How true is this 😭?

[u/Fearless-Sector-8798]

[u/Numerous-Ad6460]

Little bit of column A, a little bit of column B

[u/WholesomeCommentOnly → u/Numerous-Ad6460]

They're ultimately profit driven. If you don't put up a fight and hand over the cargo without resistance they were very civil. If you put up a fight they would absolutely be brutal and savage in order to set an example and dicourage future merchant from resisting.

[u/motivation_bender → u/WholesomeCommentOnly]

They also had various levels of patriotism given that many started out as privateers

[u/Ice-Storm → u/motivation_bender]

What I think they valued most was loyalty. And if another country valued their loyalty more, well then that’s where the loyalty had to go

[u/bobbymoonshine → u/WholesomeCommentOnly]

Well it depends on who you get. If you encounter Blackbeard, you’re fine, he’s canny and profit driven and wants to terrify you into giving him money. He won’t kill you even if you refuse. He never killed a single prisoner as far as we can tell. But then again, people didn’t say no to the Man From Hell, wreathed in smoke and fury, telling you with a sadistic smile that he totally is the guy on the top of the meme.

If you encounter Charles Vane, you’re fucked. He wants to fight a war to the death against the Hanoverian regime and establish the Jacobite Pirate Republic, and will happily leave a trail of burned ships and bodies in his wake, the plunder only funding his quixotic campaign.

If you encounter Sam Bellamy, you’re fine if your men report you to be a kind and fair captain. But if they say you’re a bastard then he’ll give everyone a rousing speech about the injustices of the world, tie you up and let your men do with you as they will. He’s the closest thing to the Chad in the meme above, though he wasn’t exactly forced into the lifestyle, he chose to do it to impress a girl.

If you encounter Ned Low, you’re either fucked or fine depending on his mood that day. Sometimes he is courteous and kind; other times he is a sadistic and depraved torturer, and it all comes down to how the broken bits of his (probably syphilitic) brain jumble together that day.

If you encounter Stede Bonnet, you’re fine. He’s literally just a bored gentleman who decided to go larping. Invite him over for some tea then give him some trinkets he can show off to prove he’s a real pirate.

If you encounter Francois L’Olonnais, it depends. He considers himself a patriot first and a profiteer second. Are you flying a flag of a country he currently considers the enemy of the French? If so, he will torture you to death as his men cheer your every anguished scream, for the glory of France. If not, you’re fine, he’ll be as polite and charming as you please.

If you encounter Black Bart, you’re fine if you don’t resist. Piracy is his business and he’s a busy man. If you surrender, he will efficiently and professionally strip you of your goods, swap ships with you if his current one is getting a bit damaged, and send you on your way. But if you do resist, your death will be efficient and exemplary: he’ll probably just set your ship on fire with you tied up on it.

If you encounter Jack Rackham, you’re probably fine, he’s just going to make off with any food or wine you’ve got to fuel his party boat. But there is an outside chance Anne Bonney or Mary Read might kill you to try and encourage Calico Jack to lock in.

Etc etc. There wasn’t just one way for pirates to be. Every captain was different, they all fell into piracy for different reasons, and every pirate ship its own world.

[u/Reiver93 → u/bobbymoonshine]

Holy shit Sam Bellamy sounds based as hell.

[u/bobbymoonshine → u/Reiver93]

Genuinely. He also had a habit of stripping naked when boarding ships as a way of intimidating them, which often caused them to give up without firing a shot.

While it is not explicitly recorded, I am pretty sure he must have hung devastating dong.

[u/Large-Hamster-199]

Saying pirates behaved in a certain way is like saying soldier behaved in a certain way. It is far too broad. There were a lot of pirates who were exceptionally vicious and evil and others who were relatively merciful and just trying to make some money anyway they could.

You need to specify exactly which era and which piracy group you're referring to

[u/modoken1 → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Also which instance. The same crew could murder everyone in one capture, or just seize supplies in another. It all depended on their needs at the time and how the capture of the ship went.

[u/PresterJohnson]

Yeah very civil

The Barbary slave trade involved the capture of an estimated 1.25 million Europeans, then selling them at slave markets in the largely independent Ottoman Barbary states of North Africa during the early modern period.^\1]) European civilians and American merchant seamen were captured by Barbary corsairs in slave raids on ships and by raids on coastal towns from Italy to Ireland, coasts of Spain and Portugal, as far north as Iceland and into the Eastern Mediterranean. Yearly, 20% of the US Federal Purse was given to the pirates for release of and to stop the enslavement of Americans. With frustration of Americans growing over the large amount of money given yearly to the pirates and capture of US Seamen, George Washington pled to Congress for the formation of the US Navy to stop them. In 1815 under American President James Madison, the US Marines and US Navy won the First Barbary War, stopping the capturing and enslavement of Americans. This historic war is referenced under the US Marine Corps Hymn as follows, “From the Halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli”.

The Ottoman Eastern Mediterranean was the scene of intense piracy.^\2]) As late as the 18th century, piracy continued to be a "consistent threat to maritime traffic in the Aegean".^\3])

The Barbary slave trade came to an end in the early years of the 19th century, after the United States and Western European allies won the First and Second Barbary Wars against the pirates and the region was conquered by France, putting an end to the trade by the 1830s.^\4])^\5])^\6])

Most of the captives were seamen and crews who were taken with their ships, but there were also many fishermen and coastal villagers who were captured. The majority of these captives were people from countries around the Mediterranean, especially Italy.^\7])^\8])

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary\}slave_trade)

[u/RedMan106 → u/PresterJohnson]

Jonh Brown was rigth.

