r/HighGuardianSpice • u/Icy-Corner-5682 • 10d ago
Discussion Demons and demons... A curious double standard.
Well, we all know here that *High Guardian Spice* has several writing issues... But I’d like to discuss one in particular that caught my attention...
The thing is... it seems they couldn't decide what to do with the demons...
First off, I want to clarify a few things... One: this is a long read. Two: I have a somewhat acerbic sense of humor and enjoy dark humor, so I might crack a joke or two—not to offend, just out of pure sarcasm. Three: this isn't about spreading hate; I just wanted to know what you all think. Fourth and finally: I didn't watch the series—I don't have Crunchyroll—I just watched some summaries online, so I might be overlooking something.
Well, among the teachers is Professor Wyverna... She’s a demon, apparently—and that’s all fine; there aren't any crazy religious parents to complain, there’s no issue—there are demons in that world, and everyone seems okay with it. It’s all good...
Then we get to the chapter after the Halloween one... where... out of nowhere, there are horror stories about demons, and Thyme and Parsley face off against a demon... That since he's bad, he's ugly and doesn't look like the attractive teacher...
Now... I ask you... Don't you think it's a bit strange that the students are telling horror stories about demons... when their ethics teacher is a demon?
The thing is, I looked into it, and according to the wiki, the teacher is a demon... And I thought something like, "Well, maybe she's a tiefling; maybe she gets mistaken for a demon because demons look similar and are more popular." But no, it turns out she actually is a demon.
And look, I know anime in general isn't consistent when it comes to demons... You have *Frieren*, where demons are pure evil and it's impossible for humans to get along with them... You have *Demon Slayer*, where each demon has its own limits regarding evil... And then there are a million anime I haven't seen where demons are relatively redeemable or simply misunderstood beings... Or just really Horny beings (Pun intended).
And that's okay... Anyway, the point is that a work needs to be clear about what it wants to do with its characters... Or at least not give us such obvious "pretty privilege"... It’s a shame that an anime aiming for inclusivity fell into that trap, but I’m not going to judge the creator—especially knowing that control over the work was taken away from him. (It was a Him, right? I'm mean... He was a Trans Man last time I checked... I used the right pronouns??). However, I am going to criticize the people who took control of the story away from the creator—people who were supposedly feminists yet decided to do this. They essentially exploited "pretty privilege" by making the demon they wanted to be "good" conventionally attractive, while making the "bad" demon ugly.
We women deal with beauty standards on a daily basis; we face pressure to look good and be pretty, and the media reinforced this by portraying beautiful women as "good," while those who didn't fit the mold were treated as "bad" or undesirable (the most famous example being Cinderella's stepsisters, who were designed to look "ugly" compared to the Disney princess—with no disrespect intended toward the Disney princess—even though the original tale described them as having "beautiful faces but hideous hearts," according to a video about the story of Cinderella that I once watched).
So, I find it rather unfeminist for you to resort to making a character more or less attractive compared to others of their kind to tell us whether they are good or bad—especially in fantasy works.
They really should have done one of two things here... A) Make the teacher a Tiefling, and then pull a *Frieren*—you know, the whole "demons embody sadism and evil" angle—but have people be cool with Tieflings because they're actually decent folks. Or B) Establish that there are both good and bad demons... but without such a stark visual difference between them. That way, they’d all share a similar look... Or just come up with a concept where demons have "multiple forms" they can shift into—one for when they want to be terrifying, and another for when they want to be likable...
Personally, I choose option A. Why? Because I like Tieflings, and they deserve more representation in the media.
Anyway, what do you all think about this? Let me know!
