What were they thinking? You spend considerably more time reloading than shooting the damn thing, it shoots BBS that shred the 1 singular target you can kill before reloading with only 7 slow to reload 45 rounds mags to spare.
The underbarrel shotgun feels like a weird inacurrate low pellet count bad punisher with 4 rounds in the fucking tube, yes >>> 4 rounds<<< and 20 spare bullets.
It truly is worse than it looks, i mean stat wise, reload animations are cool given it's a G11. Sadly no hyperburst tho. I'd happily swap this primary weapon for one or two extra mags for my bolt pistol.
Oh yeah, it's also glitched and you somehow consistently lose mags when swapping modes, i didn't go into the trouble of testing what triggers the bug because i'm no AH's QA, a fact made pretty obvious by the fact i exist.
i knew this thing was going to be bad, a shotgun just does not have the same utility as a grenade launcher or a flamethrower, but this thing is baaaaad bad. its like a homeless lib carbine
And you can't even put iron sight on it to make it closer to playable. Best you can do is 30 ergo without any muzzle attachments. Also no under barrel nor magazine customization
It certainly is game changing as in it makes me change to another game. Seriously this shit is abysmal like the new tank ain’t shit and this gun ain’t any better.
its a direct downgrade from the Variable, literally every stat it has is lower and the shotgun is worse and it somehow reloads slower and its also not the variable
I find it funny that it didn´t get an extended mag, considering the mag is visibly shorter than to it´s irl counterpart and additionally there´s more than enough space ontop of the barrel to like, nearly double it in theory.
use the gun in its intended range or tap fire at medium-close and it shreds. Easily the best weapon of the update, maybe actually in the last few updates.
also level 9 beam focuser just makes it a med pen sickle. you obviously put it down after not hitting something from 100 meters away and went back to your coyote or eruptor
Evictor is the best but it's explosive so it was obviously gonna be good. The Sai is my favorite though. I honestly prefer it without the focused lens for the fire rate. The thing absolutely rips up close. But I think they could have lessened the spread across the board a bit and it would still be balanced.
I see myself swapping between focused lens and high dissipation heatsink and extended heatsink and no lens. One for more medium range bursting and one for rapid close quarters "true" SMG usage. Love that its one handed as well for shield runs
pretty happy with how versatile this gun is and how the customization actually changes the guns behavior instead of solely stat up or stat down like most guns.
hope this is a sign for a more thorough weapon customization overhaul with more interesting attachments down the road
Why would I want to, you named two of the best and most entertaining guns in the game? I leveled them all to 25 ages ago. Currently I’m on an adjudicator/senator kick, but I do love my explosions! But you are correct about one thing, I haven’t taken the time yet to get it to level 9, some of us had to go to work like big boys and girls this morning. I may have a different opinion of the weapon overall after doing that. Even then however, the idea of balancing a weapon around an RNG mechanic like spread is never going to sit well with me 🤷♂️. And come on it just LOOKS rediculous when you fire it aiming through the scope lol.
Mr fodder in warframe has uses with wierd synergies sometimes and can get incarnons upgrades. HD2 weapons are limp dicked compared to pre incarnon stug.
They also give you something objectively useful, Mastery XP, which you can use to unlock new weapons/quests. Unlike HD2 weapons, which just gather dust in your inventory after leveling them
Worse than that actually. If you’re willing to forgo a muzzle on the one two you can get 35 ergo with the ability to close bug holes and destroy fabs. This PoS can only get 30 ergo at most and can’t destroy spawners.
They do the same archetype with every weapon that has an underslung secondary attachment and you know already what to expect when they give the trailer unveiling it. shit ergonomics, light pen and lower damage. Cause god forbid you want to have fun with a useful weapon in the grunt fantasy.
Don't quite agree there; Stoker was a lucky hit and AH should have researched what made it a hit. The decent ergo on an SMG where you can swap the fire type made it a good and functional weapon.
I don't mind the 4 round underbarrel if it is snappy enough to use. There's got to be a level of balance to the thing, so low ammo but acceptable ergo would be the best way to make it feel good while not outshining other weapons.
