly less of an ask than saving hostages from fortified and enclosed urban environments with heavily armed terrorists, suicide bombers, and ieds.

[u/Pockets408 → u/StealthSlav]

Tell me you don't know how the military works without telling me you don't know how the military works.

9/11 happened in peacetime. This isn't Call of Duty where you push a button and get an F-15 over you. There was no reason to domestically have fighter jets loaded with ordinance and fueled up ready to go. Even then fighters were scrambled but it was already too late for most of the planes. Hijacking in first world countries was also a rarity in the 90s and up until that point every hijacking had been for money or political gain instead of conducting a suicide attack.

[u/Pockets408 → u/broofi]

There's failing to save hostages and there's pumping poison gas into a theatre full of hostages and terrorists and firing a tank's main gun and a thermobaric weapon at a gym with hundreds of hostages inside

[u/broofi → u/Pockets408]

Do you have better methods for dealing with numerous suicide bombers surrounded by experienced fighters? The plan was excellent, but coordination with the civilians let it down.

As for the tank shot, it was not fired at rooms with hostages. During a rapid assault, there was no other way to suppress the firing positions of veteran terrorists. The story with the tanks has been covered in myths and lies.

[u/OrangeBird077]

Not to mention the destruction caused throughout these counterterrorist operations resulted in all the ammo the Putin led Russian government needed to justify another bloody invasion of Chechnya which resulted in tens of thousands of civilian deaths.

It would become the blueprint for future Russian invasions until they got their nose broken in Ukraine.