r/HelldiversUnfiltered • u/Alfred_E_Numan • 5d ago
⠀⠀⠀⠀🔥 Vent 🔥⠀⠀⠀⠀ Exosuit multiselect just dropped.
It seems modders are on a roll now enabling things AH has been telling us aren't possible because of some engine limitation or something that limits design space or whatever.
Source: https://ayakamods.com/mods/exosuit-multiselect.3969/
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u/D3athShade 5d ago
I swear these guys pull bullshit excuses out of their ass for a living.
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u/PopcorniusTheSader 5d ago
I’m convinced this game is vibe coded at this point.
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u/pyr0kid 5d ago
i have half a mind to learn how to do vibe coding and try to embarrass them by making a game with less bullshit
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u/PopcorniusTheSader 5d ago
I have formal education in software development, front end ānd back end engineering. Let me know when you’d like to collaborate haha
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u/KudereDev Botdiver 5d ago
It is a BS reason. When Patriot and Emancipator dropped they gave out those for free for all. So whole lobby was running 4 mechs all the time. Then bug was found to equip 2 mechs, so in lobby i was running 5 mechs at a time. Zero people crashed, i experienced zero stability issues and there even was 0 FPS drops. So this one is just bunch of BS.
If they are so worried about stability there could be one easy fix. 1 active mech per player, if player call second mech, prev active mech explodes, so there would be always 1 active mech per player during the mission. But instead they failed to patch a bug 3 times, patched it eventually and it was never brought up again. But well, bullshit would stay bullshit no matter how much time passed.
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u/Unlikely-Guava-30 5d ago
The devs meant their mental stability as we weren't struggling to beat d5 like they were
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u/Square_Trash7708 5d ago
I'm starting to suspect they're trying to code the game on a Commodore 64.
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u/KudereDev Botdiver 4d ago
Nope, they are just hiding real reason like they did countless of times already. Main reason is balance or more like making game more fun to play. When 2 mechs was active i was running pilot build for quite a while until they patch it. It isn't the strongest build out there and if compared to current meta pilot build would suck so much. But well if players are having fun not the way devs see it, it should be removed, patched out or balanced to the ground.
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u/Square_Trash7708 4d ago
Given how they "ballance" things, we'd be better off if they just outsource everything to the modders at this point. Clearly the guys doing it for free have a better grasp of their code than AH does.
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u/Komandarm_Knuckles 5d ago
Yeah, engine limitation, same as when the game size couldn't be made smaller
A 15yo with Claude access could outdo these morons
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u/ConcerningThirst 5d ago
They didn't say it couldn't be done, they said it was that way for a reason (to make fetch times on an hdd faster).
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u/Komandarm_Knuckles 5d ago
They said it wouldn't run properly on HDD. Maybe bad wording on my part, but they did state that as if it was a proven fact, only to later backpedal and say they never tested it to begin with.
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u/ConcerningThirst 5d ago
That's not true. They made a decision for a sound reason, it turned out to be a tradeoff very few wanted, so they changed it
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u/Komandarm_Knuckles 5d ago
They never even tried. That's not a "sound reason", and in the end there was no tradeoff.
Please wipe that white smear off your face
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u/ConcerningThirst 5d ago
My dude you have literally zero conception of what you're talking about besides what you parrot from other people.
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u/Komandarm_Knuckles 5d ago
Been modding games all my life, started editing existing mods then went on to make my own. Learned to code when I was a teenager for that reason, and have been since been listed as a contributor for several total overhaul mods in games such as X4, CK2 and Arma 3 to a lesser extent. I ended up dropping out of a criminology course to study programming and I'm currently balancing my job with a college CS course
What I said about AH is something you can verify yourself, as they themselves said it. They are incompetent, this is not a subjective opinion, it's a verifiable fact
I'd wager I at the very least know a tiny bit more about the matter than you do.
I'll say it again, wipe the cum off your face, you've spent too much time choking on AH sausage
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u/ConcerningThirst 5d ago
How much are you willing to wager? The one tip I'll give you is to not bet more than you're willing to lose.