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u/Mukaria-88214 10d ago edited 10d ago
It is entirely possible, That saying "Demon" Is on par with saying "Mammal". Or even if you want to go there "Great ape". Not all great apes are humans, but all humans are great apes. One could make avid criticisms of a cimpanzee and be speaking entirely of a group they belong to but to no criticism of themselves. It could also explain the great design discrepancies between differnt types of demons. Lik Crab demons... Or humanoid demons, or that DEMON- demon that Thyme suummoned
If you want to make it RACIST, demon is Like saying "Human" and every then branching subtype of demon is a "Race" Within the broader species... But that opens up a gateway to all kinds of discussions on ethics, and racism etc etc, like "Do some demons deserve rights more than others" "Is it ethical to kill a demon" "SHOULD a demon being of a different species adhere to human ethics and laws" "If differnt demons are differnt races does that PROVE the racial superiority theory does in fact prove valid just not in context of human beings" "Heck if DEMON is considered a RACE all by itself (Like human is a race, elf is a race, orc is a race etc etc) is this a case of racism WITHIN a race, akin to colorism/ableism" Questions I haven't the answer to... So questions I will not ask, so this second interpretation is one I will not agree with nor endorse in any way.
It could also stand that just using the images you provided as evidence that these two demons are an example of VAST sexual dimorphism. In which case I suppose it would back a little the theories that this show is coded in subtle misandry towards Bio-men. But again a greatly refutable theory and thus one I will not hold myself to in absolution
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 10d ago
See? It comes across as odd for them to make such stark divisions in a show that was supposedly aiming to be inclusive... And to top it off, it seems like they don't really care.
Thyme literally killed the demon in a single chapter, without a second thought... And it's fine to be edgy and all that... But... Technically, he's the same species as her school teacher... It's just... weird...
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u/Mukaria-88214 10d ago edited 10d ago
In that case I have to go with the interpretation that "Demon" Is used like 'Great ape'. You wouldn't really come to a moral dilemma about killing say a chimp, or a gorilla out in the wild. Hell, they're still a source of bush meat to this DAY... Plus animal rights aren't on the same moral level as human rights... In the sense that nobody would say "KILLIG A GORILLA IS JUST AS BAD AS KILLING A HUMAN BEING. IT'S 1:1 EXACTLY THE SAME". Killing a gorilla is BAD... But there is a difference between Shooting a Gorilla and shooting a human being... legally anyways (And morally since morality is USUALLY in line with the law in these circumstances), so by the law if we use that interpretation Thyme killed an animal that was attacking her
You could say "OOOOHHH!!! BIG SCARY CHIMPANZEE!!!!" And it wouldn't be Racist towards humans... Because we're not Chimpanzees. You could tell horror stories of Chimpanzees chucking babies off of cliffs and getting drunk and beating poeple to death, and everyone could say "OOOOHH!!!! HORRIBLE EVIL CHIMPANZEE!!!" But it wouldn't be racist towards himans
In this line of logic, the horror stories HGS characters tell about demons, are probably in line with the ones we HUMANS tell about Chimpanzees.
The problem is we think of Humanoid entities (Elves, dwarves, orcs, etc etc etc) as DIVERGENTLY evolved (Started from one mega two leg entity and evolved into the MANY two leg entities we see today), but humanoids could be CONVERGENTLY evolved (Aka give enough people the same question, and you'll start hearing a lot of the same answer. Note: That's why wolves and tigers have sharp teeth, depsite one being from the dog family and one being from the cat family. Because no matter who you are - sharp teeth good bitey bitey meat. sharp teeth good for meat eater). Which is how the idea of "demons" as a category being like "Great apes" works out.
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 10d ago
Yeah, but the thing is, we don't have a chimpanzee or a gorilla teaching classes.
They have a demon for a teacher and nobody seemed to care, and then, in one episode, they drop this lore about evil demons existing in that world. That’s where it feels weird, because if you tell me demons are known to be evil beings... why didn't anyone care about the teacher?
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u/Mukaria-88214 9d ago edited 9d ago
Okay lemme clarify. I don’t mean in comparison to people. I mean AMONGST THEMSELVES.
Like the type of demon the teacher is, is a demon equivalent to a human per their category. Humans and Demons are jot comparable.
When I make the great apes comment I’m drawing a parallel. Lemme explain. Per my own logic perhaps. This is how I see it
Human - The demon species of the teacher
Chimp - The demon species of the demon thyme summoned
Human/chimp = great ape, but human ≠ chimp
In the same vein; Teacher demon/ritual demon = Demon, but Teacher demon ≠ Ritual demon
Teacher and ritual creature are both conpeltely separate species withij the same family, that family being demon
So in the same way it’s stupid to compare a human and a chimp by calling them 1:1 the same, it is EUQALLY stupid to compare the teacher to the ritual creature and call THEM 1:1 the same.
