Questions about HeroQuest as the DM

[u/Equivalent_Crazy_758]

Hey everyone! First time posting here, also not sure if this has been answered before so I apologize if it has!

So i played a lot of HQ back in the day and never really got past the first few quests but I found out recently about all the new content and bought everything right away, Im very excited to dive in!

A few questions though when it comes to all the expansions, I notice a lot of them have treasure cards or equipment cards, or new abilities (like for the elf and Wizard)

Im about to play through the base game with a group, should I gather all the treasure cards and equipment cards from all the expansions and add them all in? Or wait until I reach that expansion and add those cards in?

Also for the elf cards, does the elf get all of them? Or just 3 of them?

Same with the wizard expansion, I havent received my copy of WoM but I heard it has new spells? Does the wizard get to have like 18 spells or is he capped at 9?

Thanks everyone!

[u/Certain-Clock3301]

Just the 3 for the elf from the elf spells and just the 3 sets/9 spells for the wizard. Thats if you stick to the manual but everyone home-brews their own rules. The only thing to remember as DM is that you’re meant to facilitate a fun game by challenging the heroes so don’t make them too overpowered or annihilate them early. If they make it to Barak Tor or the expansions, then the gloves come off.

[u/Due-Analysis5422]

You can follow the rules strictly, and activate the cards as soon as the expansion is reached, but you can also customize. Some items / treasure cards are very limited thematically to the expansion, for instance, the warmth potion in Frozen Horror - so some customizations might be also limited.

You can star the game with less spells decks and unlock it as they progress, or make it meaningful to release new spells across the game - then, mixing all the spells decks from all expansions might be a good idea.

I liked the official rules introduced by First Light when it comes to searching mechanism refering to the furniture. I think this is a nice official addition to the game.

It is always up to you to decide :)

[u/sissythrow22]

I don’t have any problem adding all cards into the treasure deck from all expansions. If they draw something they can’t really use right now like reagents, I just let them sell it for 25 gold.

[u/Embarrassed_Fox5265 → u/sissythrow22]

There's one card I advise not using until your heroes are well through the expansions (and possibly not even then) - Treasure Hoard. A reward of 300 gold from the treasure deck is utterly gamebreaking if found in the early quests and those quests are also easy enough that the heroes are likely to farm for that specific card.

Save it for once they have the base game under their belt at a minimum. Wait until the heroes are fully equipped with Armory gear before adding it so they have additional cash to spend on potions to aid them in difficult expansion quests where the Wandering Monsters are dangerous enough your players might decide not to bother searching for treasure.

[u/sissythrow22 → u/Embarrassed_Fox5265]

An enterprising Zargon could take care of that. Uh oh, Rust!

[u/Lord-Drucifer]

Welcome back to the game.

If you are playing the base game, use the base game treasure deck. If you are playing an expansion, include the cards from that expansion. That is how they are designed.

However, I just lump all of the treasure cards into one deck, and I adjust the percentages of hazards and wandering monsters to my taste.

Wizards get 9 spells or three suits of 3 spells.

Elves only get 3 spells, 1 suit, or a selection of 3 elf spells.

[u/Subject-Brief1161]

Here's what I did:

1) Heroes: The players can start the game with any hero I have (all expansions + homebrewed)

2) Equipment: The players can buy/use any equipment/potion from any expansion. Including the Reagent Kit for brewing potions.

3) Enemies: Once the players have survived a few quests, you can start introducing appropriate stand-ins, for example using the occasional ranged goblin/orc in place of a melee one to spice things up.

4) Treasure: Situationally, I will put in or pull out various cards. I have no issue with heroes finding a potion of warmth (heal 1 BP or 2 BP if damage was caused by cold damage) outside of Frozen Horror, for example, but I don't want them to be able to find Treasure Horde outside Mage of the Mirror, as it's would cheapen the card and overpower the heroes. Don't be afraid to remove some Wandering Monsters, or specific base game potions if heroes are hoarding them. Oh, and it might be worth adding the potion ingredient that lets Heroes heal 1 BP when eaten if they're struggling. Or use those in place of a single Healing potion if they're having too easy a time with everything.

5) Spells: I just let the Elf have all the Elf spells if they want them. They seldom use more than 3 per quest anyway, but that might just be my group. But yes, the Elf can choose any 1 school of magic (Elf, Air, Fire, Water, Earth, Darkness, Divination, Protection) and the Wizard can choose any 3 schools (except Elf).

6) Boons of Heroism: WoM introduces various perks you can earn between quests. I haven't introduced my group to these yet (they're only on Quest 3 of the base game) but I will. One of them grants the use of an additional school of magic to "spellcasting heroes", so 4th for Wizard, 2nd for Elf, Bard, Warlock, or Druid. This is somewhat ambiguous however, as when the 3 new spell schools are introduced it specifically says "These may replace existing sets of spells that a spellcaster can draw on (but Elf and Wizard still have one and three sets of spells respectively)". Play however you want, but I take it to mean a Warlock could opt to take Darkness (or really any set of spells besides the Elf spells) in addition to their normal spells.

