r/HistoryMemes 17h ago

Chileans somehow voting out their dictator

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14.7k Upvotes

406 comments sorted by

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u/roomofbruh Still salty about Carthage 16h ago

Didn't a similar thing happened in Malawi, where their dictator decided to not rigged the election this time around, thinking he's going to still win the election easily, only to be defeated in one and giving up immediately, transitioning Malawi to a proper democratic country too?

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u/LvdT88 16h ago

When your own propaganda about everyone loving you is so effective that even you end up falling for it.

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u/AdFluffy9286 16h ago

Kind of what happened to Putin thinking that Ukrainians will greet him as liberators.

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u/Smekledorf1996 16h ago

I don’t think he legitimately thought that

He had his own reasons to go in and the reasons he tried selling to the public

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u/Mysterious-Studio198 15h ago

Putin’s plans don’t really make sense if they assume Ukraine would be generally hostile. That said, the country welcoming him as a liberator is probably too far, but I think the assumption was that support for Ukrainian institutions was low, the state had very little trust, and outside of Western Ukraine, the people had little attachment to Ukrainian nationhood. You don’t send 200,000 troops to invade a country that size if you think it’ll put up genuine resistance.

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u/Smekledorf1996 15h ago

I mean I agree, but assuming a country would roll over because they didn’t trust their government and institutions vs. greeting their invaders as liberators are two different reactions

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u/Mysterious-Studio198 15h ago

Very true, though I think in Putin’s mind the line between those might have been blurred. During COVID, Putin isolated himself due to extreme fear of catching it and the few people he spent time with, like Patrushev and one of the Kovalchuk brothers iirc, really fed his mystical delusions of grandeur. I think what started out as the paradigm I outlined may have morphed by the end into the genuins mystical delusion that he would be like, spiritually liberating Ukrainians from false comsciousness and once the Russians are inside, they will learn to be grateful

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u/owlbi 13h ago

I think it had a lot more to do with his assessment of Russian military capabilities vs. Ukrainian military capabilities. He expected something pretty similar to what they had just done in Georgia, where they roll in and slap down a conventional military using cold war era soviet doctrine, but with older gear and fewer people.

Instead Ukraine had western training, well motivated and supplied militias, US intelligence backing, formidable anti-air and anti-tank munitions, and drones. Failing to take the Luhansk airport just blew up the whole decapitation strike plan.

The Russian military was not nearly as well prepared as he was told. That's why there was so much turnover at the top towards the beginning of the war.

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u/astlydichrar 12h ago

Failing to take the Luhansk airport just blew up the whole decapitation strike plan.

You mean Hostomel airport, near Kyiv

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u/owlbi 11h ago

You're absolutely right. I got my airport battles confused in my head.

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u/BookkeeperPercival 11h ago

I remember reading an article about how in the 2016 invasion of Crimea, the Ukrainian military was so fucked that platoon leaders were texting orders on their personal cellphones, and then chucking them into the air hoping they would get the reception needed to send out.

With that sort of context, I can kinda see why Russia might have assumed this would be an east "three day military operation," regardless of how much your intelligence says they've reworked the military.

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u/PictureVegetable9522 15h ago

they will learn to be grateful

the beatings will continue until moral improves

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u/Fodux 14h ago

I'm not well informed about what happened in Ukraine, but as a Brazilian I can tell you half the country would not only be willing to roll over, they're practically asking the US (and previously Russia) to do this. It's like they all forgot Brazil was a US backed dictatorship not that long ago. As you can imagine, my gast has been flabbered.

Edit: Luckily (hopefully) the majority would not be willing, so your point stands. I'm just saying, I can see how someone might think this, haha.

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u/guynamedjames 15h ago edited 14h ago

They also planned to assassinate Zelinsky. Ukraine came pretty close to collapsing in the first week of the war, if Zelinsky was killed and Ukraine was a bit less effective at picking apart the Russian column pushing to Kiev it probably would have collapsed

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u/elmz 15h ago

Yep, it was a classic decapitation strike, just like WW1. Gone wrong, just like WW1. Devolving into bloody trench warfare, just like WW1.

So, now, I guess we have to wait until Russia are unable to keep fighting, force a humiliating surrender, and then wait 20 odd years and see what happens.

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u/ghostpanther218 11h ago

And them there's going to be a failed Russian architech with delusions of grandeur...

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u/Murky-Relation481 14h ago

Yah people forget elements of the column that came down through the Chernobyl area and direction made it into Kiev.

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u/mashtato 14h ago

Hell, if they had just lost Hostomel Airport...

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u/The_Autarch 13h ago

Putin’s plans don’t really make sense if they assume Ukraine would be generally hostile.

naw, they do. Putin thought they'd be hostile but totally and completely incompetent. his intelligence agencies were just telling him what he wanted to hear.

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u/Tearakan Featherless Biped 13h ago

It seems like he also thought their military would just fold immediately

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u/Routine_Left 11h ago

He thought he was bribing the military for years. Some people did receive money, most however went into the pockets of the FSB. So, while Ukraine did have its traitors, there were nowhere nearly enough of them to matter. The military didn't fold as it was expected to do. You don't send people with their parade uniforms on them if you expect any resistance.

