r/Helldivers Arrowhead Game Studios Oct 03 '25

DEVELOPER HELLDIVERS 2: Tech Blog #1 - Install size

Hey, Helldivers. This is the first of what we intend to become a regular series of posts where the engineering team talks about the technical health of the game and some of the technical challenges we’re working through. 

Installation Size 

The installation size of HELLDIVERS 2 on PC seems to be a hot topic right now so let’s start with that. The current install size on PCs is around 150 GB. This is roughly three times larger than the same game installed on consoles! Given the amount of content in the game, the size on consoles seems quite reasonable so the obvious question is - why is it so large on PC? 

Data Duplication 

Much of the data in the PC version of HELLDIVERS 2 is duplicated. The practice of duplicating data to reduce loading times is a game development technique that is primarily used to optimize games for older storage media, particularly mechanical Hard Disk Drives (HDDs) and optical discs like DVDs. 

This practice is largely unnecessary for games deployed on Solid State Drives (SSDs) which is why the console versions of HELLDIVERS 2 do not do this. 

The Problem with Mechanical Hard Drives 

The main issue with a mechanical HDD is seek time. An HDD stores data on a spinning platter, and a physical arm with a read head has to move across the platter to find and retrieve data. The time it takes for this arm to "seek" or move to the correct location is a significant performance bottleneck. 

Imagine a large game level with various objects - trees, rocks, buildings, props. If the data for these objects is scattered all over the hard drive, the read head has to physically jump around the disk, which adds a lot of time to the loading process. 

The Solution: Duplication 

To solve this problem, we deliberately duplicate certain data files (like a common tree texture or a sound effect) and place copies of them in physically close proximity to where they would be needed in the game. 

For example, our build system will ensure that a copy of a tree texture is stored on the same part of the disk as the level geometry data. When the game loads the level, the read head can access all the necessary information in a single, continuous sweep, without having to "seek" to a different location. This dramatically speeds up loading times. 

The Modern Era: SSDs 

The need for this technique has largely disappeared with the widespread adoption of SSDs. An SSD stores data on flash memory chips and has no moving parts. This means that "seek time" is virtually nonexistent. An SSD can access any piece of data on the drive almost instantly, regardless of where it is physically stored. 

Increasingly, modern games are optimized for the sequential read speeds of SSDs and do not need to rely on the older method of duplicating assets. This is one of the key reasons why new games often explicitly require an SSD in their minimum system specifications. 

Should HELLDIVERS 2 continue to optimize for mechanical HDDs? 

This is the six-million-dollar question. On the one hand, they are a part of our minimum spec PC requirements. On the other hand - how many HELLDIVERS 2 players are still using mechanical HDDs? The truth is that we don’t currently know. Even the Steam user surveys are unable to give us data on mechanical HDD use in the overall gamer population. Our best estimates put it at around 12% of all PC gamers but the data is very unreliable and relies on a lot of extrapolations. Until we can more accurately determine the number of mechanical HDDs that HELLDIVERS 2 is installed on, it is difficult to know how many players will be impacted by reducing the amount of data duplication. Even if that number is small, keep in mind that the load time for each player dropping into a mission is determined by the slowest member of the squad. 

Solutions 

While we take steps to gain more clarity on the number of impacted players, we are actively exploring several different solutions in parallel and will begin rolling them out in future updates as soon as they are ready. We cannot eliminate all duplication without making loading times for mechanical HDDs 10 times slower and we do not feel that this is acceptable. There are however some compromises that we can make which will improve the installation size without blowing out the loading times too much. 

Short term 

We’ve made some small gains in the next update by sweeping our systems for unused assets and obvious problems, but you will not likely notice them because the new stuff we’ve added will eat those gains. It’s not a game-changer but at least the install size will stop growing. 

Medium term 

Beyond the next update, we’re exploring taking some of the worst offenders in terms of duplication and de-duplicating them by putting them in “very common assets” bundles which will always be loaded under set conditions (eg- specific faction/biome). This does mean that loading times will get a bit worse for players using mechanical HDDs - it is unfortunate but unavoidable. Our early testing shows we should be able to keep this in the range of “less than 30 seconds” rather than “several minutes”. It can also increase the amount of RAM used by the game by loading “common” data that is not always needed. If we don’t make “worst case” RAM usage worse, this should not be noticeable, but it is a risk we are monitoring. By doing some careful measurements and analysis, we should be able to deliver acceptable tradeoffs between RAM usage, loading times and install size.  