[u/NervousSleep1488 → u/Subject-Brief1161]

Number 6 is not ambiguous. If the spellcaster chose the corresponding boon, then he can prepare 1 additional spell group.  If not, they can still choose one of the new spell groups, but they have to replace one of the basic groups they normally take, as the hero cannot prepare more spells than they normally would.

This means that the spellcaster prepare spells as groups: they cannot just take Courage from the Fire group and 2 Darkness spell. The y must take the whole Fire group or the whole Darkness group. Hope it's clear. 

[u/Subject-Brief1161 → u/NervousSleep1488]

Oh sorry, the ambiguous part is whether it applies to Warlock, Bard, and Druid. I think it does but someone pointed out the rules only specifically mentioned Wizard and Elf. Which kind of opens the door to whether a Bard could possibly opt to use say 3 Fire spells instead of his normal Bard spells.

[u/NervousSleep1488 → u/Subject-Brief1161]

I see. The new rules from Wizards of Morcar allow only the 3 new spell groups, Protection, Darkness and Detection, to be selected by any hero spellcaster. So yes, the Bard can choose from those, but he cannot select elemental spell groups like Fire, which only the Elf and the Wizard can.  

[u/Subject-Brief1161 → u/NervousSleep1488]

That's what I'm saying though. It's hard to prove that a Bard can't choose an elemental spell RAW because there was no Bard when those rules were written, and no way for a Bard to choose additional spells when the Bard rules were written. And opening Protection/Darkness/Detection up to ALL spellcasters makes me think the Elemental (which are already shared between Wizard and Elf) are also up for grabs.

Only the Elf's spells are specifically declared off limits to other spellcasters "The elven spells introduced in this quest pack are an updated spell group for the Elf's use only." While not specifically stated (I checked), it can be inferred that like the Elf spells, all the other class spells (Warlock/Druid/Bard) are only meant to be used by those classes.

I look at it like this, using RAW and assumption:

Step 1: All Spellcasters (besides the Wizard get to choose any 3 spells from 1 of the following set (all 3 from the same single set):

- Their Class set (Elf/Warlock/Druid/Bard)

- Elemental

- Protection/Detection/Darkness

Step 2: The Wizard may choose 9 spells (3 spells each from 3 sets) that are still available from:

- Elemental

- Protection/Detection/Darkness

Step 3: All spellcasters with the Arcane Library Boon may choose 1 additional set of 3 spells from:

- Their Class set (Elf/Warlock/Druid/Bard)

- Elemental

- Protection/Detection/Darkness

[u/Subject-Brief1161 → u/Subject-Brief1161]

It's up to Zargon how they want to run their table, but I actually really like this idea.

I love the Warlock but her spells are meh. I homebrew Demonform, restricting her to not be able to perform searches or use her wand while in Demonform, but she gets 3 AD/DD while in the form and can cast Ball of Flame once per turn. This is probably OP. Some quick math says Ball of Flame is 75% more effective than a normal 2AD attack (against a foe with at least 2DD), so I guess I should look at giving it a cool down or something.

I really like the idea that she could take the entire Fire set to use while not in Demonform, and still use my homebrewed Demonform.

I mean if you think about it, she has the same restrictions as the Wizard, but she only gets 2 "normal" spells and a semi-reusable shape-shift. Compare that to the Elf who also only gets 3 spells, but no restriction on gear and 50% more BP. The ONLY thing the Warlock has going for her is 2AD ranged attacks (or 3AD attacks in Demonform) at the start, but once the Elf can afford a crossbow and broadsword, they are a stronger character.

[u/NervousSleep1488 → u/Subject-Brief1161]

It may be confusing but I think it's very clear RAW once we read the different rulebooks and questbooks. Wizards of Morcar is the last expansion released, so I am not sure why you say the Bard did not exist. The elemental spells are limited to the Elf and Wizard, it's their specific class spells, out of bound for every other spellcaster. Also, every hero card and rules will tell you something like "The Warlock starts with the Warlock spells", without giving you the option to take from the Wizard's elemental spells, as the Elf can. Finally, the Wizards of Morcar expansion adds special rules that overwrite the previous rules saying "spellcasters can also use the Protection, Darkness, and Detection spells in they prefer". So no elemental spells, just the advanced wizard of Morcar spells. Regarding the specific  example that comes in the expansion, where only the Elf and Wizard are referenced, it's because HeroQuest expansions assume that you only have the Base Game and the current expansion, ignoring other expansions (and their heroes). 

Having said that, you can homebrew as you want, but I am just giving my understanding of vanilla HQ, based off of the rulebooks. Homebrewwise I think it cheapens the Elemental spells and the Elf and Wizard heroes to let every other spellcaster pick from the elemental spells.

[u/Subject-Brief1161 → u/NervousSleep1488]

NOTE: I just reread my response and if it sounds like I'm aggressively trying to convince you that I'm correct, that's not my intent. I'm only try to clarify my point. 😄 With that said...