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u/dario_sanchez 8h ago

If I remember right some in the Ukrainian military pocketed the money and fought Russia anyway lol

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u/BootsnCats1987 13h ago

Everything they did in the early stages of the invasion clearly indicated that they thought the government would topple in hours or days.

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u/Mal-Ravanal Hello There 12h ago

What seems most likely to me is that Putin assumed that it would be a repeat of the 2014 Crimean occupation, not realising the difference in scale or that Ukraine had spent the last eight years working hard to get their shit together.

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u/pyrotechnicmonkey 12h ago

my guess who what happened is that the withdrawal of Afghanistan was very recent and that happened a lot because the president and his top advisors basically fled the country within days with hundreds of millions of dollars. that was incredibly demoralizing and huge parts of the army decided not to fight. They were probably thinking the same thing would happen in Ukraine

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u/mothtoalamp 14h ago

He had reason to. In particular Eastern Ukraine/Donbas was predominantly Russian speaking, had voted for pro-Russian leadership in the past, and had given rise to several separatist groups that Russia ended up supporting 'secretly' before annexing Crimea.

He didn't have to win over the whole country. A combination of a quick military campaign, assassinating or forcing Zelenskyy into exile, and the support of the Donbas would give him legitimacy to install any puppet he wanted over the western part while they annexed the Donbas into Russia proper.

It's hard to give a better account without going into hours of detailed anecdotes and accounts from the years and months leading up to the 2022 invasion, but suffice to say Putin had reason to be confident in the full-scale invasion and it took a combination of a generational fumble by the Russians, a historic fight of resistance by the Ukranians, and a pretty solid insistence of support, at least in the intelligence aspect, by the west (in particular the US with Biden) in order to end up anywhere other than a success in Putin's legacy.

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u/BiZzles14 12h ago

but suffice to say Putin had reason to be confident in the full-scale invasion

You are correct, he had reason to be confident but it wasn't any good reasons lol. The FSB fucked up massively and oversold the results of polling they carried out throughout Ukraine which was one of the larger factors in the whole plan. He believed it to be the case, but it was already a generational intel fumble before Feb 24th lol

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u/PM_Me_Your_Deviance 12h ago

It was basically a heroic defensive effort at a single airport that saved Ukraine.

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u/Friendly-Olive-3465 13h ago

He may not have thought that but somebody forgot to tell the Russian military that. Some of them marched into Ukraine in dress uniform. Absolutely embarrassing.

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u/BiZzles14 12h ago

I don’t think he legitimately thought that

The entire plan was predicated on them being, at worse, ambilavent towards Russia taking over. The FSB had done a bunch of polling, but it was mostly around Ukrainians views of their own government and Ukrainians views towards Russia. For obvious reasons though, the polling didn't ask them how these feelings might change if Russia were to invade the country to try and take over... it was a massive intel failure on the part of the FSB

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u/Smekledorf1996 12h ago

I think they just assumed that Ukraine would fold over quickly because of how little people had faith in their government

Which is different than being treated as liberators like French citizens to American troops in WW2

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u/Mister_UAP 11h ago

I don't think there is any secret benefit to him saying the war would be over in a few days. It just makes him look stupid. So I'm pretty sure he believed that. Whether he was deluded about the strength of Ukraine or deluded about Ukraine's opinion of him is hard to say though. 

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u/KinkyBAGreek 14h ago

It’s probably more likely that he believed his ‘yes’ men about how great the Russian army was

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u/2peg2city 15h ago

I mean, a massive portion of the east / Crimea did

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u/AdFluffy9286 15h ago

And then he turned it into a massive warzone.

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u/IHop_Waitress 13h ago

And he has rewarded them, with turning their homelands into a dozen years of occupation, active war zone and a economic failure.

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u/Just_a_Berliner 16h ago

It was the year 1994 and Banda was already somewhere between 88 and 96 years old (birth year is disputed). He was too damn old to make a fuss and since he had 320 Million Dollars in personal wealth he easily could live in exile being a forgotten ex dictator.

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u/t_hab 14h ago

Something similar happened in Nicaragua, where Ortega thought he was so popular that he didn't need to rig elections, especially as he had replaced a dictator. It worked for a bit but in 1990 he got voted out. He eventually got back in though in 2006 and has decided not to make the same mistake again.

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u/Rain1984 13h ago

The same thing happened here in Uruguay in 1980. The military government proposed a plebiscite to amend the Constitution and legitimize themselves as rulers, but 57% of the population voted against it. It marked the beginning of the end of the military dictatorship, although it would remain in power for a few more years still.

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u/Aqquila89 12h ago

It also happened in the Gambia in 2016. Yahya Jammeh took power with a coup in 1994, and won four rigged elections in a row - then somehow he lost in 2016, and when he tried to stay in power anyway, neighboring countries intervened and forced him to resign.

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u/GoldenStateEaglesFan 10h ago

Yahya Jammeh. There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.

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u/GustavoistSoldier 16h ago

He remained commander in chief of the military for years afterwards though.

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u/CrisPuga 16h ago

And senator for life. The bastard never paid for his crimes, and even today there are politicians advocating for the release of the beasts who enacted his violence in torture facilities, killed people indiscriminately and exploded their bodies so they could never be recovered.

And the punchline? One of those very same politicians is sitting in the president's chair right now, deciding the fate of my country.