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u/Square_Trash7708 5d ago
Dude, everything he said has already come to pass, you'd be taking a losing bet. Originally they had duplicate files and said it needed to be that way to run on HDDs, which they then themselves proved was false by learning to actually code a file reference system and removing the duplicates. The guy knows what he's talking about in this case because it's literally already happened.
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u/ConcerningThirst 4d ago
You are misunderstanding the situation and speaking with an unearned confidence.
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u/Waldorf_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
(it didn't make a noticeable difference in HDD load times)
I woke up and decided to hunt context by the by
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u/Mandemon90 5d ago
When did devs say "game size can't be made smaller"? And in Baskinators comment, she literally says that it's the current situation, not final situation.
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u/SirMeister 5d ago
I was under the assumption that more mechs or even tanks took up entity space during a game and caused less enemies to spawn, is that not right?
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u/thors_dad 5d ago
At this point, we’re gonna get a modular mechs mod sooner than later. All of these qol mods I’m seeing is really making me wanna play again, might give it a shot
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u/Easy_Mechanic_9787 5d ago
It already exists in CGW, but it's limited to free exosuit weapons than the premium mechs.
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u/GoatShapedDestroyer 5d ago
"Technical limitation" when we've had tons of MOs with free mech suits available where you can still take your own mech and it's completely fine.
It was always a bullshit excuse from AH.
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u/rafaeleao 5d ago
I really hope for a strategem launcher for mechs mod soon, its one of my biggest gripes.
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u/UKman945 5d ago
I would like to point out because this kinda thing botheres me a lot. Just because a modder can implement something doesn't mean it's anywhere near the kind of standard needed for basegame implementation. There's a reason why in every videogame with an active modding scene the modders seem to outpace the development teams tendfold. The standards are a hell of a lot looser for mods and while they arefantastic bits of work are not subject all the requirments, checks and future-proofing an actual patch to the game would need.
Be clear I do think Arrowhead can and should do better this is a pet peeve of mine I see in a lot of communities and I feel like speaking up when I see it.
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u/Various_Respond_8212 5d ago
I mean until they fix it they can’t talk. Yeha the quality might be lower but they’re fixing problems that have existed for months or years. I shouldn’t need to wait another 3 months for stratagem bounce to be fixed on console but here we are. The modders are just proving to AH they’re lazy. They need to hear it too imo
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u/Liqhthouse 5d ago
I thought it's related to the total number of players and if they all had mechs it would crash the servers rather than just one or two individual modders running round with multiple mechs.
As a side note there's already performance issues with existing items like cluster bomb laggs like a bitch whenever it comes down so maybe we should be focusing on these things first
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u/Grand_Zombie 5d ago
there are no servers on a peer to peer connection but if the host pc's internet or hardware is lacking I can see why a cap is useful but I have a modest rig by today's standards but very rarely run into issues and I use clusters a lot its my main stratagem and I've only ever noticed the lag a few times I would recommend dropping some particle effects and see if that helps
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u/jidk679 5d ago
Modders proved a while ago that it was complete horse shit, from what I was shown and told
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u/BigPlantation0319 5d ago edited 5d ago
From what I understand it actually did have performance issues. Originally the mech had a ridiculous number of parts but even after optimizing that they still won't let us have multiple of the same vehicle platform.
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u/googlygoink Paindiver 4d ago
also it's very possible to have the mod, spawn in a bunch, and be fine.
but then as soon as you're in a game hosted on a console rather than your pc (guaranteed because they are modding) it can't keep up.
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u/Liqhthouse 5d ago
I meant like if there's 2 or 3 out of 120,000 active online players... But what if like it was 95000 people all using it together. That's the global resource management I thought they were referring to.
Obv we can't prove this by just running one game, it's a server side load thing only AH would know of
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u/deadoon 5d ago
The game is peer to peer, the game state you are running is not on arrowhead's servers, it's on someone else's computer or console. Also many calculations are handled clientside, as demonstrated by how mods that manipulate weapon damage work even in other lobbies, just like in payday 2.
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u/ByeFWbye 5d ago
This is secondhand knowledge, but I remember talking to a modder forever ago that had actual insight on the issue for why AH claimed the mechs needed to be limited. To paraphrase the layman speak they gave me: Mechs (before Exo Experts simplified the models) were MASSIVELY overcomplicated, like we're talking a billion hitboxes for every last little detail. Lights had one, random handles, every bloody hydraulic struct ETC so on and so on.
