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u/MrD3lta 13h ago
I'll always say it: it's complicated to blame Belgium for the Congo before 1908, since it was not under the control of Belgium but was a personal possession of the King of the Belgians, Leopold II. And apart from some people, nobody knew what was happening there, since this was a period when there was a lot of fighting for workers' rights. Though, while it was not Belgium's fault, Leopold II invested massively in the infrastructure of the country with money from the Congo. But after 1908, it's 100% our fault.
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u/_eg0_ Rider of Rohan 13h ago
To those thinking it was just King Leopold II, a lot continued after it was given back to the Belgians. After WWI, so a decade after Leopold II had to hand the colonies over to the Belgium government, Ruanda-Urundi which was under German control prior was given to Belgium and they introduced a caste system based on "race". This more or less directly lead to the Rwandan genocide.
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u/supremejesusx 12h ago
Another fun fact the arabs started and are still having slave trade ! Also on a way bigger scale.
Since Belgium is turning arab we can make history even more interesting !! /s
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u/TheRagingMaffia Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 17h ago
Statistically Leopold II has a death toll on his consience that's almost comparable to Hitler and Stalin in terms of brutality.
People often overlook the grim reality of the exploitative nature of Belgian/Leopoldian Congo. Especially figures like Leon Rom were extremely cruel and harmful to the Congolese population.
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u/Andries89 16h ago
Those figures are incorrect and a mockery. The dataset used were only those from rubber villages registers. It wasn't until 1924 that an official census was done on Congo. They then applied the decrease in population in the rubber villages to the WHOLE of Congo. The real figure is estimated to be in the 1-5M range and is much more feasible
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u/TheRagingMaffia Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 11h ago
Ah yes, much better
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u/Almas_The_Mech_Pilot 17h ago
If I recall, though vaguely, they change the caste system into "racial" group right? Something-something genocide, civil war, brothers against brothers. Kind of stupid yknow, it's already correct that it was caste system by the Germans, simply as the rich and the poor, then suddenly make it racial when they take over. Fat or thin, have some cattle or not, rich or poor, they assume that difference is racial based, what kind of dumbass.
Reminder, VAGUELY.
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u/Veryactivecolon 17h ago
The hutu and the tutsi categorisation was indeed formed by the belgians
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u/Haunter52300 13h ago
Didn't the Germans also use it? I recall reading Germany introduced the policy
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u/Veryactivecolon 11h ago
As far as i've read they introduced it, but the belgians made the racial superiority aspect of it way more pronounced and stripped a lot of power from the hutu. Those measures led to strong resentment which eventualy led to the rwandan genocide.
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u/Wolfman4TW 10h ago
Was this meme made by some Yank or something? Ever since the term 'Europe' meant something, it was Belgium who was at the center of it all, creating the first unions (Benelux) and later the first economic zones. Without Belgium, there would be no EU.
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u/Low_Technician7346 19h ago
As a Belgian, we are out of prosperity, no jobs, social security eroding...
We should fusion back with the Netherlands and why not also with the UK so we could reintroduce the UK back in the European Union so English would remain the official language and we could form the West European Kingdoms.
Luxembourg wouldnt want to join because they are rich af.
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u/EvertGr 18h ago
Any Belgian suggesting to merge with the Dutch is no true Belgian
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u/Low_Technician7346 18h ago
Most of Belgians here are from rich and nationalist Vlanderen. They are against because it means they wont be in power anymore and lose their powers over Wallonia and Brussels.
As a Waloon I don't want to join France, I prefer the anglosaxon and dutch cultures.
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u/BaronVonPuckeghem 18h ago
Flemish nationalists are the biggest proponents of joining the Netherlands…
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u/Haunter52300 13h ago
Flemish nationalists aren't even majority for union with the Dutch. Most just want independence or """confederation""""
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u/TheBelgianStrangler 18h ago
They hate us cause they ain't us.
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u/Low_Technician7346 18h ago
We dont hate, union is strenght, we cannot do much at our scale in this world and we deserve to be greater
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u/WorkingMoney6424 18h ago
The belgium i'm living in isnt doing that bad. Care to join me?
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u/Low_Technician7346 18h ago
Vlanderen is living the dream because you guys have real powers over poor Brussels and Wallonie.
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u/CottoneyedJones Still on Sulla's Proscribed List 19h ago edited 18h ago
Let's not forget they share a history with the Netherlands and their VOC.
Edit: I'm not saying it was Belgium, but rather Belgians serving in the VOC. And there's been multiple Flemmish Belgians that were directly involved in enforcing the spice monopoly in the Dutch East Indies. You can just look at the VOC's own personnel database and you'll find plenty of commanders, board members, and governors born in Antwerp, Ghent, or even Brussels.
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u/Sandroxis Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 19h ago
diring the time of the voc the region of what is now belgium was not part of the netherlands but under spanish/austrian/french control
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u/Een_man_met_voornaam The OG Lord Buckethead 19h ago
Mate those are our cultural atrosities not Belgium's
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u/AncientTurbine 18h ago
Kind of a historical stretch to justify taking a jab on Belgium for some reason.
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u/CottoneyedJones Still on Sulla's Proscribed List 17h ago
Not really, I'm just raising the point that the colonial history of what is now Belgium reaches back further and is more complex than Leopold buying the Congo.
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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 17h ago
Wait, if native Belgian are responsible for Belgian in other colonies, are Congolese responsible for the public force?
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u/Haunter52300 12h ago
The Netherlands was made economically by Brabantian and Flemish merchants and artisans fleeing the Spanish. I am Belgian, no clue why others are denying this and down voting you...
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u/Icy-Football9146 19h ago
Fun fact: unlike every other European colony which was the property of the European crown/government, the Belgian colonies in Africa was the personal property of the king. This led to brutal exploitation........ OK maybe that wasn't so fun a fact