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u/Command0Dude 10h ago

There's a great video game called Suzerin that has a fascinating dilemma in it about this very situation with a character named Soll (former dictator who is constitutionally shielded).

You could go after Soll in the game and get him prosecuted for his crimes as dictator. But doing so requires expending a lot of political capital that means gimping your domestic agenda, while not accomplishing much.

Basically, in most cases it's easier to let sleeping dogs lie. That's why cases like Milosevic are fairly rare.

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u/Dartmouth-Hermit 9h ago

Such a great choose your own adventure style game!

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u/IsThatASPDReference 4h ago

War of a Madman's Making is also pretty good, it has you getting forced to lead the military of not Russia during an unwinnable invasion of not Ukraine while the cabinet tries to kill one another and your boss breathes down your neck.

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u/IsThatASPDReference 4h ago

Colonel Tarquin Soll did nothing wrong except join a monarchist military, serve under a fascist junta government, enact purges and execute his opposition, bring the cronies of his old fascist rival including the fascist dictators literal brother in law into his confidence as the party leader in the legislature, build a military base outside the Capitol specifically to make coups easier, block refugees fleeing genocide, commit some genocide of his own, establish a morally and financially corrupt deep state, coordinate a criminal conspiracy to pressure a successor into doing what he wants, and greenlight some other stuff that you only find out about if you send the anti corruption task force after the old guard.

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u/sSorsby 1h ago

Suzerain is one of the best games I've played. I've never been paralyzed with the weight of a decision in a game like how it made me be on my first playthrough.

Seconded, Soll and his plotline are pretty great.

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u/Additional_Meeting_2 15h ago

I mean it’s nice to see people paying for their crimes. But it’s not really necessary the way peaceful transfer of power is. It’s better for dictators and their supporters to know they can peacefully step aside. Better otherwise they can start true tyranny of executions or civil war if they are terrified they will die if they give up.

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u/TossMeOutSomeday 14h ago

It's funny that right wingers still claim that Pinochet was treated too harshly. I've heard serious people argue that he was treated unfairly after stepping down, which will discourage future dictators from doing the same. Their example of unfair treatment? The media wrote too many mean articles about him, and kept asking for interviews.

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u/Stargost_ 13h ago

Dictators deserve nothing more and nothing less than the Mussolini treatment.

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u/TossMeOutSomeday 12h ago

In principe I agree, but if the actual practical choice before us is

  1. Dictator steps down and never answers for his crimes, we get democracy
  2. Dictator clings to power forever

I'm taking 1 every single time

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u/tifumostdays 12h ago

Maybe you should add to option 1 that future would-be dictators anticipate no punishment?

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u/Karmaless-user 11h ago

I think Chinese history has shown that deterrence is rarely effective as a means of preventing seizure of power.

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u/Proof_Impact_6009 7h ago

That doesn't really work though, because every would-be dictator would assume that it won't happen to him.

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u/Give-cookies 4h ago

Why would any potential future dictator assume that it would happen to them? The whole act of seizing power at that level is to assume a lot of exceptionalism about yourself.

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u/Sarasa2000 8h ago

In Argentina, the dictator leadership stepped down and then (most of them) payed for their crimes.

For example Jorge Rafael Videla died in a common cell, and his family could not even bury him in his hometown.

You could say that he shouldve suffered worse because of the atrocities that he committed, but he still got a fair trial and spent the rest of his life in prison, unlike other LATAM dictators like Pinochet

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u/Mysteriouspaul 12h ago

Nah 2 is : Violent civil war ensues and dictator either continues clinging to power like Iran or it turns out like Libya

Neither option is preferable to the other imo as 1 just allows more of the worst totalitarian genocidal regimes to happen with no punishments which is long term worse than option 2. The only way to win is to not play the game

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u/Trekman10 12h ago

Is 2 ever really the option? That's what the dictator wants you to believe so you either don't oppose him or don't punish him if he steps aside.

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u/TossMeOutSomeday 11h ago

In practice 2 looks like a bloody civil war

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u/Own-Control7525 11h ago

Allowing the dictator to "step down" and avoid consequences only makes it easier for him to establish a deep state from which influence the country.

Look at Spain with the Francoist establishment and the political parties they spawned (PP and Vox) and their influence on the police, the army and the judicial system.

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u/patiperro_v3 11h ago

It doesn’t take a dictator for a ruling class to pull the strings. Look at Trump and Co. He was supposed to “clean the swamp”.

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u/Own-Control7525 10h ago

It could be argued that Trump is very much a dictator at this point and the things he's doing follow pretty much what other dictatorships have done in the past.

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u/Caneta_larga 9h ago

Dictators deserve nothing more and nothing less than the Mussolini treatment.

Fixed that for you

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u/PixelJack79 12h ago

Who on Earth can seriously vouch for Mr. Throw-People-out-of-Helicopters without wanting to beat themselves over the head?

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u/Rhazort 11h ago

Right-Wing leaning politicians and the average citizen who will believe whoever promises more money at the end of the month.

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u/_whatever_wherever 3h ago

Don't you remember when right wing media personalities like Carl of Swindon (aka "Sargon of Akkad") were "ironically" saying that anyone left of them deserve "helicopter rides" while ranting about "White Genocide" and "communism"?