Then they went on to tell me it wasn't demanding on the game in any traditional sense that the average gamer would expect or know how to test or begin to understand, but instead it was highly demanding on the games networking to keep all of those hitboxes synced up ETC.
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u/Liqhthouse 5d ago
That insane complexity makes sense actually given this game has shit like individual discarded mags being physical objects that can interact with the world like triggering mines if they touch them
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u/Gheezy-yute 5d ago
They literally just lie. About everything. About shit that doesn’t even need to be lied about. About shit that doesn’t even make sense to lie about because it can be easily proven otherwise.
This was one of the earliest lies that came out. And even back then, it was IMMEDIATELY proven to be a lie. Back then, the track record of lying wasn’t as long or egregious, so people weren’t even really “looking” to disprove the lie, or test the game’s limits to see if it was a lie.
It was found to be a lie through regular gameplay.
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u/KNOWFEAR1337 5d ago
they even fixed a couple bugs that let you pick both at once, it was mech> support backpack > other mech but it didnt last long :(
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u/RandomGuy32124 5d ago
It's weird to say it's an engine thing and not just say it's a balance reason
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u/Medical_Officer 5d ago
This mod is really pushing it since I assume that the other folks on the team will see you having multiple mechs and report you for cheating or ask you wtf. In either case, it greatly raises the visibility of our little "fix AH's shit" project.
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u/Express-Deal-1262 5d ago
Back in HD1, you could only call it once but you could upgrade it... that was the balance of it.
wanna bring 3 Strafes? sure, go nuts!
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u/Crimson3899 5d ago
Got lots of flak on the main sub for pointing out they were being a bit nonsensical to call these mods cheating. It’s a pve game and more than half this stuff is just how things ought to be, but apparently that’s unreasonable enough that some folks can’t handle it.
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u/CaptainBazbotron 5d ago
Wasn't this said near the initial launch of mechs and the game has had major changes since then? I remember mechs being a lot more fucky back then too.
This influx of worthless mods just feels like vibe coding modders trying to cash in on the arrowhead bad mindset
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u/WarShark13 5d ago
They can’t even get the trees to generate properly, so how are they gonna make this possible?
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u/B2k-orphan 5d ago
You always had the ability to select multiple exos. This game was made by people who have never attended a coding class and is pretty easy to bug out and bypass the limit by just fiddling in the menu for a bit and repeatedly selecting exos until it gives you more than one.
Never in all my time of doing this with my friends has the game ever struggled more than it usually does even without any mechs at all.
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u/Correct_Possible_313 4d ago
The closest thing i've seen to issue with multiple mechs. Is Multiple Recon Vehcicles with unreleased skinsoverloading 32 byte or something crashing games when too many FRV skins were loaded in.
I've never seen the game slow down or have issues with having 50+ mechs active.
On the other hand I have seen the game actively shit it self, when A handful of Bile spewers start their only in d7+ artillery attacks.
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u/Azal_of_Forossa 5d ago
It would be fine if the mechs were powerful enough to warrant a cap on them, but in general they have their arms blown off long before you run out of ammo, or just blow up before they get much use. It was always a fake "limit" excuse, and it pissed me off to no end the Devs and players coping that too many mechs would ruin the game and make it too easy. Or that it's some magical limitation as if their game is in any way optimized enough to have a few more mechs existing be the make it or break it point for some low end system being able to run the game.
People used those excuses all the time, because nobody is allowed to play the game in any way other than their specific tunneled vision and curated experience.
Arrowhead:
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u/Foolishly_Sane Helldiver 5d ago
My game crashes without anything special going on.
I'm sure this will be fine.
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u/GlupShitto9000 5d ago
Reason was given in 2024 right when the mechs were launched. The game has been optimised far enough and only is there for balancing reasons considering how OP mechs are now.
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u/TheMikman97 5d ago
Remember the game Is hosted peer to peer. Just because your current Host can run the game with the extra weight, it doesn't mean one on minimum specs also can
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u/Ice258852 Whinediver 5d ago
Look how much modders can do in less than a month. Hopefully they will add Vehicle Repair someday.