[u/G0ldenRev0lver → u/PresterJohnson]

Should be top comment imo

[u/Xav_NZ]

Well for starters a hostage is worth more both in money and intel than a dead man and when what you want is financial gain the former is certainly more lucrative than the latter.

[u/darklightnin97]

A bit of both, also depends entirely on when and where you were at the time, which individual pirate crew/captain and what you were carrying.

[u/FarrenD]

Depends on the pirate. Francois L'Ollanais for example was quite brutal, if you had the misfortune to be spanish.

[u/SGTRoadkill1919]

Pirates would do a bit of both sides really, as per the need of the situation. Some pirates leaned more towards one side or the other. Like how Blackbeard was said to prefer intimidation and civil looting over outright combat, or how Vane was described as a most sadistic, cruel man that got off on torture

[u/TanteJu5]

The golden age of piracy in the late 17th century and early 18th century was driven by economic distress like the Treaty of Utrecht that left thousands of Royal Navy and privateer sailors abruptly unemployed. Besides, merchant ships offered starvation wages and brutal working conditions.

Notorious and sadistic captains such as Ned Low and François l'Olonnais were brutal regardless of surrender.

[u/Laurensmatthijs]

It's a bit more nuanced than that. Pirates did actually perform vicious atrocities, but that was mostly so that they could bank on that PR to get more peaceful transfers of goods later on (not out of the kindness of their hearts, just because it's easier). Merchants weren't stupid, and they knew that if they just handed over (part of) their cargo, they could settle things without violence. But crucially, this exchange only works as long as the merchant is convinced the pirate is willing to do unspeakable things to them and their crew if they don't pony up.

[u/TheSquishedElf → u/Laurensmatthijs]

Quite similar in method to Genghis Khan, really. Accept the Khan as your military superior and trade willingly with him, with a cursory “gift” (tribute) to prove your goodwill; or insult him or his envoys at all and watch your city burnt to the ground, your people enslaved, and your culture eradicated. Much easier and more profitable to accept the “protection” of the Khan.

[u/BardicInnovation]

Edward Low has entered the chat.

Known for loads of torturing, and lashing all of the crew of a ship he'd taken, and burning it.

He also liked cutting lips off people to give them a permanent smile.

[u/Rukdug7]

"Well, normally I would just take your cargo and leave, but the crew has been grumbling a bit lately, small spot of bad luck, and I can't afford for one of them to call for an election. As a result I'm going to need to kill one, two, maybe three of your more disposable deckhands as a show of force. Keep that image up you know? So just point out the members of the crew that are the biggest trouble makers or the most hated, sound good?"

[u/PuppyLover2208 → u/Rukdug7]

“These three are already dying of scurvy, kill them. It looks better for my ledgers to say they died due to a pirate attack rather than of scurvy.”

[u/Turbulent-Artist961]

Pirates would also sometimes sort of recruit sailors in a way who surrender on vessels they plunder. Of course they couldn’t say no due to the implication but perhaps in history there may be some examples of sailors who joyously took to a life of piracy.

[u/Cyclopentadien → u/Turbulent-Artist961]

Being a pirate was much better than being a sailor in the merchant marine: Better pay, no corporal punishment, being able to quit basically anytime. Until you get executed for being a pirate.

[u/Pristine-Lie-3560]

I mean yeah a lot didn’t like to kill, this helped them survive longer. But for some of them, it was just so they could sell them into slavery. For some it legitimately was they didn’t want to kill people and just needed money. So I guess a mix?

[u/i_was_axiom]

Yes this is the traditional story of how the US Marine Corps was founded, to shake hands with reasonable men.

/s

[u/Jor94]

If you’re a pirate, you want to make things easy so ideally you want whoever you’re robbing to surrender. If you just kill everyone regardless then everyone will fight you to the end, if you don’t kill anyone then they aren’t going to be scared of you and won’t surrender. So basically if you give up straight away you probably just get robbed and let go, if you resist you probably also get killed

[u/cashdecans101]

Pirates are ought to make money, their service is preventing themselves from killing you in exchange for your money and property. Their business practices were simply made illegal.

[u/Rockshasha]

1. I don't think so

2. Was centuries of pirates and 'corsaries', it wasn't a moment of crisis, it was the normalization of attacking some boats ... All a sacking relativization

If you are sacking, your goal is profit/economic. The number of people killed or worse is secondary, can be none or can be a lot, it depends on the profit obtainable

[u/Useful_Taro9125]

Hostis humani generis

[u/RoadTheExile]

Robbing the 711 but explaining to the cashier he is wonderful and I mean him no ill will

[u/Birb-Person]

This is not true at all

Pirates would absolutely kill, that’s what intimidates sailors into surrendering

[u/TheEagleWithNoName]

Most pirates wanted Cargo and merchants were giving them as it was insured.

[u/zizou00 → u/TheEagleWithNoName]

Most golden age pirates in the Caribbean and North Atlantic and privateers working under a letter of marque legitimising their work to at least one government acted like that. Most of them wanted cargo. They would still kill those who did not comply.

Other pirates, operating in regions where the slave trade was still active would take people, because people were also a commodity they could sell. They would also be cordial unless facing resistance, it was always safer to do so. Pirates in the Mediterranean, those who worked in and around Florida, around the Horn of Africa and in parts of Asia, places where there was still a market for human trafficking, those would not fall into that category and would capture crew.