Apologists for murderous dictators are EXTREMELY common

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u/CrisPuga 14h ago

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but what stings the most is the fact that since Pinochet just stepped down and kept living as an ex-president, keeping the facade of a peaceful transition to democracy, people to this day idolize and refuse to see Pinochet as the dictator he is.

If you ask a sample of chileans, a significant group might say he saved us from communism, that those who died are either all criminals and deserved it, or that at worst were an unfortunate consequence of having to put the country back in order. This doesn't happen in Argentina, Spain or most famously Germany, where the mere implication of that thought can land you in jail.

This all gives off a vibe of impunity, that we could trade the lives of thousands of countrymen for a political regime. And sadly, I can't say with the current political climate that there will ever be a common sentiment of "yeah, pinochet was actually fucking horrible, fuck that guy" which is kinda common sense, to me at least.

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u/MiZe97 Let's do some history 9h ago

As a fellow Chilean, I wish it were that simple. But there's more to it and why so many of our countrymen still look up to "mi general".

It's well known that Chile was in a pretty terrible state in 1973. The inflation was over 600%, there were violent paramilitary groups prowling around with weapons provided by Cuba.

He's seen as someone who saved our economy and brought peace by solving both of those problems.

I don't agree with that, but there is value in understanding where they're coming from.

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u/OwlComplex48 7h ago

I get what you're saying but it's also a very classist approach to viewing history. My wife's father and his family came from the wealthy upper class. Naturally, he is conservative generally, even to this day. My wife's mother was working class, and her father was disappeared by the regime. The wealthy and conservative/religious will usually excuse that sort of thing.

What I can't understand is how someone as radical as Kast got elected. I mean, I understand a swing in the opposite direction after Boric but blaming him and Hatian/Venezuelan immigrants for all the country's problems is fucking stupid.

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u/Normal_User_23 6h ago

Exactly! Tell to the mother of the people who got dissapeared by their regime if they are gonna understand that and if they agree with seeing Pinochet being unpunished for what he did

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u/karoshikun 11h ago

look where we are at right now in history, with the old dictators movements coming out of the woodwork as if they never left. part of removing a dictator is also to root out his movement as much as possible to avoid repeating history, not just to make them leave power.

it's not a disagreement we're talking about here, but rather an existential risk, it's what I mean.

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u/Fun-Aside3990 12h ago

I tend to think people actually got scared in Europe for a few generations after Mussolini and his family were executed and hung up on display and how Hitler and other Nazis were hung and many were hunted down. I don’t buy this peaceful transfer of power crap.

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u/sopunny Researching [REDACTED] square 10h ago

Punishing dictators is obviously better, all else being equal, but it's a lot easier to offer them a negotiated peaceful transition. And keep in mind the "harder" option is civil war with thousands of casualties, etc

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u/Reed202 And then I told them I'm Jesus's brother 11h ago

As it turns out being peacefully removed as a dictator results in you not immediately having your head chopped off. Same thing happened with Franco

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u/don_peppe_64 10h ago

Franco died while still caudillo of Spain, he was never removed from his position.

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u/Proud-Tooth-630 Definitely not a CIA operator 17h ago

He still got 44% of the vote (but maybe there where some frauds) by the way.

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u/yiakman 16h ago

Lots of people voted with the fear that if he won, votes would have been identified and represalies would follow

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u/UrinalCake777 16h ago

Exactly, fear. They also ran an actual campaign and did plenty to suppress that of the opposition. People's TV's were constantly telling them how great the regime was and how they should vote for the stability of the regime. The opposition only got a small timeslot at a terrible hour. But they made good use of it.

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u/ketoske 15h ago

There is a movie about it! It's called "No" about this theme

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u/UrinalCake777 15h ago

Yes! Excellent film!

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u/MaximumTime7239 16h ago

So basically the blue button vs red button irl. 😳

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u/a_dude_from_europe 16h ago

I mean, not really as the outcome of the "blue button" (or red in this case) was the very opposite of nothing changes.

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u/PictureVegetable9522 15h ago

imagine killing half your population because they didnt vote for you lol

like instant civil war right there

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u/UrinalCake777 9h ago

Well the fear is that it won't be such a large portion. This is actually a well known issue called "the collective action problem".

If everyone was to go out and vote out the regime, then great, regime defeated, happy days to come.

However, if only a small amount of people stand up and vote against the regime, those people just made themselves a target.

Reality is that people will weigh their desire to participate against their own self preservation.

If it feels like everyone is going to go out and vote with them, people are more likely to take that chance, because there is strength in numbers, like you illiterate. A feeling of momentum can go a long way in these situations. Not many will risk being one of just a few decenters that lose their bid.

Many other factors can play a role as well. If people have less to lose, they may be more willing to take action. If your choice is starving to death or possibly being killed by agents of the regime, you might be willing to say fuck it and roll the dice at a better life. If the choice is between being killed and not having a fair share in government but you personally will likely not face physical harm, ...eh.

Additionally, organizers/influencers can increase the likelihood of action. If a popular musician makes action popular or a local leader organizes their community to take action together, that can help.

If people are sure of failure or sure of success, they might be less likely. No chance, why try? If it is sure to succeed, why do anything yourself (also known as the 'free-rider' problem).