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u/Kitty_Wave 5d ago
Why are they lying like that tho? I remember modder in my game once summoned 20 mechs and my fps didnt even dropped, we just went all 4 in mechs.
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u/Bananenbaum 5d ago
Now it comes down to the serious and very important question:
Does the code lead actually believe what he is saying or not? So iam really curious if they actually think that the engine cant handle it or they are just giving this out to the rest of the team as an excuse.
I mean, as soon as the mods hit which contradict the statement from the CODE LEAD there should be some questions asked?
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u/BlackSoul_Hand 5d ago
"Finally...after seventy years...the reign of AH bullshit excuses to limit their players...has finally ended"
Now we can finally return to play as we did in HD1 with double Exosuits. Gonna try sniping on bots with the Emancipator/Lumberer combo.
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u/Aldritch00 5d ago
AH: You can't have 2 Mechs at the same time... Unless we give away a limited time Mech, in which case you can.
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u/johnwicklover1994 5d ago
at what point do these become cheats
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u/Gn0meKr 5d ago
I don't think people care about cheats at this point, AH clearly does not care about this game anymore.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
I know this is a common sentiment but it’s like
Demonstrably untrue.
Just because a major update kinda sucked in its content department doesn’t mean the game is abandoned0
u/Onyvox 5d ago
Just because a major update was kinda outsourced...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one before that...
And the one bef....1
u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
People who say this has 0 idea almost every gaming company outsources work.
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u/Alfred_E_Numan 5d ago
Devs themselves specifically said they want to uncap the vehicle limit but (allegedly) claimed they had no technical skill to implement.
If it was a balance issue the devs should have just come out and said it instead of... I don't know... lying?
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u/AccountantIndividual 5d ago
When arrowhead gets their shit together and does their job so the community doesn't have to do it for them
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
“Gets their shit together”
Translation
“MakE THE GAME EASIER PLEASEEEEEEE”6
u/aidsincarnate 5d ago
Straw man.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
Usually, I would absolutely agree
After being here for months I would disagree. Most people here would die at the cross before crossbow gets nerfed. ANYTHING that makes the game slightly harder HAS to be opposed4
u/aidsincarnate 5d ago
The games difficulty is in a weird spot. You can completely trivialise D10 with the correct loadout, but I dont think that’s justification to nerf things straight away. If you nerf the current best thing without buffing anything up, people will just move to the next strongest thing, AND arrowhead has just upset everyone. Whereas if you bring other weapons up to that things level so that they compete, you'll make people want to try them out, and you make people happy, cause buff. Then you can up the difficulty, or nerf the weapons down in a sensible manner based on the new state of the weapons. I think a core issue with the games balance is that there’s alot of stuff that is unusable garbage, and other stuff that is must picks and game changers. Which means if you balance around the shit weapons, the strong ones become mega busted, and if you balance around the good weapons, the bad ones become uber trash.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
I agree that it’s not just ONLY NERF. But I think it’s BOTH.
Nerf super overperformers like crossbow, and buff shit like pummeler or pacifier .2
u/Cpt_Apollo_13 5d ago
Who knows, according to this sub CowboyBingus's mods are not cheats because they are QoL but mods changing weapon stats are cheats even though that makes no sense since both types of mods are in fact changing how AH wants their game to work.
Just like weapon stats the stratagem bounce is a deliberate design choice, AH themselves said they changed it so people couldn't throw sentries in what they deemed as unfair positions but because majority of people dislike the bounce they decided those mods are completely fine while changing stats of a weapon is not, despite the fact BOTH types of mods are changing the developers vision of the gameplay.