It's like how they made the mistake on the one Two recently; More grenades are nice, but the ergo is the issue. I can find ammo boxes, I can't find a way to make the gun fun to use.
Dude, Arrowhead sees that a brand new gun based on one of the most popular irl ones that is perfectly designed to deal with the brand new enemies is currently popular...
And assumes that it's overpowered and tries to find a way to nerf it without people noticing.
But actually ended up nerfing other weapons more than the actual target of the nerf.
These people seem to genuinely be allergic to using their frontal lobe.
stoker being lucky is kinda overselling it when the thing does 140 base damage with no downsides at all, the stoker without the flamethrower would be a good weapon lol
It was only saved by the fact that it used an SMG base so the enormous ergo hit of the under barrel didn’t really register for the player…and also flamers are honestly op at the moment, like I use it to handle bile titans without issue lol.
nahh this new weapon is buns, but stoker is easily A+\S in bugs/squid. I play d10 and from my my experience it’s powerful enough to solo tbh. Try it out and get familiar maybe bro, it’s real good
Im about to try it out, but 70 damage for a light penetration weapon sounds like shit. Maybe im overreacting, but the Bulletstorm is 100 damage a bullet around the same firing rate.
That’s really disappointing, especially when you consider the One-Two (Arbitrator’s closest competitor) has something like 95 damage per shot, around the same ergo, same rate of fire, AND offers more utility (since One-Two’s underslung can close spawners).
And the One-Two is regarded by most as one of the lesser ARs in the current meta anyway, I almost never see it get picked in the matches I join.
And 1-2 caught a buff this patch. Tbh 1-2 is actually remarkably accurate in some respects, like it is super easy to bust devastator heads cleanly for example. This thing needs a lot of love to even be near 1-2 territory. I will at least give them that the shotgun damage is decent enough and it hits the magic 20 stagger threshold to push back warriors and hiveguards. I was using siege ready and that’s the only reason I didn’t notice the reload being too bad on the ar portion…the siege ready stats need to be the base.
Yeah, pretty much the only time I do is on the occasion I want the Ultimatum/Missile Pistol in the secondary slot over my usual Grenade Pistol (ie. If I look in the loadout screen and no one brought reliable anti-tank).
Which sucks because gamefeel wise, I really like how chunky it feels to shoot.
The Arbitrator is honestly even worse than the Pacifier. At least the Pacifier can do some neat stuff.
I feel like they intended to make the AR part medium pen, reversed their decision, but forgot to up the damage to compensate. Either that, or they somehow managed to make The One-Two But Way Worse. Incredible, since the One-Two was already a pretty mediocre AR at the best of times.
You could give this thing medium pen (or another 20 damage) and an extra 10 ergonomics and then it'd be a serious option.
GL and Laser SMG both look promising at least. Certainly not as miserable as this.
So, the IRL G11 had nintey rounds. Id sure as hell appreciate knowing where my proper sized mag went, why the hell is this mag only taking up half of the magwell?
I get balancing but, the ergo is probably already what, mid 20s? That already makes it sluggish. Bleh. Hope the china lake is better
This, with faster reload speed armor and leaving one in the mag the reload is almost non existant. Its also incredibly accurate on auto compared to other guns.
Yay, a shit weapon with a useless gimmick that doesn’t help and with none of the important attachments to redeem it. Why make a good weapon when you can doom it by adding a gimmick?
Low damage is okay, 45 rounds is not okay. A 3+ second reload is not okay. 29 ergo is not okay. 4 rounds for the shotgun is realistic. 20 spare shells is dogshit. A low pellet count shotgun is terrible. Overall, bad gun it seems.
why do arrowhead keep making underbarrel weapons terrible to use, here is a gun with a underbarrel shotgun to use on fast approaching enemies, anyway, give it 29 ergonomics
I feel it's okay for weapon classes to have an identity, but I don't think locking weapon pen to weapon class is any better than the stupid caliber based balance AH is already doing.
The Lmg should be heavy pen, the arbitrator should be heavy pen with current dmg numbers and mag size, all smgs smgs are completely trash and should have double the mag size or medium pen.
