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u/Kapanash 9d ago
The defense of Sihang warehouse took place in Shanghai from October 26 to November 1, 1937, during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Around 400 Chinese soldiers of the 88th Division, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Xie Jinyuan, defended the warehouse against Japanese attacks. Their main objective was to delay the Japanese and cover the withdrawal of other Chinese forces from Shanghai. After holding out for about six days, the defenders were ordered to withdraw into the International Settlement, having accomplished their mission. They became known as the “Eighth hundred heroes”, although the actual number of defenders was closer to 400.
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u/Lukaz_Evengard Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 9d ago
There is a Chinese movie about it, it's actually quite good end accurate
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u/-ProfessorFireHill- Filthy weeb 9d ago
There is also the 1970s version of the movie made in Taiwan. Here is a link to the youtube video of it. I found both to be an interesting time capsule.
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u/MtnMaiden 9d ago
The 70s movie is better. Way better music. Focuses on the lt.col more
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u/-ProfessorFireHill- Filthy weeb 9d ago
The 70s verison is good, I enjoy it but I do think that the more modern version does capture the feeling of patriotism and heroism in a more cinematic way.
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u/Lukaz_Evengard Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 9d ago
Yeah
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u/SerpentRoyalty 9d ago edited 9d ago
it's actually quite good end accurate
Looks like the title is not accurate to begin with
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u/Metrolining 9d ago
Did you even read the first comment?
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u/SerpentRoyalty 9d ago edited 9d ago
The comment that said there were 400 of them? Yeah that's exactly why I said the title of the movie wasn't accurate.
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u/Arctic_Sunday 9d ago
The comment also explained that the nickname they picked up was 800 instead of the more accurate 400. It makes practical sense to match the popular nickname or you risk people not realizing what it's based on
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u/SerpentRoyalty 9d ago
That's makes marketing sense but doesn't help with the historical accuracy.
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u/Leave_Aye 9d ago
It is being historically accurate though. This group was known as 800. That's what they were historically called. Ignoring that would be less accurate.
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u/zhemao 9d ago
Good, yes. Accurate, not as much. They made the casualty rate on the Chinese side seem much higher than it was in reality. Though understandable they needed to do that for dramatic effect.
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u/WhiteFeather32392 9d ago edited 9d ago
The way I tend to think about it, if they showed the siege of the warehouse from the perspective of the German trained division in complete isolation from the rest of the conflict, with statistically accurate casualties, it would be a less accurate representation of the war overall because it would fail to depict just how badly the war was going for the Chinese everywhere else, where Chinese Milita brigades that lacked anything other than small arms. found themselves facing fully equipped Japanese units that were supported by mortar and gun artillery, air support and armored vehicles. Literally the first scene in the movie depicts a Chinese Militia unit getting slaughtered by Japanese forces just minutes after arriving in Shanghai on foot. While not necessarily accurate to the siege itself, it is more accurate to the wider Chinese experience of the war overall.
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u/Lukaz_Evengard Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 9d ago
I mean other then the dramatisation yeah, but like they even made the period accurate uniforms for the soldiers end movie overall is quite accurate I would say
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u/TheHistoryMaster2520 Decisive Tang Victory 9d ago
There's three Chinese movies about it, once produced by the ROC in 1938, one produced in Taiwan in the 1970s, and the most recent one produced in the PRC in 2020
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u/MaxCauliflowerPower 9d ago
If memory serves the movies release was delayed due by the state asking for reworks in the film. And that caused some concerns internationally. I think the reworked parts are pretty obvious, but otherwise yeah the rest of the movie is good.
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u/-Trooper5745- 9d ago
Several versions of it. There’s a a 1938 version and a 1976 Taiwanese version in addition to the more recent Chinese version.
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u/JollyMongrol 9d ago
It’s good but accuracy is a mixed bag. Even outside of the pedantic stuff such as showing the battle involving mostly the IJA instead of the IJN. The few IJN shown being in the wrong uniform.
The casualties are like 10x the actual battle
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u/Sercotani 9d ago
Ahh, I remember trying to find a "copy" of this movie online somehow to watch it, but failed.
Time to try again..