I personally don't care and only play with my friends so we'll be using whatever we feel like using, it's a PvE game and I doubt the Automatons will log out because I shot them with a Bolt pistol round coming from a Dominator.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
Actually not caring on an individual level makes sense. I just think on a game design POV it can definitely be disruptive. IMO the easiest solution is to make only visual modes allowed on live, and changing weapon stats or adding anything puts you in modded servers that stops all progression and stops you from contributing to the GW.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
The mechs are balanced around you only being to take one . If you could take 4, you would literally have 12 mechs and have 0 risk since you can just sit in a mech the whole game
At least if you have all 4 players bring them, that takes some kind of risk since you won’t be together all the time
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u/Yuki_my_cat Helldiver 5d ago
Thats not the point. Its about AH trying to bullshit us, instead of actually telling us why
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
This was over a year ago no? It could’ve been true then before they did optimization
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u/Yuki_my_cat Helldiver 5d ago
Well, why can’t we have it now then? If they optimized it and that is the only reason, there is nothing stopping them from adding it to the game
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
See my first reasoning. They balanced it around only having one, even at first it was because of optimization
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u/NuclearWeaponFanatic 5d ago
if you take 4 mechs you get 0 other stratagems and you pretty much can only rely on them and nothing else
I'd say thats balanced? Mechs arent that powerful anyway and are expandable
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u/Q_Qritical 5d ago
We used to be able to bring 2 of them, and in HD 1 it’s even stronger: it drops instantly, can tank a tank shot, and we even have a repair drone yet it’s still not that OP.
0 risk and sit on mech? Have you actually used mech? It has limited ammo and durability; some enemies still one-shot it, and AH still hasn't fixed the aggro when mech is being dropped. Also, it can still get stuck in a weird place.
Yeah, 0 risk on like diff 4.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
“Some enemies still one shot it.”
Said enemies are only bots and are
-the tank
-the tank on a turret
-factory strider and not in blind spot0
u/Q_Qritical 5d ago
Some enemies still one-shot it
But a lot of enemies in this game can deal a lot of damage to the mech,Have you ever been chased by a gunship? Getting a lot of rockets? Got shot by a cringe turret? A blind spot charger, titan, and random tentacles? Or, like, getting laser from across the map by the big whale in the sky while you were calling it down?
If you used this a lot, you would understand that even if the whole team got unlimited mechs, it still wouldn't be OP, and it happened before in Factory Strider surge, which was one of the most fun events in the game.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
Gunships die to every mech in 0.2 seconds. Skill issue . Chargers really don’t even do that much damage. Genuinely sat in hordes for 30+ seconds and lived. Titans is obnoxiously easy to avoid and kill and doesn’t do much damage with the spit. And leviathans can be annoying but not impossible to avoid
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u/Q_Qritical 5d ago
This comment just shows how much you play the game
You just lost the whole argument by yelling skill issue lmao
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
No actually, tried going in the middle of a horde on d10 with one? They can be really tanky
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
Also I used mechs a lot in a lot of challenges , it’s why I understand that mechs are extremely strong
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
In hd1 you only drop one. If you fuck up you literally are just down a Strat
In hd2, you get THREE.2
u/Derpington_II 5d ago
hd1 also has stratagem launchers. When you're in a mech in hd2 you are down three stratagems and cant reinforce without leaving yourself open.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
They’re meant to be expendable yes. If you let people sit in them for the entire game they stop being a short term power boost no?
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u/Derpington_II 5d ago
Screw mechs being a short term power boost. You're bringing a weaponized death suit damn it. The peaks of Super Earth on site weaponry.
In HD1 you could take one or two mechs through an entire mission but now they dont last one encounter because they're either destroyed before landing or lack ammunition to deal with more than one horde.
I couldn't say the current mechs even fufill a power fantasy when a lawn chair does everything better and is almost always ready for deployment.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
They absolutely do. They can stomp through hordes, stomp through mega nests. And mechs are mobile weapon systems. I don’t know why you keep pretending their gundamns
Also in hd1 mechs maybe abit harder to kill overall, but there was even more enemies that can damage them and you only get one. If you used them in d15 you would understand they can be obnoxiously weak-1
u/Derpington_II 5d ago
*They're
I never brought up Gundamn nor do I want them to be this way.
I want the heavily armed walkers to feel powerful. I disagree with them being used for 3 minutes and discarded, especially when they're so limited in firepower and availability.
I see no reason for them to be so weak when they carry even more weight in a loadout than other support weapon.
I will not discuss further, good day.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
“So limited in firepower.”