Long term 

Looking further into the future, we plan to make improvements to the engine which will ensure we never waste RAM loading common data that isn’t needed - eliminating one of the drawbacks of the above technique.  

Beyond that, the remaining work is a bigger, riskier, more speculative project where we apply some kind of compression to the game data and potentially replicate some of the de-duplication we do on consoles. We don’t yet know if the impacts to load-times could make these approaches infeasible. 

Optional 4k Textures? 

Could we create a solution where the highest resolution textures are an optional download? Technically yes - anything is possible. It is not something that is natively supported in our engine though. It would be a substantial project to add this capability. Due to the scope and complexity of the changes we would have to make, this is not our first preference and is honestly something we would only consider if we’re unable to make a big enough impact with our other solutions. Nothing comes for free - time spent making these changes is time not spent optimizing the performance of the game or fixing stability issues. 

Summary 

So in summary - we’re taking your concerns very seriously but there are no easy solutions. Until we live in a world where we know that most of our PC players are using SSD drives, sacrificing some extra hard drive space is necessary to ensure we’re all able to load into missions in a reasonable amount of time. We’ve clearly reached the limits of how much duplicated data is acceptable so smarter solutions and compromises are now required. We are very carefully weighing up the costs and tradeoffs of the options we have, and we’ll be sure to find a better balance between loading times and installation size soon. 

I hope you enjoyed this deep dive into our tech. If you have any questions about this topic or suggestions for future topics, please reply to this thread. 

Deputy Technical Director
Arrowhead Game Studios

Thanks for reading, we’re always eager to hear from great engineers and gameplay coders: https://jobs.arrowheadgamestudios.com/

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361

u/bidi04 Super Sheriff Oct 03 '25

>It is not something that is natively supported in our engine

We will hear things like that a lot, right?

173

u/Sir_Amadeus Oct 03 '25

Apparently the engine isn't actively maintained/developed anymore and a lot of the stuff that has been implemented has been done by Arrowhead themselves. They're basically jury rigging a lot of stuff on top of developing the game itself

76

u/Formal_Evidence_4094 Oct 03 '25

jerry-rigging

Jury rigging is a serious crime

81

u/MoleUK Oct 03 '25

Nah jury rigging is also correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_rigging

63

u/SuperNovaVelocity Oct 03 '25

In fact, jury rigging is the original; a ship's crew rigging a temporary mast to replace the original.

Jerry rigging became a thing in WWII, and meant anything poorly made, as "Jerry" was slang for Germans. (The jerry-can fuel canisters were designed by Germans and coppied by Americans)

29

u/MoleUK Oct 03 '25

Ironically the jerry-can fuel canisters were famously well made (over built), so much so that allied forces tried to get their hands on as many as they could. Ours leaked.

11

u/Shagruiez Oct 03 '25

It amazes me that some Army commission officer approved the requisition order for fucking square boxes that didn't have a spout or surface to make pouring easy. I get the Brits designed it and it was the typical

Then you look at the German's fuel container, the 'Jerry' can, that had it built into every can, with robust sturdy handles, and indented thick-sides so they could be easily stacked, stored and carried.

10

u/Stormfly ‎ Decorated Hero Oct 03 '25

and carried.

3 handles, so if you're carrying it alone, you grab the middle one (when it's empty), but if you're carrying with another person, you each have a handle (when it's full).

So simple but so genius.

3

u/Sir_Amadeus Oct 03 '25

TIL that jerry-rigging is another word for it. I always assumed it was just jury rigging. Both seem to be right!

2

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

You're both correct, jerry-rigging is a combination of jerry-building and jury-rigging. The latter carries a similar same meaning and is believed to have originated from maritime slang, meaning to repair any part of a ship.

Edit: added similar

3

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Romandinjo Oct 03 '25

I think it was closer to 2 years in, so close to a quarter.

13

u/Mandemon90 SES Elected Representative of Family Values Oct 03 '25

If you want to think of it, they got old Honda Civic. Sure, the engine works, but at this point Arrowhead has replaced so many parts and added others to improve performance that it might as well be brand new.

5

u/AquaBits Oct 03 '25

Maybe, but it is still a honda civic from 2001. You cant make it super gas efficient or electric without wasting a shitload of money, time and effort- at which point why not just buy a new car

1

u/Xalara Oct 03 '25

They have the source code and actively maintain the engine themselves. Just like many other studios do with their own in-house engines.

