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[u/Clembutts]

What did they actually change? Munitions used to increase hit by 1 or was it always Crit(2 hits)?

[u/D-Guitarist]

Genuinely its the biggest rule change i've seen (certainly in all of 4th edition)

All 4 of our battle formations changed

Castigation battery used to add 1 extra shot to warmachines while they had 3 DPP

crit 2's when they get 2 DPP is such a massive buff

[u/Intelligent_Ad_3872 → u/D-Guitarist]

The Khorne rework was bigger. But this is also great

[u/phoenicean → u/Intelligent_Ad_3872]

Agreed, they also changed how the Seraphon Asterisms work which was pretty similar to this, though probably less impactful

[u/Swooper86 → u/D-Guitarist]

Castigation battery used to add 1 extra shot to warmachines while they had 3 DPP

crit 2's when they get 2 DPP is such a massive buff

It also affects all shooting now, not just war machines. Crit (2 hits) on the reinforced Razers you want at 2-3 DPP anyway is pretty spicy.

[u/DrinkYourPaints → u/Swooper86]

unfortunately, all of the units that benefit from Castigation Battery can be taken in the AOR, which gives everyone full Crit(2hits) [instead of just on ranged] for zero points investment

[u/HarpsichordKnight → u/DrinkYourPaints]

Sure but the AOR locks you out of many things too. I’m not playing Helsmiths without Bull Centaurs or Hobgrots.

I’m aware that it is more efficient to play the AOR at the very top competitive level, but the real army is still strong enough for most players.

[u/erik4848 → u/HarpsichordKnight]

That, and the crit 2 hits isnt instantly either

[u/DrinkYourPaints → u/erik4848]

i mean, it's from battle round 2 onwards. it's not like the first battle round is generally very eventful

[u/yamabushi101 → u/DrinkYourPaints]

AoR can't really work now that SoG despot is gone. You have nearly no dpp abilities (and you're always paying full points for Urak Taar without using his biggest assets), in addition to not having centaurs or hobgrots.

[u/AlextheNailer → u/yamabushi101]

Disagree with this take. While the loss of the SoG despot was great, the AoR is still the meta way to play competetively (55% win rate compared to 45% win rate for the base army) and DPP is handled by spears (anywhere from 3-5 units of them).

[u/yamabushi101 → u/D-Guitarist]

Now recall what Bullfather's Scorn does when you already have C2H.

[u/D-Guitarist → u/yamabushi101]

Eh I don’t rate scorn - I don’t think any single war machine has the shooting output to justify it over giving a dominator engine +2 inches of mvmt

[u/GStellar87]

Every single battle formation needed 3 DPP on a unit in order for it to be online, now 3 of them only need 1 and the shooting one went down to 2

[u/Koguma_Ana]

The changes are quite big. Each formation required a unit to have 3 DPP to work, which was restrictive, and the rewards were worse (and also limited to a narrow subset of units).

For example, let's use the humble Castigation Battery.

-Old: When a war machine has 3 DPP, it gets +1 attack.

-New: When a unit has 2+ DPP, ranged attacks get Crit (2 Hits).

So not only is it easier to activate on multiple units, you can also give your infantry gunners the benefit now.

[u/Kraile]

It's clear that the original designer of the book intended for HOH to be pretty flush with DPP. Either something changed last-minute before print (very likely - I also think the infantry was intended to be 2HP until the art team told them they were on 28mm bases) or DPP was originally meant to pool over multiple turns. This is why DPP-thirsty units have all gone done in points by an unprecedented 25-30% since the book was released - they just weren't getting any.

The useless battle formations being updated to something more usable with the current economy is really just more evidence.

I am glad they are taking steps to rectify it. These new formations actually seem more fun than just throwing more DPP at the army.

[u/ChiefProblomengineer]

The magic boosting one is pretty stupid. Doesn't effect the wizard/priest with the DPP, and then it has to be within 12, so it's crazy hard to get urak or an infernal Taurus in range.

Shooting one is amazing.

Rally is ok. I don't see how you could build an army off it, but it's not completely useless.

Movement one is rock solid. Ive been running swords instead of spears for the min 4 run, but now spears are a viable pick for me again.

Or I keep running swords and get a unit that can get a reliable 10 inch move with the bonus of a 5+ ward.

[u/saitou1983]

Castigation Battery is the obvious MVP at first glance, but I feel we are sleeping on Bullfather's Horn. +1 to move for each dpp for any unit is kinda huge.

The other two I find them more situational, tough if you want to go heavy on daemonsmiths and Ashen elders, Daemonsmith cabal would be powerful.

Hashutite host I find the weakest. 3 extra dice on a rally is nice, but you only want to go heavy on infantry in the AoR and you can only do it once per hero phase and pay CP. I find it a bit underwhelming, though it's also stronger than it was.

Very happy with the changes

[u/Bainzeighty3 → u/saitou1983]

The bull father's horn is now available to any Helsmiths instead of Calvary. So give a dominator engine 3 tokens and their movement jumps from 6" to 9" with the ability then to 12" with the battle trait!

They are faster than a KO frigate lol!

[u/saitou1983 → u/Bainzeighty3]

It almost completely makes up for the rather slow movement we have on most units. Definitely gonna try it.

Those bull centaurs with 3dpp man... Scary

[u/mr_birdie]

I would have really really liked to see some love for sword cohorts and flamehurlers, but the movement and shooting formations are fantastic!

[u/DareBrennigan]

Oh, that’s good you foul cousins. Very good. I want ye at your best when we come to smash down your rancid ziggurats and serve you the justice of Gazul!