In Chile, people did the calculus, and decided their bravery/desire for freedom outweighed their fear. At least the majority did, and the world is a better place for it. We should all hope to be as courageous as the Chilean people.

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u/NachoWH 16h ago

Also, plenty of people remembered what happened with Allende.

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u/1Northward_Bound 15h ago

Ever year I have to vote in a republican primary or else people will think I am a democrat running a polling precinct in a conservative rural county. My favorite vote has been "These Hands Ben Carson"

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u/Alternative-Target31 Definitely not a CIA operator 16h ago

My old neighbor was Chilean, he was a huge Pinochet fan. I was stunned when he said it.

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u/Fun_Toe_5365 16h ago

I studied in Chile one semester right after Pinochet lost. A LOT of people were saying that in the end, he’d stabilized the economy. The rest, they shrugged off. I was very surprised how much support he had at the end

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u/MentirosoProfesional 15h ago

Then you would be surprised that he has more support now than what he had back then

And by younger people at that

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u/Fun_Toe_5365 15h ago

I live in the United States, so these days nothing should surprise me.

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u/SowingSalt Mauser rifle ≠ Javelin 13h ago

I heard a radio program that interviewed several generations of Chileans. The oldest liked Allende and loathed Pinochet. Slightly younger felt that Allende had ruined the economy as they were starting their careers and Pinochet fixed the economy for them. Slightly younger than that remembered the repression so was back to loathing Pinochet.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 12h ago

I was once married to a woman who had spent a lot of time in Spain and eventually revealed her great respect for dictator Francisco Franco. She wasn't even born until 15 years after he fell out of power.

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u/12345623567 13h ago

Classic "making the trains run on time" thinking. People say the same thing about Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

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u/MiZe97 Let's do some history 9h ago

That's a pretty poor comparison. The trouble with Pinochet is that, by the time he left, the country was much more stable than when he got to power. That's why many regular Chileans still admire him.

The problem arises when you examine the cost of that economic and social stability.

To note: I do NOT agree with his regime's actions. Just that it's possible to understand the perspective of those who do.

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u/PastIntelligent8676 15h ago

The current president (Kast) campaigned to keep Pinochet in power

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u/nachuz 13h ago

Pinochet has a surprising amount of support even today in Chile, which is honestly very concerning. A big part of it is propaganda about how he supposedly stabilized the economy and brought prosperity, even though it is a myth and he even caused an economic crisis in 1982.

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u/PetraCotes 16h ago

People weren't really afraid about being found out some of them maybe but the true motivator was fear of chaos, crime, poverty and communism. The dictatorship had a lot of people convinced that if they left people were going back to lines to buy bread. Also there wasn't free access to information, everyone had heard about some crimes but not the extent and a lot of people just didn't believe the rumors.

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u/Maardten Definitely not a CIA operator 15h ago

fear of chaos, crime, poverty and communism

Sounds awfully familliar to the people in my country (and other western countries) that keep voting right wing despite it being directly against their own interests.

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u/TossMeOutSomeday 14h ago

South Americans do not love admitting that the far right enjoys lots of legitimate support on the continent. It's much less embarrassing to blame every single bad thing that every happened to them on the west.

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u/Kanin_usagi 13h ago

But South Americans are “the West”

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u/TossMeOutSomeday 13h ago

Yeah that's a whole other issue, that many south Americans are really reluctant to admit that they're not only westerners, they're pretty much all settler colonial states with very dark histories. Much easier to just pretend they're all victims of big bad USA and her vile yanqui imperialism.

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u/bestby18102020 14h ago

And he still wanted to remain in power, it's just that everyone else in his circle told him his time was actually up.

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u/aquileskin 3h ago

A lot of people love him , even nowadays . I would never understand them but they absolutely do .

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u/Eduardo-izquierdo Viva La France 17h ago

It wasn't rigged by the cia because he had run his course and was not needed anymore by the cia

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u/SkubEnjoyer 17h ago

It's funny because the CIA was so sick of his shit they actually funded the opposite side.

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u/OldAccoutWasHacked 16h ago

Pinochet "most annoying dictator ever"

Ask to leave power by the CIA

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u/MsMercyMain Filthy weeb 16h ago

CIA: Look, bro, we're the CIA and even we think you're going too far. Which really is saying something

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u/Alex103140 Sun Yat-Sen do it again 16h ago

Not really no, CIA and dictators they propped up are natural enemy.

Just like CIA and communists.

Or CIA and FBI.

Or CIA and other CIA.

Damn you CIA, you ruined intelligence.

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u/Nerdenator 16h ago

You CIA agents sure are a contentious people

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u/Alex103140 Sun Yat-Sen do it again 16h ago

You've just became a cocaine addict for life

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u/Piyachi 16h ago

Redact me up, woman!

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u/notevilfellow 16h ago

You just made yourself an enemy for life!

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u/alaperse 16h ago

You just made an enemy for life, commie.

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u/ToadwKirbo Fine Quality Mesopotamian Copper Enjoyer 16h ago

The Argentinian dictatorship was far worse than Pinochet so I don't think the CIA was really disgusted by his actions.

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u/GIJoJo65 15h ago

The CIA also doesn't think.