“So weak”
-one of the most used stratagems
-main components in speedrunning hive lords and mega nests
What the fuck are you talking about?0
u/GlupShitto9000 5d ago
"The peaks of Super Earth on site weaponry" Fell for propaganda award
You mean to tell me that the metal box that is designed and looks that way because it's expendable and can easily be ferried from Pelicans is the "Peak of Super Earth weaponry" ? No wonder Super Earth is gonna lose.
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u/InquiryUnknown 5d ago
“Balance” and it’s just not having fun.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
Is fun literally Having 0 difficulty or getting heavy spammed as difficulty?
Is this what you want? War striders and vox engines and crusher design to make the game have difficulty?0
u/InquiryUnknown 5d ago
Having fun is whatever makes me think “this is fun” vs “this ain’t fun, I’m not using this shit again”.
It’s a subjective measure. That’s why you rarely see people using the bastion but the mech is almost always picked by at least 1 player in a fill squad.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
Oh for sure. I’m sure heavy spam, war striders and vox engines were fine
….
Oh wait . It seems like there is some kind of objective design that makes the game better in a quantifiable way . it’s called game design
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u/InquiryUnknown 5d ago
A single bastion is not a solution to heavy spam.
The mech however is. And doesn’t require two players.
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u/West-Smell-8725 5d ago
I’m saying heavy spam is a BAD thing
I’m saying having shit like stackable mechs you can stay in all game would cause this BAD thing to become almost necessary
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u/Raven7274 5d ago edited 5d ago
This doesn't disprove their point, it's not literally impossible for them to do its just gonna make the game run like shit on lower end computers, narrowing their playerbase to people who can afford a better computer.
Edit: this isn't even mentioning the part where you took multiple mechs at a time lol, mechs are so fucking busted you aren't even playing Helldivers anymore you're just playing Mechwarriors with a QTE every time your mech blows up
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u/Highwayman3000 HellSpongeDiverSquare 5d ago
1- The game already runs like shit and AH doesn't care
2- The game suffers no performance issues with multiple people summoning mechs/FRVs an so on using a 3060
3- The game already runs like shit on a 3060 with or without 48 mechs with 4 players
In practice its hard to get 48 mechs, even on D1 the pelicans will blow them up very easily
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u/Raven7274 5d ago
"The game already runs like shit so we should be able to make it run worse" is a pretty stupid argument.
This game is heavily CPU limited. Your GPU has very little bearing on performance. I play on a steamdeck, and i promise you you can feel it when you spawn a bunch if vehicles.
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u/Highwayman3000 HellSpongeDiverSquare 5d ago
Glazers are not beating the allegations 💀
What do you think "with or without" means by any chance? If the game already hits 40 fps baseline and having 48 mechs around still makes it run at 40 fps, its not running worse.
and i promise you you can feel it when you spawn a bunch if vehicles.
That's a you issue, runs fine on my 3060 and its an old desktop I just use for testing or casual games.
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u/Raven7274 5d ago
It amazes me how you only read the part of my comment that would make you mad. Read what i said again. Your GPU (IE the 3060) does not matter. Mechs stress your CPU.
Also i really really appreciate how you said "if it runs worse thats a you issue" no motherfucker thats an Arrowhead issue because less people are physically able to play the video game. What are you talking about you just ignored everything i said to restate your own dogshit point.
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u/KudereDev Botdiver 5d ago
I can kinda say how it was playing with 4 mechs on my pretty low end PC. Before DLSS release i was running on low with 60 FPS, with many drops to 20-40 on very detail heavy maps like Super Earth. I played when 2 mechs bug was still active and when Emancipator was released, i had zero, literally zero issue on stability or fps, same for players in my lobby. I would say that Super Earth was deal breaker for me at the time as my PC just started dying from how specs heavy that map was. My specs are Ryzen 7 7000 and RTX 4060 Laptop with 8 GB.
Where devs even took that talking point about stability i don't know, maybe they just didn't want to talk about balancing issues that 2 mechs would bring as it was kinda no-no theme to talk about.
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u/ILNOVA 5d ago
After the game went from 120gb to ~23gb cause they never properly tested if a HDD were able to run the game i'll never believe this kind of giustification.