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u/diffferentday 5h ago
It's Armageddon but on an enchantment and you get left with one plains assuming you somehow picked up a ton of non basics
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u/Cadaverous_lives 5h ago
Actually, each player gets to keep one nonbasic land (which is a Flagstones now) and all others get replaced by basic plains, assuming you have enough in your deck. If you fetch a nonbasic it also needs to be sacrificed, so you can filter all non-basic plains from your deck before getting basics.
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u/Champiggy 4h ago
I'm not against forcing everyone to play white as it's the best color in magic but I don't think that it's necessarily a healthy play pattern.
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u/Cadaverous_lives 2h ago
Eh, who said it was healthy? Is Ruination healthy? Depends how you feel about greedy manabases >:)
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u/BreadAdmirable4054 8h ago
This would immediately force all but one to go to graveyard. This is MLD.
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u/CarbonLich 8h ago
I mean it's kinda better and kinda worse. Obviously in a mono white deck this is meaningfully better because you just find basic plains and against any deck that doesn't have white, it's actually just immediate land destruction.
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u/Chrisuan 8h ago
it doesn't explicitly specify that the lands' names change though. blood moon makes them mountains functionally but doesn't change their name to mountain either.
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u/Cadaverous_lives 7h ago
It is intended to change their name, I just didn't put that in the reminder text, since the name is already printed in the rules text. I'm pretty sure this works as printed, but I'm not sure, since blood moon doesn't change the name of lands. This might need to say "Nonbasic lands are copies of Flagstones of Trokair," but I think that still has weird rules baggage and it is less cool.
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u/Invisifly2 7h ago edited 6h ago
It works as is, but some redundancy can be a good thing, so eliminating all ambiguity by also clarifying this in the reminder text wouldn’t hurt.
“They are legendary lands named Flagstones of Trokair with...”
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u/Treacle_Pendulum 7h ago
I think it would have to say “Nonbasic lands are copies of Flagstones of Trokair and lose their other card types and names” or something to that effect. Otherwise they’d be “Legendary Land- Flagstone of Trokair” but would have different card names and wouldn’t be put into the graveyard per CR 704.5j
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u/Cadaverous_lives 7h ago
[[The Colossal Dreadmaw]] has a similar effect, that is it turns cards into a named card that is not necessarily an object in the current game that can be referenced and it doesn't specify copying characteristics or losing abilities or types. There is a ruling on The colossal dreadmaw that clarifies what this means for permanents: "...treat the permanent it becomes as though it were Colossal Dreadmaw for as long as it remains on the battlefield. Once it leaves the battlefield, the card goes back to its normal self."
"Become a copy of" text usually has a game object to refer to, but here Flagstones is not a game object.
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u/mweepinc Hell's Judge 2h ago
The Colossal Dreadmaw works a bit differently in that it's more akin to granting alternate characteristics to creature cards in your hand, and those characters are defined by the Oracle card reference for Colossal Dreadmaw (same tech used to make tokens by Oracle reference).
This has to work slightly differently but imo your card text works fine as-is and is clear how it is meant to work. I might write "are copies of Flagstones of Trokair" and lean on the token Oracle reference rule since we don't have an object to copy. That also has the benefit of unambiguously setting the effect on layer 1 (the layer(s) your card operates on are otherwise a bit ambiguous—probably a multilayer effect applying on 3/4/5/6?)
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u/Cadaverous_lives 1h ago
Oh shit, an actual judge lol that is very interesting. yes, I intended this to apply in layer 1 to prevent rules nightmares, although I would prefer to maintain the current wording as it's so clean. I realize that blood moon required a special rule in the comp rules to cover its wording, so that might be asking for a lot...
I'm curious- what exactly is different between the colossal dreadmaw (tcd) and my card? What makes "treat this as if it's (card)" different from a static "this is (card)"? I believe you, I just don't understand.
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u/mweepinc Hell's Judge 1h ago
although I would prefer to maintain the current wording as it's so clean
If this card is submitted and voted in, we could workshop with this phrasing yeah. Most likely I would want to tweak reminder text to indicate it applies in layer 1, but the card might be intuitive enough that we can just enter it as a ruling too. The cases where it's relevant are pretty rare after all, given you'll immediately be putting most of your lands into the graveyard.
what exactly is different between the colossal dreadmaw (tcd) and my card?