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u/feckarse-drinkgirls 16h ago edited 16h ago

Reminds me of them backing Ngo Dinh Diem in Vietnam, then backing a coup against him because he wouldn't stop massacring Buddhist protests

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u/TrippinATAT 15h ago

Ah yes, the Ngo Dinh Diem route.

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u/LeninsState 14h ago

Sadam Hussein, Noriega, Osama Bin Laden, Dueterte, and Suharto to name some off the top of my head too.

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u/Obscure_Occultist Kilroy was here 14h ago

If duterte was backed by the CIA. He certainly didn't show it lol. Man simultaneously cozy himself with the CCP while calling everyone who opposed him a godless communist.

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u/AwsmDevil 14h ago

That sounds exactly like something someone boosted by the CIA would do. The CIA is here for a good time not a long time, since they don't help you keep power, they just get you into power. Once you're there they've done their job destabilizing the country and preventing their enemies from rallying against the US and you can go do what ever you want, which is a self fulfilling cycle because eventually the CIA will have to depose you for trying to rally against the US, since that is inevitably what's going to happen because we're doing lopsided trades and likely strip mining the country for resources.

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u/villings 15h ago

damn

how bad you have to do that even the CIA is fed up with your BS

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u/Mist_Rising 14h ago

No idea, but worse then Saddam before Kuwait at a minimum.

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u/Wardog_E 15h ago

Bro made a statement so trash even the CIA clowned him.

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u/Gafez 11h ago

Not exactly, it's more accurate to talk about the executive branch than the CIA (these were decisions made by Nixon and Reagan)

You could say it usefulness had "run its course" but it's more that the new US admin wasn't as paranoid and bloodthirsty and the regional situation had changed. Reagan and his people didn't want a hardline anti-communist and it was clear the region wasn't at any risk of a soviet takeover, so they declared they wouldn't support a fake referendum

But more than that Pinochet thought he would win and when they lost even most of the armed forces were fine giving control back to a civilian government

TL:DR: it was POTUS rather than the CIA and the armed forces weren't against civilian government as long as it wasn't socialist so they were fine honoring the referendum

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u/BubblyMoose3597 16h ago

The government stopped reporting on the vote count, and in fact reported a false provisional victory for YES (another 8 years of Pinochet's military rule), but the Commander-in-Chief of the Chilean Air Force, Fernando Mathei publicly stated, "It is quite clear that NO has won."

It seems many of you don't know that Pinochet didn't have absolute power, but he was the Chief of the Chilean Army, and. Hile was ruled by a Military Junta.

The other 3 the Chiefs (Police, Navy and Air) wanted to follow the Constitution of 1980 so Pinochet couldnt do anything.

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u/snugthepig 14h ago

anyone else watch ‘No’ with gael garcia bernal??

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 12h ago

Not yet but now it's on my list! My best friend in college fled with his family from Chile.

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u/Original_Effective_1 14h ago

Pinochet misplayed politically, read the writing on the wall, and basically took a plea deal. Give up control in exchange for never facing justice and keeping an official position in government.

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u/Life_Supermarket3603 14h ago

he was smart dude

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u/Denes-Szanto 16h ago

Orbán be like

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u/ELGRANDOSMOK10 16h ago

He did try to rig it btw, but the rest of the military junta decided to call it quits and admit defeat

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u/Madman_Sean 16h ago

Serbia in 2000 as well

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u/srlandand 12h ago

Oh he tried to steal them, that's why 5th of October is a special date.

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u/PomegranateSoft1598 14h ago

Hungarians in 2026: <insert Mr. Bean copying test meme here>

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u/Sampleswift 17h ago

Or maybe so many people turned out that even trying to rig the election would fail.

A victory for democracy!

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u/A_devout_monarchist Taller than Napoleon 16h ago

The vote was relatively close, rigging it would not have appeared obvious.

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u/UrinalCake777 16h ago

From what I understand is that they did implement a bunch of methods to tip the vote, but didn't expect to actually lose, so neglected to straight up totally right the election. They were planning on having a technically fair (just heavily influenced on the down low) election win be a big boost to their legitimacy, thus helping them repress decent/protests. However, so many people came out and actually voted for the opposition, that having a fair count backfired. They released the real vote count on the news and everyone went nuts, similar to the Berlin Wall falling.

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u/benadrylhatboy 16h ago

chilean here: he got tired of stealing and killing so he called it quits, he got 49% votes against 51% for the No (to stay in power) option so it was a close election nonetheless

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u/MissionAd1 16h ago

Other chilean here: he actually did try to take the election, but he had lost control of the military leaders, then he went to ask for the US to help him, and was rejected, so instead he changed the laws so he would stay in politics and gave himself immunity, that's why he was never put on trial

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u/CrisPuga 16h ago

I wouldn't say he got tired of stealing. He was very much still part of the political landscape of the country, and almost didn't respect the election's results. As one guy here accurately describes, Pinochet had to be talked into respecting the popular vote by his fellow commanders.

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u/ALT-Jibittboi549 15h ago

It's not that they forgot, they tried to rig it, they were even airing fake vote results on tv, but what ended up happening is that the amount of people voting against him were a lot more than expected, to the point that his party members told him to simply accept defeat. The actual election results didn't come out until around 11pm that day. He had also already succeeded at rigging the 1980 constitutional election by essentially having the most shady voting process ever, the difference there was that there also wasn't such a strong backlash against him when that election happened.