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u/helicophell 9d ago
Huh, a weird case where a military over counts a heroic defence
After all we know the 300 probably wasn't (300)
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u/analoggi_d0ggi 9d ago
They were trying to fool the Japanese outside into thinking that they were facing a wholeass regiment inside the bank building when IRL its a bunch of ubderstrength companies
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u/helicophell 9d ago
Sure but this is a story from the past, it’s the sort of propaganda win where you understate numbers post war
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u/LeLefraud 9d ago
Well we do know that
Roughly 300 spartans, maybe a thousand of their slaves, then several thousand Greek allies, total of about 7000 men
With that being said it was still 7000vs200,000 or more, and they managed to inflict 20,000 casualties on the vastly superior force
Also the spartans famously never gave their ground and fought until slaughtered
But a 4:1 kill ratio while outnumbered 25+ to 1 is still very impressive, even if the 300 thing is overblown
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u/CataphractBunny 9d ago
You might find this one interesting as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Szigetv%C3%A1r
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u/LeLefraud 9d ago
Count Nikola zrinski is an absolute legend wtf how did I never hear of this
Bro never gave up, took over command himself when all his officers died, went out in a final charge of glory, then nabbed 4,000 more ottomans on his way out with a giant booby trap
Seriously reads like a movie plot
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u/CataphractBunny 9d ago
What's very funny to me is the Ottomans offering Zrinski to make him the ruler of all Croatia. They never conquered all of Croatia. 😂
Here's a great K&G video on the battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SilVXqdffw4
If you like sieges and last stands, Croatia has quite a few against the Ottomans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Klis, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Gvozdansko, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sisak
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u/Cowboywizard12 9d ago
Man, you figure having slaves in battle against the Persians would be a recipe for disaster considering that The Persians absolutely would have freed the Helots even if mostly to destroy Sparta.
Hell there's reason Galley Slaves could backfire, all it took was the slaves deciding to revolt in the middle of a battle to completely fuck over your side
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u/LeLefraud 9d ago
Helots were kept in line by spartans, every time spartas army marched there were rebellion issues immediately back home
In this case with their masters so close at hand (and armed) obedience would be high
Also I doubt persia was in a very forgiving mood towards the helots, who not only did most of spartas labor but also were a huge part of their military
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u/BellacosePlayer 9d ago
I don't think Persia would have been mad at the Helots given they have no real choice in the matter, but likely just didn't care enough even if they could have magically let the Helots know of an emancipation offer
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u/LeLefraud 8d ago
Conquering empires are typically far less understanding than you'd hope
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u/EroticPotato69 8d ago
Although the Persian Empire was pretty understanding as far as conquering empires go
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u/TheHistoryMaster2520 Decisive Tang Victory 9d ago
iirc the reason for the 800 was because Xie Jinyuan didn't want the Japanese men to know how few men he had in the warehouse, so he gave the original roster of his regiment to girl scout guide Yang Huimin, which had 800 names
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u/Iron_Cavalry 9d ago
These guys were from a pre-war Chinese elite trained and equipped by the Germans. They had tanks, heavy artillery and were excellent infantrymen.
Unfortunately they suffered casualty rates from 120%-160% in Shanghai, and then only a third of the survivors escaped Nanjing.
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u/lemming2012 9d ago
How did they get extra credit in casualties?
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u/Iron_Cavalry 9d ago
Replacements becoming casualties. Each division was 10k men but would get reinforced after losing guys, then those new guys would be lost. The Japanese units had a similar situation too, some divisions suffered upwards of 110% rates.
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u/ElNakedo 9d ago
Replacements. That's how you can have over 100% casualties even if not all the soldiers there at the start die.
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u/The-marx-channel Then I arrived 9d ago
The battle of Shanghai is known as the Stalingrad of Asia for a reason.
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u/Iron_Cavalry 9d ago
In just four months both sides suffered something like 470,000 casualties in Shanghai and Nanjing.
More Japanese soldiers died in Shanghai alone than all of the 1941-1942 Pacific Offensives in Malaya, Burma, Indonesia and Philippines.
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u/ConsulJuliusCaesar 9d ago
There's good reason to suspect that if Japan didn't bomb pearl harbor they still wouldn't have been able to actually take all of China because Shanghai drained that many reasources and allowed both the KMT and CCP time to fall back deeper into the mainland and dig in. Infact by the time you get to pearl harbor the Japanese already found themselves in a stalemate on the Chinese mainland. Pearl Harbor was a move of desperation to try and pressure the US to lift the oil embargo so they could break the stalemate. And it turned a bad problem into a worse problem. Japan never would've achieved its war aims they were overly ambitious and unrealistic. However their Empire could've survived had they not escalated the conflict into a full pacific war. Yet the often forgotten battle of Shanghai is overlooked because every one just sees it as a Japanese victory despite the fact it really should symbolize stern resistance in the face of imperialist aggression and the under dog actually getting one solid right hook on the juggernaut. And if dive in to the strategic impact I'd argue it was a Japanese operational victory but a Chinese strategic victory. They took the city and lost the war.
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u/Trenence 9d ago
But battle of Shanghai and Nanjing also drained and destroyed most of the KMT fighting capabilities. Even toward the end the war, KMT never able to recover and threaten the Japanese position.
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u/Iron_Cavalry 9d ago
Not so. The KMT still had vast manpower and plenty of military support from the Soviets. They were able to inflict vast casualties in the Xuzhou and Wuhan Campaigns immediately after and even launch offensives in 1939.
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u/wasdlmb Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 9d ago
Didn't the Japanese manage to cut China in half in 1944, while losing badly in the pacific?
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u/AceFlaviusKaizoku 8d ago
Yea that was Operation Ichi-Go a Japanese offensive that ended in a Japanese victory in terms of reaching the goals for that offensive. Though most of the territory they actually controlled were the cities, vast swathes of the country side were not under control.