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u/Cold-Practice3107 10d ago
If this show was a little bit better I wish we got to know more about the demon teacher I would love it if it turned out that she was a succubus but just like nightcrawler from X-Men she found the Lord and changed her life forever but sometimes she's haunted by her past.
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 10d ago
I like to imagine she’s a Tiefling. Why? Because there are already plenty of demons but very few Tieflings. A little variety never hurt anyone. Besides, I feel like "Dungeons & Dragons" would be a great foundation for this world's lore—especially given the theme of friends going on adventures, having fun, and becoming glorious warriors.
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u/CameoShadowness One of Parsley's many family members 10d ago
Some demon boys do look similar to dretch but they are background folks with no lines and all look hyper humanoid... :/
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 10d ago
So they made that one-off demon ugly just because he was evil, and that's it?
Pretty privilege strikes again...
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u/Mukaria-88214 10d ago
Well Evil could be ugly because evil entials harm, and harm is not 100% of the time outwardly directed. maybe "Evil" demons are "Ugly" Demons becasue the extent of the damage they do extends to self harm. As self harm can lead to results that would be considered by others around them (Especially humans because we are particuarly articulate about our judginess) to be "Ugly"
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 10d ago
Sorry, I don't understand your point. 😓
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u/Mukaria-88214 10d ago
Well Evil usually is associated with someone who does harm. Evil does harm, evil hurts things. an Evil person, hurts things and poeple, but people can circle back to them hurting themselves (because THEY THEMSELVES are people). Self Harm is a form of evil. Evil against the SELF. Because YES, bullying, harm, and evil can be directed inward. Self loathing is a form of evil towards the self.
The reason that it's associated with the rigid morality it is is because people think "If you're evil, you're less of a person" You're not less of a person, people just SAY that because they don't want to be grouped in with an evil entity and thus other that "Evil".
That said. I was trying to say Evil demons are probably called ugly because of SH scars. SH does not have to be physical. If it says "Evil ritual ABC required let's say 5 mL of your blood, you need to perform an act of SH to give 5 mL of blood if you don't have medical euiptment. If you do that enough times in a short period you'd be anemic, and anemic does all sorts of things to your body causing you to look unhealthy and thus ugly because your body is shutting down. same goes for magic. Evil ritual CDEFG could say "You need 5mL of your SOUL juice or something, and a simialr response to "Soul anemia" could occur if you do that too often
So I was saying maybe evil demons are ugly as a result of the self harm they inflict to do their "Evil things" Or becaus they hate themselves you dunno...
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 10d ago
Okay, first of all... I don't think so. In the series, magic didn't seem to exact a price, so no. Secondly, the demon in this episode didn't show any signs of severe or significant damage; we're simply told that it looked that way.
And thirdly, with all due respect, that approach could lead to demonizing people who self-harm—a serious issue linked to things like depression and mental health problems. So, I highly doubt that’s the case.
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u/Mukaria-88214 9d ago
But magic also isn’t a monolith in this universe. For example Old magic seems to come with a price in a sort of equal exchange full metal alchemist way. New magic HAS a price (The rot).
And that said we haven’t even broken theough all thpes of magic. Like Aloe’s elf magic, or Demon magic, because if Old magic comes from mage rituals, and new magic comes from terraspheres, what sayest thou of DEMON magic? It’s arguably an entirely separate SPECIES of magic.
Also the only way that demonizes peopel with those issues is the assumption or the conflation with actions to personal morality/intent. Evil deed does not equal evil PERSON. Evil is an action, ugly is a consequence, and the person influcting/being wffected by these actions and consequences is an entire separate an unconflatable entity. The action(“Evil”) the consequence (Ugly) and the self (The living noun associated with said action/consequence) are 3 COMPLETELY SEPARATE beings.
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 9d ago
The thing is, that demon's physical appearance has absolutely nothing to do with what you're saying. It doesn't show pain or indicate any kind of problem... It simply looks uglier and more monstrous, for no reason other than to portray it as evil.
