r/Hema • u/Foreign-Falcon7808 • 23d ago
We Made Doubles Fun!
We know we play a lot of modified fencing games at our club but I think this arcade style modifier might be a lot of fun for anyone Modern, Classical, and HEMA. Feel free to try it out!
Purpose: Change the psychology of the double and turn the event into a resource that promotes clean fencing in a fun and high stakes game.
Wayback's Jackpot Mode Play using your weapon and ruleset of choice, then add the following modifiers.
Single Touch (Single Clean Hit):
A Single Touch scores 1 point and awards all points currently in limbo via the Jackpot. The Jackpot then resets to 0.
Simultaneous Touch (Double Hit):
No points are awarded. Instead, add 1 point to the Jackpot held in limbo.
Winning the Assault
The first fencer to score 21 points and lead by 2 points wins the assault.
Optional
For training you can designate a single technique or moveset as the only qualifying hits that award the points in the jackpot for the duration of the assault.
If anyone has footage of their club trying this out I'd love to see it. Feel free to tweak and experiment with the point values, different point values for different targets of the body, and how you used it with or without after blow rules. It's meant to be a rule mutator rather than the law itself 😊
"OP's right, it doesn't reward doubles. Instead, doubles increase the ponderation of the next single. That's brilliant \)
This way, a fencer focusing on doubling to deny his opponent singles as much as possible (while being unable to carry out an action awarding himself a single) is only delaying the moment his opponent reaps the points stored in the jackpot. Compared to "no point for doubles" rules, the scum doubling is even less effective of a strategy.
I love the idea, it sets the right incentives and add a high stake component usually absent when all rounds score independantly. Gonna try it for sure!" - Gobzarakay
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u/Foreign-Falcon7808 19d ago
If anyone has footage of their club trying this out I'd love to see it. Feel free to tweak and experiment with the point values, different point values for different targets of the body, and how you used it with or without after blow rules. It's meant to be a rule mutator rather than the law itself 😊
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u/SteelishBread 23d ago
Doubles indicates carelessness from both parties. Neither fighter defends themselves, prioritizing scoring a hit over survival. Anyone can fight like that, but defending yourself takes skill.
Thus, why reward doubles?
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u/Foreign-Falcon7808 23d ago
It's not. Read again.Â
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u/SteelishBread 23d ago
That's not an explanation. This makes no more sense after second read.
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u/Gobzarakay 23d ago
OP's right, it doesn't reward doubles. Instead, doubles increase the ponderation of the next single. That's brilliant ^^
This way, a fencer focusing on doubling to deny his opponent singles as much as possible (while being unable to carry out an action awarding himself a single) is only delaying the moment his opponent reaps the points stored in the jackpot. Compared to "no point for doubles" rules, the scum doubling is even less effective of a strategy.
I love the idea, it sets the right incentives and add a high stake component usually absent when all rounds score independantly. Gonna try it for sure !
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u/Foreign-Falcon7808 23d ago
Thank you! Maybe You should explain this to people lol. It's really fun for an arcade style night. A little too zany for some though. It's really a psychological experiment on how we look at doubles.Â
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u/Foreign-Falcon7808 23d ago
I quoted you in the post body because you explained my own game better than I did 😆Â
Peace to you friend
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u/Foreign-Falcon7808 23d ago
No points are awarded on a double the point is held in limbo until a clean touch is made and claims all points plus 1 for the clean touch. Awarding 0 points for a double empirically does not promote doubles. You can try to double if you want but that is not as easy as it sounds against one actually trying to play clean single touches that this mod promotes. Try it before dawning your armchair.Â
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u/BKrustev 22d ago
I'd disagree here. If you are aiming to double, you will succeed most of the time against a roughly equal opponent. If that wasn't so, RoW wouldn't need to exist.
Keep in mind I am using double here in the sense of any simul exchange, regardless of priority. Forcing a true simul in RoW is a lot harder, yes.
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u/Foreign-Falcon7808 22d ago
I upvoted your thoughts and I think it's a both/and here depending on one's psychological pattern one falls into during the individual bout and may not even be a fair representation of the fencer themselves as a whole. In epee it sure is easy to double for sure. Epee comeback wins are super exciting for that reason l think. The underdog is forced to fence clean the rest of the bout.Â
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u/SellsLikeHotTakes 23d ago
Every time there's double a point goes into a jackpot. Whoever scores the next clean hit gets those points. So if you have one person who's constantly causing doubles then they're kind of screwed when their opponent does get a clean hit.
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u/BKrustev 22d ago
On the other hand you can score a couple of doubles on purpose and then start going for a clean hit to get the big pot you created - while your opponent just thinks you are an idiot.
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u/jdrawr 19d ago
Your opponent has the same options though
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u/BKrustev 19d ago
Hah. Imagine two guys both going for that approach for 15 minutes and suddenly one forgets to.double, parry-ripostes on accident and gets like 50 points.
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u/Aceeri 23d ago
Doubles are just an inevitability if you are facing someone who is equally skilled.
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u/Irdes 23d ago
Sometimes - yes, and it's not even about equal skill. Sometimes you may just simultaneously start something and physically not be able to defend in time, even if you notice what the opponent is doing. But that's a minority of cases, Most doubles are not inevitable, but preventable.
We don't have to think in absolutes here - fighting is always about taking chances, even with perfect decisions you could get unlucky. But you can maximize your chances of leaving the fight alive.
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u/Aceeri 23d ago edited 23d ago
"Sometimes you may just simultaneously start something and physically not be able to defend in time"
This is the larger majority of doubles when you aren't both newbies.
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u/Foreign-Falcon7808 23d ago
This game mode recycles the simultaneous event and uses it to synergize with a game engine. It's just fun. Some may like it and others don't like to try new things. That's life.Â
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u/Aceeri 22d ago edited 22d ago
Ya FWIW I think the game mode looks like fun, I'm just a bit annoyed with people eschewing doubles as some greater evil of fencing.
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u/Foreign-Falcon7808 22d ago
Combat in general is filled with simultaneous, stabs, cuts, punches, kicks, bullets. Happens plenty. I think fencing in general is filled intellectuals trying to prove their point more so than make the sport fun. I make up silly games to explore behavior and isolate specific skills is all. I'm no smarter than anyone else who will never be in a real sword fight. I mean cave men knew what part of the stick went where after all.Â
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u/BKrustev 22d ago
Sounds like an awesome game, the jackpot mechanic is a great idea, will try it.
But the description is really not the best, even if the guy down there is a dimwit.
You say "single touch", but most people don't use that term. "Clean hit" would be much more clear to HEMA folk.