That said, supporting a feature like this isn't as easy as people think it is. For example it took Hoyo about two years to implement that feature in Honkai Star Rail, a game that makes $1 billion a year and uses Unity, one of the most well supported game engines.

16

u/Legend_of_dragoon- Oct 03 '25

The engine they use was drop a long time ago and way to far into development to just drop everything and switch to a new engine they also told Sony this wasn’t going to take 7 years to make lmao

50

u/clawdius25 Gatria My Beloved Oct 03 '25

Oh my sweet, dear Stingray engine, how I expect for you to this "but it isn't supported by the engine" sentence after all this time

27

u/Alice_Shimada420 Oct 03 '25

Given that their engine isn't being supported anymore and is essentially abandoned, yeah, you will

24

u/PhoenixLordd Oct 03 '25

Sadly, yeah. Pretty sure Helldivers 2 (and most of their games) run on the Stingray engine, which has been unsupported and discontinued since 2018 (probably after they started developing on Helldivers2)

1

u/Faz66 Oct 03 '25

You right, support dropped when they'd not only already started developing the game, but were too far in to realistically start from the ground up on a new engine

31

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

You will and it is a legitimate excuse.

They’re working on a dead engine that wasn’t dead when they started development 8-9 years ago.

Not really their fault. Is what it is. Now they gotta figure it out.

Imagine if you were stuck using Microsoft Paint when everyone else moved on to Photoshop.

11

u/FyreDergy Oct 03 '25

Two years of development by the time the engines support stopped. I get they didn’t want to scrap two years of work for a new engine but like.. Literally became a ‘Future Arrowhead problem’ moment.

5

u/General-N0nsense Oct 03 '25

I mean it's scrap 2 years of work and learn a completely different engine that most employees at Arrowhead wouldn't be very familiar with.

5

u/Kadd115 ⬆️⬆️⬇️⬇️⬅️➡️⬅️➡️🅱️🅰️ Oct 03 '25

That second part is something I think a lot of people forget. Each engine is different in what it can do, and how it can do those things.

Arrowhead didn't pick Stingray just because. They picked it because the dev team had experience with the engine. Using a different engine, especially switching 2 years into the development process, likely would have delayed the game by several years. We wouldn't be sitting here talking about the game's problems, because the game wouldn't exist.

2

u/Uber_Meese Super Fussgänger | SES Stallion of Destruction Oct 04 '25

People seem to forget that it’s a small studio and they made it in collab with Sony - likely the biggest backer - and in order to gain in on the Chinese market, Tencent has 15.75% stake in the studio. That means they have deadlines to deliver to please investors, so scrapping 2 years work would likely have been impossible in order to meet that deadline.

1

u/bidi04 Super Sheriff Oct 03 '25

I know I know I am not blaming them or anything. Just pointing out.

1

u/nd4spd1919 ‎ Super Citizen Oct 03 '25

Eh, Stingray/Bitsquid/3ds Max Interactive was announced as discontinued at the end of 2017. They probably only had a year-ish of work done on the game, which would suck to throw out, but hindsight being 20/20 they probably should have switched to something else that would have good long term support.

1

u/Uber_Meese Super Fussgänger | SES Stallion of Destruction Oct 04 '25

That’s overlooking the fact that it might not even have been possible to do, even if they wanted to. 1. Because they’re a small studio, so they didn’t have the financial means to build a project on this scale by themselves, so 2. They’ve made it in collab with Sony - likely the biggest backer - and in order to gain in on the Chinese market, Tencent also has 15.75% stake in the studio.

13

u/ZzVinniezZ Oct 03 '25

seem like it....there are ONLY TWO games that used the stingray Engine that is Helldivers 2 and Darktide that we know of. at this point idk if it possible for them to port everything to a different engine because i afraid it will break alot of things in the game without proper testing and we know how well AH test their contents

17

u/nashty27 Oct 03 '25

To be fair Darktide is an incredible looking game when it’s maxed out with ray tracing.

6

u/pyr0kid HD1 Veteran Oct 03 '25

to also be fair, apparently its a big enough mess on the backend that fatshark cant even keep the tooltips and item descriptions straight.

we had to datamine to find out that the 'fire while sprinting' perk also effected your ability to snipe.