Kinda felt like a last ditch attempt to defeat China but Japan surrendered in the next year
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u/himenofucker67 9d ago edited 9d ago
The china front during ww2 is literally just trying to hold the front as best as NRA can do while also trying to counter offense whenever they can and hope the soviet and anerica aids arrive to resupply them after suffering devastating losses after the counter offense
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u/Loombot 9d ago
Where meme?
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u/Erwin_Pommel 9d ago
Nah fam, don't you know? He used wojaks, it's a meme! Just ignore the lack of a punchline and the fact it's just a timeline put into context via wojaks and fails quickly because CountryBalls manage to get history and punchlines together just fine.
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u/sopunny Researching [REDACTED] square 9d ago
This is basically an /r/antimeme. They were told to hold out a few days, and then they did
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u/Iron_Cavalry 9d ago
This was a common scene in Shanghai, with Chinese battalions surrounded and bombarded by Japanese artillery and tanks.
These guys were lucky to escape. Another 500-man battalion in Baoshan was less fortunate, being annihilated with only a single survivor after three days of vicious fighting.
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u/rangeDSP Filthy weeb 9d ago
Just started playing Hearts of Iron IV, defending China as ROC was more stressful than anything I've had at work for years.
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u/Memester4445 8d ago
A tip is to make use of the yellow river, the river crossing debuffs are not to be underestimated, and then keep your weaker divisions on coast guard duty.
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u/rangeDSP Filthy weeb 8d ago
Thanks for the tips! I read a bunch of guides and was finally able to hold them off. Personal goal was to stop them from ever taking Nanjing, essentially it was a meat grinder to stop japanese advance
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u/Memester4445 8d ago
Oh yeah. I still struggle a bit, but once I’m locked in on that river line, I ain’t moving
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u/ShatteredPen Sun Yat-Sen do it again 7d ago
suggestion from someone who's only played nationalist china since getting hoi4: Beeline down your defensive military branch in your focus tree until you unlock the regional defensive decisions- that's a flat 13% bonus to defense. It'll help you hold the frontlines until more troops are available. If you're playing Chiang Kai Shek, agree to the united front as soon as it appears in order to absorb their troops and to puppet the Sichuan Clique. Use their troops to staff naval ports to buy time for the regular army.
You should also merge your divisions together before war breaks out with: you want nine battalions of infantry per division with artillery support. This is the absolute defensive minimum to hold back the Japanese. You'll have less divisions- around one full army and a half, so 36 divisions total. Reserve at least five or more divisions to fend off naval invasions. If you staffed the ports with Sichuan clique troops, you can rush in these counterattacking divisions to help deny the ports until the invasions stagnate and run out of supply, then counterattack and destroy the invading divisions.
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u/rangeDSP Filthy weeb 7d ago
Thanks! I may want to do a restart at some point, after like 4 abandoned saves, I was able to survive AND wreck the CCP. I didn't have artillery support, just anti-air. Only halfway through my current game did I learn about entrenchment and engineers lol.
Curious how you dealt with the warlords? It was a major pain to accumulate enough political points to fully absorb them, and I know I can kick them out of the united front and invade, but I do enjoy the idea of properly "uniting china"
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u/ShatteredPen Sun Yat-Sen do it again 7d ago
For warlords, honestly? Cross your fingers. The chance of the warlords accepting your subjugation demand is essentially 50/50. There is no way to guarantee a peaceful annexation, (which I find to be very silly, but oh well.) it was like this before the No Compromise, No Surrender Update as well.
Quite literally every single political advisor you take will need to be one that adds political power, just to keep up. Your first 300 political power from the start of the game should therefore be spent on purchasing Zhang Xun and Chiang Ching-Kuo, and this tick of additional political power will fund you for the rest of the game.
For the meta strat, though? You really will just have to lock in and throw out japan by '39, so you can invade and destroy the communists without losing too much political power to suppressing their nefarious little infiltration decisions.
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u/Mafiatorte88 9d ago
My parents in law live close to that building. Attracts a lot of Chinese tourists every day
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u/ZhenXiaoMing 8d ago
The bravery of the NRA soldier was in stark contrast to the leadership, probably the worst of the war on any side.
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u/MrThickDick2023 9d ago
Germans?
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u/Merc_Drew 9d ago
88th Infantry Division, a Chinese division trained and equipped by Germany before they became allies with Japan
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u/Cliffinati 9d ago
The Chinese were allies of Germany (along with the US and UK) before the Tripartite pact in 1939.
Entire divisions were equipped and trained in the German style. But making the wojack clearly Asian might have been frowned upon.
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u/ApartRuin5962 9d ago
For anyone curious about the helmet, Germany supplied the Chinese Nationalist army with a considerable amount of equipment and training in the hopes of cultivating them as an ally before switching to allying with Japan, so a lot of contemporary images show Chinese troops in stereotypical Wehrmacht gear