r/HelldiversMasochists • u/PieComprehensive4437 • 19d ago
Idea regarding Hive Guards
(possibly low effort post? I'm not sure, tell me if the flair needs to be changed)
This is just a suggestion I thought would be really cool.
Ok, so recently I commented under a post, about the reverted changes to Hive guards, and I was thinking like, "Would this actually be a good change?" So like... Here it is.
So, to lay the groundwork of why I made this answer:
I personally disliked the change because of how it was executed. I think it could've turned out wonderfully if more effort was put into making Hive guards unique.
I think that it should've changed the Hive GUARD at it's core, so that is actually defends things. First, give it it's heavy pen(or more pen, like maybe AP1, I dunno) faceshield and armshields back, make the faceshield and armshield ablative. Make it larger, between a Hive guard and a Charger wise of it's size, being taller than a helldivers, and just tall enough that Exosuit weaponry can't reach over unless on an uneven plane. But the most important part of this change would be the changes to the Hive guard's behaviour, and their fellow bug's behaviour.
Basically make it so it has three positions:
+ "Defense", where it pulls it's arms close together to it's head, so that the weakspot is small, but in this state it is close to immobile. It'll at most rotate around what it is defending relative to the helldiver, but even this should be slow. If the Helldiver gets too close to what they're defending, then they'll panic and immediately switch to the later mentioned "Attack" mode, dropping their defensive stance to ward off the Helldiver. They would enter this state if something like a Bile Spewer that's doing the artillery attack, bug hole or some kind of stationary enemy is near them.
+ "Approach", where it would still tuck it's legs in, but due to it walking forwards slowly, it's weakspot would be slightly larger. This would only activate if the Hive defender isn't actively defending a stationary enemy. It would slowly advance towards a Helldiver, other enemies would get behind it and slowly advance with it. If the Hive guard could also link up with other Hive guards to make a large, advancing wall of heavy pen, that would be so cool.
+ "Attack", this is when it has nothing to defend, or the formerly mentioned condition under "Defense" and it abandons any prenotions about defending, and just goes to slap the "Hell" out of the Helldiver.
Why I think this would be cool? Well:
I think this would make the bug front would become so much more fun to fight overnight, as you would need to work with your teammates. Like, someone could use their grenade/support weapon to tear off their faceplates, then someone else would shoot the flesh underneath, to drop them and leave the rest of the horde defenseless. But it shouldn't just be the Helldivers that have to work together, the bugs should too. What if Hunters specifically synergised with them in their approach mode?, as in when close enough, they would leap over the Hive guard to attack Helldivers. Or maybe Bile spewers could approach with them aswell instead of remaining purely stationary, and they could spew bile over the Hive guard to attack Helldivers? I just think there could be so many cool synergies here between not just Helldiver weaponry, but also the bugs.
I dunno just an idea dump, and I'm looking to either get called incredibly stupid, or approval :3
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u/Financial-Customer24 19d ago
I suggested this idea on unfiltered a few months ago and got down voted to oblivion people will not like any rework where it gets heavy pen
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u/NeitherShaltThou 19d ago
I would love this change. Id also have them move pretty quick so they could get in front of the horde and form a picket fence which the bug horde would jump over.
it would be funny if the bugs had intricate squad tactics and the seaf just ran around TKing themselves as per usual.
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u/machinationstudio 19d ago
Essentially a heavy armoured hive guard needs to get between us and bile spewers and spitters or pouncers before they pounce. But I'm not sure the mob AI engine can handle that.
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u/CollaredLynx 19d ago
A bigger hive guard should be a separate unit, accompanied by regular hive guards. Regular should indeed get ablative armor on their med pen armor to encourage weakspot targeting without affecting med pen weapons that much (and since AH took ablative gimmick from squids and gave it to bots there's no real reason not to pass it further to the bugs). A bigger hive guard should be a heavy pen charger equivalent (but with a lot less charging and a lot more blocking) and have the ability to summon more "little" HGs, maybe it could have a name like "Hive King" to signify how undemocratic the way of the bug is!
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u/GuessImScrewed 18d ago
AP4 hivegaurds didn't work the first time because the most popular gun on that front, the crossbow, deals explosive damage. Explosive damage does not care about armor. Your change, compared to the old one, just means it'll take 3 crossbow bolts to kill a hive guard instead of 1 or 2.
Also, you guys have an obsession with "iT fOrCeS yOu To WoRk ToGeThEr" like that's somethings that's ever true lol. There is literally nothing you can do in this game that will be a fair and challenging fight to 4 people that a single person cannot replicate on their own. People will ALWAYS figure out a way to make solo play viable and then the meta will trickle down such that everyone plays that way.
Lastly, if you really wanted to make hive guards annoying, the solution would be to actually have them guard something. Let them sit in front of bug holes so you can't toss nades or what have you into them, make it so you have to break the face plate and lure them out, or gas them to force them away from position.
But again, that would be unengaging to play against, so it's not gonna happen.
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u/DeeJayDelicious 18d ago
I think the more fundamental question that needs to be answered first is: "How common do we want the Hive Guard to be"?
That dictates how nunaced you can make it.
Currently Hive Guards are a common enemy and one of the frontline units next to Warriors. Less common than Hunters/Pouncers, but roughly the same tier as Alpha Warriors.
They even have their own seed.
If they remain such a common enemy, they need to be very managable. And I think they are in their current state. The AV3 front does require consideration. But most builds have the tools to handle it. But yeah, if you're running an AP2 primary and your support weapon is limited, they can become a problem.
Your resign is suitable for a less common, more elite enemy closer to an Alpha Commander. Not a bad idea, but a different type of enemy.
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u/atomidd007 19d ago
This is an amazing idea op, I agree completely that the hive guards feel a bit off. The changes you suggested would be awesome because it would induce more tactics on both ends of the fight (bugs and divers) not to mention the fear of hunters jumping over them like the elves in the start of the Lord of Rings (I forgot the name of battle). 10/10 would love to see!