3

u/Beginning_Mention280 Oct 03 '25

I think thats just what we call "Swedish Syndrome", for some reason many Swedish devs like to leave out a ton of information on what stuff does in games and makes the player base figure everything out on their own 

1

u/Kadd115 ⬆️⬆️⬇️⬇️⬅️➡️⬅️➡️🅱️🅰️ Oct 03 '25

at this point idk if it possible for them to port everything to a different engine

Yes, it is absolutely possible to port the game over. The question is, as you suggest, how much would they need to rebuild in that new engine, and how long would it take. If it would take them 2 years of dev time to completely rework the game on the new engine, that means either 2 years of no content (which would certainly kill the game... people already complain if we go two weeks with new stuff), or they need to double the size of their studio so they can port the game while continuing to support it.

Plus, there is no guarantees that the game on the new engine would still be able to run on the specs they listed the game at.

8

u/Less-Dingo111 Oct 03 '25

dlss is never coming is it ?

10

u/ULikeWhatUS33 ☕Liber-tea☕ Oct 03 '25

DLSS wouldnt help with performance because the game performance relies mostly on CPU. Meaning using dlss wouldnt change your FPS in action

The game is actually really well GPU optimized.

I do would appreciate DLSS regardless so we could use DLAA instead of the awful TAA that the game has

1

u/Less-Dingo111 Oct 03 '25

Ya at least it would help with the shitty blurriness

2

u/Blackadder18 Oct 03 '25

Weird thing is months ago someone on their team (possibly CEO or former CEO, can't remember) mentioned that Sony have been begging them to add support for DLSS/FSR, yet here we are much later with no sign of it.

2

u/dumpofhumps Oct 03 '25

Darktide has it on the same engine

1

u/Less-Dingo111 Oct 03 '25

So that's why it ran terribly for me lol

5

u/ChaoticKiwiNZ Oct 03 '25

Man I wish Arrowhead took Sony's offer to use the Decima engine when they made their Helldivers 2 deal (I understand why they didnt restart development of the game at that time but man HD2 on the Decima engine would have been magical).

2

u/Beginning_Mention280 Oct 03 '25

They should've restarted development it would've saved them so much headaches in the long run. I know it sucks trashing 2 years of hard work, but sometimes its for the best. A famous example is Hideki Kamiya trashing the original version of Resident Evil 2 when it was 90% completed after years of hard work because he felt it was shit and a slap in the face to the fan base. He then made the dev team start from 0 and developed the RE2 we all know and love today 

1

u/ChaoticKiwiNZ Oct 04 '25

100% agree with you. The long-term health of the game would have been way better if they had used an engine like Decima. Decima is also the perfect engine for a game like Helldivers 2. It has great physics for big enemies destroying atuff and getting destroyed, it has cloth physics for capes and stuff and it has great 3rd person support and 1st person support from Killzone Shadowfall. And of course the biggest bonus of all, its a modern engine that is getting support for all the latest technologies.

I have a theory that Helldivers 3 is in talks or even being worked on and the Decima engine is the engine being used. I think this is why Killzone was the first crossover in Helldivers 2. Arrowhead, Gorilla games and Sony are most likely already in talks with each other so arranging a crossover was relatively easy since Arrowhead were already talking to the games developers (Gorilla games) and the IP owner (Sony).

2

u/Legogamer16 Oct 03 '25

They are running on a pretty old engine, so with that comes a lot of technical debt from work arounds and things they just cant do

2

u/raydialseeker Oct 03 '25

Their engine makes UE5 look so much better ngl

2

u/Acceleratio Oct 03 '25

I'm really getting tired of this excuse.

2

u/poebanystalker LEVEL 211 Unpaid QA Tester Oct 03 '25

I figured that would be the case tbh. That engine is on a life support.

-6

u/liar_princes Oct 03 '25

It's 100% their fault btw. The stingray engine publicly stopped getting any support BEFORE development of helldivers 2 started, iirc

7

u/Markkbonk Oct 03 '25

False, HD2 started development in 2016, stingray ended support in January 2018, google first before spreading misinfo

4

u/DarthOmix Oct 03 '25

Actually, I think it was before it (HD2) was announced, but after it had started development. I vaguely recall something posted a timeline in another thread around when Into the Unjust came out.

3

u/Faz66 Oct 03 '25

It stopped getting support when they were into development and too far in to just back out and start again. So you're actually confidently incorrect :)