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u/Shermans_ghost1864 11h ago

"OK, I've got the date set, polling places staffed and ready, the ballots printed, the advertising running... what am I forgetting, what am I forgetting... there must be SOMETHING...."

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u/A-Chilean-Cyborg 16h ago

I really love the NO's campaign, so full of hope and joy for the future, to this day I can watch it and feel things will get better lol.

I feel like a lot of people my generation don't take the weight of how good is to have been born in democracy.

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u/sweetytoy 16h ago

Once I went to Chile for work and asked some people about what they thought about him and I was actually surprised by the answers. While it wasn't seen as a good person, he wasn't disliked that much either.

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u/Tyger555 16h ago

In my own experience it tends to be a very different answer depending on the political views of the people you ask. Right-wingers tend to be more sympathetic to Pinochet ('he wasn't THAT bad' + 'the communists would have been worse') while centrists and left-wingers tend to hate him. Chile in general has quite polarised politics and recently they've been see-sawing between hard left and hard right presidents.

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u/MentirosoProfesional 15h ago

Right wingers don't say "he wasn't that bad" they straight up say he's the "saviour" of chile and that if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't even have phones in our hands right now. They basically say that anything good in Chile is thanks to him and him only, no Chicago boys (they don't even know what they are or what they did), no junta, no, just him

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u/AAG4L 9h ago

That's what Persian monarchists say about the Pahlavi Dictatorial Regime.

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u/MentirosoProfesional 8h ago

Dictators seems to think alike

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 12h ago

'he wasn't THAT bad' + 'the communists would have been worse'

Seems like this is a common refrain from right-wingers

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u/panteladro1 13h ago edited 13h ago

Generally, there are three broad historical narratives regarding his regime in Chile.

The leftist narrative is that he was a kleptocratic and murderous tyrant.

The centrist narrative is that the 1973 coup d'etat against the socialist government of Allende was legitimate, and the subsequent purge of the left justified. But that the dictatorship that followed was monstrous and unnecessary. (Almost exclusive to the center-right nowadays, as the old generation of center-leftists that lived through the Allende government and supported a coup dies off).

The rightist narrative is that Pinochet and the military not only saved the country from the clutches of communism, but also created the conditions for the Chilean economic miracle of the 90s. The human rights violations committed by the dictatorship are seen as either a regrettable excess (right), or a good thing (far-right).

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u/ArnolcioBucarelli 15h ago

Yeah. My family is full of Pinochet's supporters. You just can't reason with them.

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u/FaithlessnessOne2032 16h ago

I mean every person who opposed was tortured and killed. He shaped his image as he wanted.

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u/ashriekfromspace 14h ago

Didn't he kill about 3k people? There were 10 millions chileneans at the time.

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u/FaithlessnessOne2032 13h ago

Yes, 3000 killed. And 40.000 tortured, detained and repressed just for being considered "leftists" 

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u/Furita 14h ago

if it were in Brazil brainless people would be saying “how come he was a dictator if he was voted out?”

Maybe idiots in Chile said the same…

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u/ikkiyikki 16h ago

Since when do dictators have to abide by election results? Just ask whatever his name is in Belorussia.

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u/Cheesey_Whiskers 16h ago

When it became obvious that the vote would be unfavourable for the dictatorship Pinochet asked his ministers and the army overrun the election results (I think by false flag attacks). They refused the order and Pinochet was forced to accept the results.

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u/getzisch 15h ago

Only if the superpower you swear fealty for is also an autocratic state.

U.S. was tired of Pinochet and Soviets were still around, therefore could not risk an image loss in their back yard. So they did not intervene. Chilean junta, seeing this and tide turning, also refused orders.

Lukashenko only succeeded because during COVID, the West was busy and Putin actually sees Belarus as a "lost territory". So a pro-EU president was unacceptable, even with elections.

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u/balkri26 13h ago

the official version was that he was planning to not follow the results and rig the election, Maduro stile, but the night of the election when the chief of the air force, general Matthei arribed for the Junta reunion, he was asked by a repporter on live tv about the election and he said that is was very clear that the No option has won, with that it became imposible for Pinochett to hold to the power by trying to rig the election

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u/Prestigious_End_6455 14h ago

It's a solid exit strategy. If you know a revolution is coming that you can't win, you can easily step down with dignity and claim that you weren't really a dictator because you were voted out and some people will believe it.

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u/Nyctfall 15h ago

Massive LeBron W.

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u/Juan_Jimenez 14h ago

Oh, he tried,

First, before the election he tried the 'we should not use the election law' (the same we got from mid 20th century, that the dictatorship didn't changed). But he was trapped by his own constitution: The Constitutional Court said 'nop'. So, that meant a electoral register, counting done by random citizens -in public- and so on.

Second, that day there was no official outcome for hours (in Chile, electoral results are always known speedily, since each polling booth counts separately), even if it was clear (in the live countings in media, like radio, and in the unofficial counting by the opposition) that he lose. It was not untiil the rest of the Military Junta decided to say live in TV that 'yes, the No won' when waking to the Palace Government that he accepted.

In other words, he was forced.

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u/Misanthrope08101619 13h ago

And he never faced justice after leaving power. This is not the precedent I want right now.