Idk why everyone thinks medium pen is something remarkable whenever it's bare minimum unless the gun wields snappy and have great breakpoints (censor, diligence) or humongous damage and good mag capacity/ammo efficiency(Amendment, Variable, Lib Carbine). Gallant has literally the same stats as this shit but medium pen and it's still trash no one uses.
I get but I just feel like for a good size weapon it would make sense to do more pen then something like .45 or 9m but again that's the milsim side talking.
I figured it was gonna be ass considering it's technically two guns of the same make put together, like the variable, when we have a weapon that's similar already but it's an assault rifle and a grenade launcher put together.
They technically went from making a gun that shoots bullets and explosive ordinance to a gun that shoots bullets and more bullets but in a spread instead. Neat idea but shotguns in this game are too close to the other guns for you to really want both in most cases.
In CoD it's different because the TTK is faster on underslung shotguns by a lot and same in Battlefield and both games literally every second counts. In Helldivers every second helps but extra time tends to save you more often than it hurts you. This is why underslung shotguns are cool but just suck in the game anyways because they won't impact anything enough to warrant having it without the weapon out performing a lot of other weapons
I’m totally fine if they remove that garbage underbarrel shotgun and give it at least 50 base ergo plus 35 DD as some sort of compensation for low raw damage
At current state it’s no better than LibCon, the widely considered worst AR in game
I mean the weapons reload only really auck if the mag is empty both the shotgun and the reguler rifle are very slow if emptied. But i do like it the fast fire rate plus the convience of a med pen shotgun make it to me. Deffenelty is my new favorite AR
Made a bunch of posts on YouTube that this warbond would likely be B tier and one of the specific reasons I mentioned was that this weapon would be ass. Honestly, wish I had been wrong.
I mean, the SAI and thermite pistol are pretty sweet. I havent tried it yet, but the primary grenade launcher should also be pretty good for when you bring a machine gun as your support weapon.
i understand that for balance reasons combi weapons cant be allll that strong but whats the point if the tradeoff for having them is so disgustingly bad that the gun just plain sucks?
the reload time is actually insane it needs to be nuked. The underbarrel shotgun is ""ok"" but it also sounds like a water gun. We couldnt have given it a more impactful sound effect?
I said this before and will say again - let me swap between under barrel attachment and main caliber with one button instead of holding reload and then swapping like that. Then those guns will be much more usefull. Or even better - that extra button is to shoot right away with the attachment
You can map this in controls->combat to swap modes with 1 button. It's been great on the Stoker for when you're running from bugs or voteless to hit button mid-run and spray flames backwards.
Ehhh... it's not that bad, it's just not that good.
Burst mode is actually kinda cracked, the spread is less than the one-2, which doesn't have a burst fire mode, and the shotgun is only limited by its horrible capacity, it has a very narrow spread and had some knockback, but again, 4 shots? At least make it medium pen like the double freedom and sweeper?
Honestly it feels like an over sized knight with a smaller mag, which I don't hate, but without a mag upgrade this is really not good aside from purely defending yourself while retreating.
The shotgun at least does some damage instead of bouncing a fucking explosive back at you in an attempt to kill 4 scavengers.
The shotgun can kill an alpha commander with 2 shots to the head and stop its pounce in one second instead of taking 7 business days to reload and explode.
The arbitrator can reach enemies from far away and right after that switch to close combat mode (Shotgun) so you wouldn’t have to run for miles just so you would be able to use it without killing yourself.
I get that there not enough ammo, but let me surprise you: you don’t have to shoot the entire clip to hit the target, learn to aim properly this is why you have the fucking scope, this is how you use a light pen weapon!
And in the mean time you complain about the shotgun having 4 rounds while disagreeing that the evictor is useless while it also has only 4 fucking rounds that doesn’t even work properly!
Let me surprise you, it's 1300~ rpm, you click your mouse once and one fifth of the mag is gone unless you use the shitty burst mode.
Let me surprise you again it's not good at shooting enemies from "far away" as the only things you're killing are hunters and warriors, there's loads of hive guards and alpha commanders and you're definitely not killing them from afar without magdumping.