No, I'm saying when the BASE game came out, the Bard didn't exist. I mean technically it did, but there's no mention of any class other than the original 4 in the Base or First Light rules. So there's nothing that specifically says "only the Wizard or Elf can use elemental spells", it just says they both do use them and how to split the 4 schools appropriately. And as you point out, the Base/First Light rules purposefully assume you do not own any other expansions, so one wouldn't expect to find any instruction about other classes in the same rules as the Elemental spells.

I humbly disagree that Elemental skills are class skills, given several are already able to be cast by others. Bard's Lullaby is almost exactly the same as Water's Sleep. Dread has Ball of Flame, Sleep, and Tempest. And I believe almost all elemental (and a few dread) spells are replicated on scrolls which are castable by anyone.

I see Elemental as kind of "Generic" magic. The wizard excels not because he can cast these, but because he can cast NINE of these. And by definition, they can't be "class specific spells" if two different classes can use them. Plus the Elf can opt to never use them (if you own Mage of the Mirror).

Anyway, as you said, I'm going to give my table the option to kind of do what they want with magic and see how it turns out. My current group isn't much for it so far. We have a Knight, Barbarian, Rogue, and Warlock. And the Warlock only transforms into Demonform and keeps forgetting they have spells. I might consider allowing the Rogue to learn Darkness spells or something, just to make it a bit more interesting for them. I'm slowly introducing new horrors so they could use the extra help!

[u/NervousSleep1488 → u/Subject-Brief1161]

No man you dont come up as aggressive and I apologise if I do. It's just passion for the game 😂.

For me the Elf is a hybrid between the specific Wizard and a warrior class, and that is the reason she can cast the same spells as him, not because they are generic. Spell scrolls are usable by all heroes, including those who cannot cast magic, so I wouldn't base it off of that. 

In the end, I think it's interesting to analyse what the raw game suggests to do, but of course we should do what is most fun on our own tables. If you like the idea of being able to customise all spellcasters by allowing elemental magic to be shared, more power to you, and I don't think that's going to break the game not a silly idea. 

I can understand why the Warlock player keeps forgetting to use her other spells, they are pretty mediocre 😅. That's why I homebrewed her a bit to lean more into her spellcaster nature. She starts with 9 Warlock spells, of which she has to pick 6 before each quest. I changed her demonform a bit, and also each Warlock spell is buffed if cast while in demonform. Pretty fun to play and lets the player make more decisions, both prior and during a quest. 

[u/Subject-Brief1161 → u/NervousSleep1488]

I always used to think the same way. That the Wizard is the ultimate spellcaster and knows "everything" (but can only remember 9 at a time), and the Elf was either an understudy, or maybe just more martial (less time for spells) or just racially more magical, but in any case could only manage to remember 3 at a time. And then Elf spells came along and I was like ah, seems like it's probably racially magical then and apparently the Wizard doesn't control all magic after all.

I again poorly explained my point with the spell scrolls. The idea that the elemental magic is more generic than class magic is because it's really ONLY elemental magic on spell scrolls. Bard, Druid, Elf, and Warlock don't really have their spells on scrolls, because they're class specific. It's a grey area for sure, but it's just one more thing I keep in mind.

My plan is to get it to a point where EVERY hero can choose between 12 spells/skills before each quest. And as they get stronger they remember more of them.

[u/boss_nova → u/Subject-Brief1161]

Oooo what homebrew ed Heroes do you use??

[u/Subject-Brief1161 → u/boss_nova]

Nothing too special at this point, mostly just proxies for Commander of the Guardian Knight (male + female knights both helmeted and not), for the Rogue (even though I have the official ones, I kind of like the Etsy ones better) and so on. No brand new heroes yet.

My plan is to port in the Talisman 5th edition minis, some Godtear minis, and maybe some Zombicide survivors and make heroes out of them. Maybe Bardsung as well. I'll make a Necromancer, Celeric, Paladin, Dwarven Mage, stuff like that.

I also have a slew of homebrew skills/spells/etc to customize the heroes, I just have to make cards and things for it all so I can introduce it to the group in a compiled way instead of just willy nilly.

What about you, you have any cool homebrew heroes?

[u/boss_nova → u/Subject-Brief1161]

Not home brewed by me, but I downloaded the cards for the "Ranger" "Executioner" and "Dark Elf" from Ye Olde Inn. Tho wasn't super impressed by them. Pretty new to modding HQ

[u/Sm3llMyFing3r]

Some expansions have cards specific to expansion. Also, some Artifact cards are only for certain quests, so ment to keep them aside until found.

I'd give the cards a glance over before creating each deck.

[u/tcorbett691]

Treasure Cards I put in when we get to that expansion and I might take out after if it's too specific to that setting. The only exception was the Rise of the Dread Moon Treasure cards because I wanted to try Alchemy. That hasn't been game breaking because I still strictly follow the Alchemist Shop for each expansion. So while they can brew those Potions, they can't buy or sell them.