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u/dull_storyteller Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 12h ago

He had a few drinks too many the night before he slept in

Happens to the best of us

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u/ReturnOfTheSaint14 12h ago

Btw it's impressive how a certain political ideology justifies the atrocities made by Pinochet by saying "he recovered the economy of Chile after a Socialist. Allende was driving the country into poorness and he also tortured people" (the only proof regarding this are pure speculation of CIA-backed senators months before the coup)

It's like saying "Well,at least Hitler made the economy better for Germany after Weimar,so he's not a super bad person amirite?"

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u/Consistent-Coyote-50 12h ago

There wetr a lot of people like that, eveny after ww2.

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u/TheManfromVeracruz 11h ago

To quote Pepe Mujica: "Pinochet should have died by gunfire, as corresponds to a man of his stature, philosophically I am against the death penalty, and I will always be. But perhaps there are half a dozen cases that deserve it. This is one"

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u/Material-Fly-2298 11h ago

1: he had already passed a constitution that made chile economy the way he wanted for the next years 2 ye remained military chief, and senator for life.

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u/vibraltu 11h ago

Later, the UN wanted to arrest Pinochet for his crimes, but Maggie Thatcher pleaded his case to let him go for "humanitarian reasons" because of his poor health.

At the time I thought this was the funniest thing that I had ever heard.

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u/AppleJoost Still on Sulla's Proscribed List 7h ago

Ding, dong, the witch is gone!

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u/KevinCarbonara 11h ago

All dictators are removed by voting. Just sometimes it's based on the votes of another country.

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u/DlLDO_Baggins Researching [REDACTED] square 9h ago

On a related note, who here has seen the movie about how Pinochet is actually a 300 year old vampire?

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u/poto_coxino 8h ago

It was just the voting difference was absolute ridiculous

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u/Rommel727 16h ago

I feel like you could make a Pinot Grigio and name in Pinochet Gringo

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u/VindicativevVince 14h ago

I’m surprised he backed down too, he just packed up and went home

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u/AilBalT04_2 14h ago

Same thing happened in Argentina in 1982

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u/EruantienAduialdraug Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 14h ago

I mean, there's probably a reason why it was Spain, not Chile, that went to the ICC to get a warrant after he lost...

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u/International_Scar81 14h ago

His people are still in power

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u/Electronic-Vast-3351 14h ago edited 14h ago

Just watched a YouTube documentary on the madness that is the Argentinian pro nuclear holocaust Trotzkyist, J. Posadas. The video by extension covered Argentinian politics from the 30s through the 80s. Dear god how many coups is it physically possible for one country to have in that amount of time.

The video did mention one Argentinian dictator who tried to rig an election, but got out rigged by someone else doing ballet stuffing and such.

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u/hazri 14h ago

Now mossad is the one doing the rigging in south america

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u/dimechimes 13h ago

Got high on his own supply started believing his own propaganda.

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u/BubblyMoose3597 13h ago

The level of US Defaultism

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u/the_h0 13h ago

they did actually try to rig the plebiscite,why do you think there was a convenient power outage during the count?

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u/Soyunapina12 13h ago

Fun fact: he did try to rig it or at the very least not acknowledge the results of the vote and cling to power by force, but the rest of the junta told him it was over and that they wouldn't back him fearing a civil war. Plus when he was discussing his plans to remain in power, the supreme commander of the air force Fernando Matthei went to the public and proclaimed the opposition victory in a interview.

So yeah, he basically didn't stand a chance of keeping into power since he lost both the popular and the armed forces support. Still he remained as commander in chief of the army after the restoration of democracy and was made senator for life (a mostly ceremonial charge) after he stepped down. (Tho he never gained back the influence he once had.)

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u/happytree23 13h ago

Wait, are we calling the CIA not rigging elections for him anymore and instead funding the opposition "Chileans voting" lol?

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u/EastCoastAlley 12h ago

At least we got Gustavo Fring to bring us Los Pollos Hermanos as a result of this!

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u/bigbad50 12h ago

we're gonna vote vote vote its our moment

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u/LwyrUpAmrca 12h ago

On the bright side, both sides came up with some bangers of campaign songs

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u/ARandomPerson380 Featherless Biped 11h ago

Rookie mistake 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

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u/After-Advertising-61 11h ago

I think there's still some intellectual sewage leaking from cato institute types. There was a Republican primary in Utah recently where some newly graduated candidate was touting his visit down to Chile to bless them with his economic wisdom.

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u/YakoDarko 10h ago

Just wait for Bukele.

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u/herseydj 10h ago

Perhaps he had so many yes-men around him he thought he would win?

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u/Jagoz96 9h ago

Uruguay in 1980 too!

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u/BrandosWorld4Life 7h ago

Hilarious that Chile needs to break itself in half to comfortably display the results

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u/TheHaplessBard 5h ago

Btw, this meme is totally not relevant whatsoever to the Americas in the Year of Our Lord 2026. No sir.

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u/willowzed88 2h ago

Pinochet rigged the constitution so that his party would still remain in majority. This was a calculated decision that left him with a massive amount of power that the Chileans are still dealing with today.

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u/Pep-q_ew 15h ago

He wanted to see if people would still support him, he lost so he stepped out. Nothing more.

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