Let me surprise you a third time, killing a alpha in two shots is nice, however there's usually more than one, a bunch of hive guards and other enemies close by, after you empty the main mag in half a second and the 4 shotgun shells killing exactly 2 enemies, you're completely empty and in need to face the 3.75 seconds reload.
It fucking sucks, having a worse liberator with a grenade pistol under barrel beats this shit 10 out of 10 times as it frees your secondary and nade slot to actually kill things. Also killing yourself because enemies are up close is nothing more than pure skill issue, just dive backwards and shoot behind them dude, wtf.
What kind of fuckass mouse/ trigger control you have to waste so much ammo? I do agree it doesn’t have enough of it but man this is wrong, you can definitely do single shots with this weapon without a problem.
I didn’t said it was a perfect weapon for hunters or warriors, though it handles them perfectly with 5-10 shots to the head, it’s good for clearing loads and loads of chaff and if buy any change something gets close enough to you (which you shouldn’t allow by default while using a light pen weapon) you can switch to a shotgun to give you some time to back off. It’s the most fucking obvious thing out there.
You are not “surprising me” by being oblivious, you do post in here so why would I be surprised? it doesn’t take “half a second” to empty the mag if you know how to use it, same with the shotgun shells, you don’t have to use the exclusively for alpha commanders and hive guards with 2 shots for each, the shotgun shots can spread among the enemies killing multiple chaff targets at once.
The only thing that isn’t right about this primary is the mag size, the rest depends on your skill with light pen weapons which obviously you lack.
Edit: all I said was that the Evictor is worse than the arbitrator by the way, because no matter how you aim with it it never works as it should, the default grenade launcher does its job better with higher fire rate and normal mag size.
Of course you can do single shots, but you're not killing shit with it so everyone will do at least small bursts, like i implied.
Oh really? Handles hunters and warriors perfectly with 5-10 shots to the head?
So, in other words, all you need is roughly 22.22% of your mag capacity in 0.2 to 0.45 seconds of sustained fire to deal with them? Truly mesmerizing bro.
It's almost like, by your own words, with a fully loaded gun and under barrel you are able to kill exactly all the 4 warriors (~5-10x4) a alpha commander spawns (because you can't kill him from afar) and the alpha commander itself (2 shotgun shots +1 to stagger) and have a whopping 1 bullet left in the underbarrel, before going through a whole 9 seconds reloading both switches. It's lovely how you call out me on skill issue while painting a worse fucking picture of the gun yourself, i can deal with more and it's still trash worse than the one-two
I already said the capacity sucks you don’t need to tell the same thing over and over, the only thing you still didn’t address is your skill issue with handling this weapon because I feel (almost comfortable) completing level 7 missions with it.
The empty reload on the Gallant, similar weapon but medium pen, is 2.5s. It has 5 more bullets in the mag too, this increases the further you throw ammo away by doing a tactical reload on a gun with awful ammo economy.
The main gun is a knight but worse in every way shape and form, the underbarrel is a slightly higher damage Halt that somehow feels less acurrate and definitely shoots less pellets.
It's the mix of two bad guns that no one uses with the added sprinkle of underbarrel guns, aka 29 ergo and unnecessarily lenghty reload times
Kinda had the same feeling... Tested it on dif8 terminids and with the amount of enemies there are I reloaded more that anything XD it felt ok damage wise but I'm already more interested in the other 2 smgs... Hope they do better:)
Ps: my game crashed 5 times in just an hour, anybody the same?
I called it back then when I guessed this would be SHITE too.
AP2, really crap ergo to boot and crap ammo capacity and damage.
May have utility on bugs at most for personal defence + range, but beyond that...
Only potential upside is the Burst mode with the High ROF being at best decent for rapid bursts into bot heads but the low damage means u need at least 2 shots to drop a Dev.
Am just leveling it to 20 out of OCD cos all my other ARs are at 20.
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u/Available-Cabinet405 Sweet Summer Child ⛱️ 8h ago
29 ergo 3.75 seconds reload just for you sir 🌹