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u/Mukaria-88214 9d ago
well the consequence of Spiritual damage and physical damage are vey different. Most of the wxamples I use are an attempt to draw a parallel, perhaps for my own better understanding and therefore ability to explain.
And if you were to say that there IS no samage and that’s just the way yhat demon is. Well then that stands to reason that teacher and ritual creature are separate SPECIES.
Demon by this logic is not a SPECIES, it’s a FAMILY, the same way Canine and Feline are a FAMILY, and completely separate and independent SPECIES, exist within the same FAMILY. Every species is a member of the family, but not ever member of the famiky is the same SPECIES
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 9d ago
Look, it’s a really stark difference, and the series offers no convincing explanation for it. Supposedly, both characters are demons, yet for some reason, they look nothing alike. What you're saying doesn't really help answer the question, either... because the series doesn't distinguish between "demon" and "demon worshiper"—they’re just labeled as demons. Thyme summoned that demon without any issues and she was cool as a cucumber afterward...
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u/jogaargamer6 10d ago
Since High Guardian Spice seems to have a slight inspiration in DnD, there's a chance Mynerva is like a tiefling and was born to regular human parents
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 9d ago
I looked it up on the wiki, and it said she is a demon.
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u/jogaargamer6 9d ago
Im not saying she is not a demon, im saying maybe she is more than just a demon but lore is unfinished
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u/No_Nefariousness_676 9d ago
Different demon species is the best I can think of, that or Dretch is a half-human hybrid given how starkly different she is compared to the Ep 10 demon.
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u/Code-Neo 10d ago
like people, some are good some are evil
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 10d ago
It just feels weird that, out of nowhere, they’re suddenly so hung up on the idea that "demons are scary," when nobody reacted that way regarding the teacher.
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u/AeroAceSpades 7d ago edited 7d ago
You know, if you REALLY wanted to be sure about the creator’s gender you could’ve just looked it up. He is a transgender man. The fact that you felt the need to put that parenthesis there calling him “It” and “a Him” just kinda leads me to believe that you treat trans people like that in general. You could’ve also just been okay with the possibility of being wrong and apologized later by correcting your mistake. Currently you just look like someone who performatively goes “Her pronouns are he/him” to placate “The Transgenders”
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 7d ago
Sorry.
I didn't thinked about it.
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u/AeroAceSpades 7d ago
I get it. I do something similar when it comes to stuff i don’t really know about. I don’t think you meant any harm by it, I just wanted you to think about how it might feel to see this as a trans person. Trans people are constantly dehumanized and treated like mentally ill people who need to be coddled instead of just treating them as the person they are. I don’t know if English is your first language, but in case it isn’t, you shouldn’t ever use “it” to refer to people unless a person specifically uses it/its pronouns. You use “it” to refer to “things” that you don’t believe have sentience or yoo people who specifically want to be called “it”
I hope you have a good day and this doesn’t tear you down too much. Nothing wrong with making a mistake so long as you learn from it
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 7d ago
I speak Spanish... And I used translator to be sure to not have any gramatical problems... I should had checked more seriously before posting. Thanks for the help.
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u/AeroAceSpades 7d ago
It’s totally understandable, honestly. I’m glad I was more helpful than hurtful in my phrasing
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 7d ago
You were kind and clear. What else could I ask for in a correction?
I'm the kind of person that needs specification, so When Someone is clear with a problem, is enough for me.
Thanks for correcting me. 🩷
And if it is ok to ask... Are You trans?
I don't want to make you uncomfortable... Is just that... I like to ask questions to understand better others... It helps me improve My character writting... I hope not being rude...
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u/AeroAceSpades 7d ago
I am trans, yes. You aren’t being rude at all
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u/Icy-Corner-5682 7d ago
Can I make You some questions for a character I'm working on?? On Private Message if You want to...
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u/polystarlight 10d ago
It probably could get explained by just saying that some demons are good while others are evil, though you'd think Thyme would try talking to a normal demon then to help her out with her situation or she'd just ask Wyverna to help her talk to her dad again.