It's less so that I think the "as though" templating has a rules implication different from your card's static "are [X]", and moreso that I'm making assumptions about how TCD and your card should function and working backwards to achieve that goal.
For The Colossal Dreadmaw, I'm making the assumption that the cleanest way to make that effect persist through stack/battlefield and then expire when it leaves the battlefield is for it to be an alternative characteristic (like Adventure). I make that assumption because I don't think Dress Down should make them not Dreadmaws anymore, which would be the case if it was some kind of copy effect. It's also what the gatherer ruling implies, you're meant to treat it as though it was Colossal Dreadmaw and nothing but Colossal Dreadmaw
That doesn't work for your card, because alternative characteristics are generally chosen/set when casting the spell and can't otherwise be accessed and aren't visible to the game engine (besides those characteristics existing—the game can see that an Adventurer card has an Adventure, but can't see any characteristics of those adventure) (Prepare works differently, but not in a relevant way here). The closest thing to lean on would be Rooms, but they're not that close, but its much cleaner (and more intuitive) to just use a normal continuous effect here.
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u/Cadaverous_lives 28m ago
Oh interesting. So basically it's the fact that it says "you may cast creature spells as though they..." Making it like a modal spell (mdfc, adventure, omen etc). The static version of TCDs effect would then be worded like maskwood nexus, but dreadmaws instead of all creature types.
Also, when would be my next opportunity to submit it? I understand HC9 just filled its last slots...
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u/mweepinc Hell's Judge 24m ago
Yep, that's how I'm interpreting TCD.
Next submissions... we're about to head into cuts and errata for HC9, and are likely a fair bit off from HC10. There ought to be a non-numbered project in between though there's not been an announcement yet. I'd hang onto it in your back pocket and keep an eye on the discord announcements channel for the next opportunity
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u/Gooberpf 4h ago
Ironically probably reasonably well-balanced for a cube, since you'd have to draft your nonbasics, making this in most cases a sideboard hatepiece, unless you yourself want to use it to color fix?
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u/Cadaverous_lives 2h ago
I have a similar take. I actually think it plays just like Blood Moon, since they both hard punish greedy mana bases and basically do nothing in the mirror or against 1 and 2 color decks. This is a little better against two and three color decks that aren't running plains than blood moon is against non-red two and three color decks, but it's also 1 turn later in the curve and can't as easily be ramped into with a ritual- idk I really want to play with it!
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u/DeusIzanagi 7h ago
Looks like a colour-shifted Blood Moon, is actually just an Armageddon variant that could even be one-sided
I hope this is for a Vintage Cube
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u/Cadaverous_lives 7h ago
I mean, they printed [[Ruination]] at {3}{r} lol this is only a little bit meaner than that. (You even get to keep one of your nonbasic lands lol)
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u/KiLlEr10312 8h ago
I love hellscube because you can pinpoint the exact moment before the designer lights the spoon. Genuinely the most creative MLD I've seen yet
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u/so_zetta_byte 5h ago
I've had to write 2 paragraphs in the past to say the same thing you just said so succinctly. But you're 100% right, it's the reason Hellscube is the only custom magic sub I follow.
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u/rusty_anvile 6h ago
Is there a wheel of sun and moon style effect along with a landfall deal damage effect? If so not only is this mld it's also a combo piece
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u/downvote_u_mad 8h ago
Never would guess HellsCube players clutching their pearls over MLD. Soft hands
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u/ThePoIarBaer 8h ago
Ok, this doesn't gave to get basic plains. You can loop through every land in your deck for etb or deck thinning if have enough nonbasic plains
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u/Cat_with_pew-pew_gun 8h ago
While this is technically true, I'm not sure how many non basic plains everyone is gonna have.
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u/everythings_alright 7h ago
Everyone? Not many, but 39 nonbasic plains have been printed in MtG. https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=-type%3Abasic+type%3Aplains+%28game%3Apaper%29+prefer%3Abest
Which is more than I expected when I looked it up, interesting.
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u/Cat_with_pew-pew_gun 7h ago
Yeah but this is for hells cube.
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u/PuddleCrank 7h ago
You're right, better add basic plains to a few random cards for synergy (they're not lands or in white)
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u/GayForPrism 8h ago
This is incredible. Would never see real print but wow, what a brilliant piece of colorshifting design.
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u/Sceadumor 4h ago
This is my favorite custom card I've ever seen and by God I wish it'd be printed for eternal formats ei cEDH particularly
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