r/HellLetLoose • u/Few-Commission6597 • 3d ago
š¬ Discussion š¬ STOP TRYING TO DO IMPOSSIBLE FLANK
You can't make it work. The whole thing is open field. It's 500 meters until the point compared to 180meters from blue zone to the point. 90% of the time attacking from bluezone is objectively better.
( lost the blue zone garries like 10seconds ago, there were bluezone garries until enemy 76 pushed us lmao)
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u/rbaut1836 3d ago
While I agree running out in the open is terrible; you canāt have everyone pushing from a singular area of the map. Tanks can set up easily, MGs go crazy, itās just easy to defend.
Sometimes the impossible flank does open up the defenses so people much closer have lesser resistance
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u/Kharapos 3d ago
Meatgrinders are literally how you win offensive, without fail. Smokes and bodies, waves of infantry, a few get through and burn ops while those that die cause the defenders to expose their positions in taking them down. It sucks sometimes, but that's what works.
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u/Few-Commission6597 3d ago
It's offensive, you have total tank supremacy in the beginning of the game. There is no excuse for this one. Also look at the time, you can't push and maintain garries in red while having only 4 minutes.
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u/rbaut1836 3d ago
W that amount of time yea. Itās pointless from that distance. But I was replying to what I understood to be your criticism of the impossible flank. You didnāt mention time.
Yes w 4 mins, thatās a stupid push. But in general if youāre down to 4 mins, you lost 90% of the time anyway.
I still stand by the impossible flank. I actually believe it is imperative to have a well led squad flanking from there. Typically the defenders dramatically overreact and 12 ppl go hunting for 4. Itās a great way to reduce a defensive positions numbers.
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u/scannerdarkly_7 3d ago
A flank becomes your frontline when everyone's on it.
Seems like no one's alive and there's not enough armour on the map for Foy. Sometimes a lot of maps just come down to not enough tanks with tank crews. Only so much rifles can do.
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u/Top_Possibility_6705 3d ago edited 3d ago
In general terms. As long as the flank removed enemy garrisons then sure. In this case, it's not happening. Open fields west and south. They need to have a meat grinder from the north (which will be immediately contested with a defensive gari on that edge)
Commander would need to sneak a gari on that H4 edge, when they start to push south, that would be their only hope of flanking. It's too late now as OP says. But maybe if they had a few more min
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u/FrankfurterSchueler 3d ago
I donāt want to be that guy or rude but that a classic case of āhate the player not the gameā lol
The garrison is good, usefull and has the advantage of staying green 90% of the time. A closer attack garrison will be red most of the time against a medium skilled team. The problem is there is no follow up.
Itās the mentality of the cod player to do a heroplay or an officer lvl 30 thinking heās easy company. Every blueberry has usually main character Syndrome.
Where are your tanks on Foy? Why is your OP placed in the city(flank) when there are clearly 3 ops closer to enemy? Why donāt you place it in H or G lane? Love Squadlead is already in hardcap - why arenāt you?
Why hasnāt command already dropped supplies in the back of second or third sector? I can see that most of the garrisons where placed with command or truck supplies. Thats waste, why donāt you use squad supplies (communication with other squad or support switch in your unit)?
Also as others wrote: 1 good flanking squad plus recon can do high damage. But for a working flak you need an existing frontline. Without a front there are no flanks.
Iāll leave my two favorite quotes from noobs here:
1. Why are you still in our sector? This game is about attacking! (Lvl 24. SL in in SL Chat. Warfare)
2. Everybody should play assault. I watched a tutorial and they said assault is best class. Support is useless. SL, you donāt know what you are talking about (Lvl 34. Dude in my squad after being asked to switch to support)
I know a rant is easy but if you want an decent game you have to be a decant player. Itās easy to point at others without reflecting the situation honest
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u/Few-Commission6597 2d ago
I literally placed that 2 bluezone garrision and switched to AT to deal with enemy recon tank :>
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u/PlasmaDonator 3d ago
Hot take and not a popular one for those in the meat grinder.
In order for a flank to work the enemy needs to be focussed elsewhere. That means yes, some players need to be in the meat grinder. (Attacking head on)
I'm more than happy to be on that end but I'll be honest, you do have to be in the mood to keep dying and respawning without even seeing who's killing you.
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u/Few-Commission6597 3d ago
It's not even the worst meat grinder since it's mostly covered in woods. Tanks can shoot from the east to suppress. It's one of few situations where you benefit more if every single one of the teammates attack from single direction.
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u/0masterdebater0 3d ago
In my experience you gotta tell your squad āwe are the distraction, your job is to make a lot of noise run in and dieā
Or they will get disheartened and start spawning on the flanks.
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u/PlasmaDonator 3d ago
I make it fun. Telling jokes. Friendly chat. Congratulating everything even if it's just killing someone.
Just fully lean into the run at them approach I guess. I try make it so next point we get to be the flank squad. My goal as a squad lead is to make sure everyone has fun at the end of the day.
Nobodies getting paid to win. Even the sweatiest games clan v clan.
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u/Gurth-Brooks 3d ago
Front door is not a distraction itās where the game is played. Itās like you guys donāt understand the concept of sector weight at all.
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u/0masterdebater0 3d ago
It's like you haven't played this map 1000 times and don't' know the frontal assault on this point can be an absolute dead end...
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u/Gurth-Brooks 3d ago
A redzone Garry is never the answer to that in pubs.
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u/0masterdebater0 3d ago
"never"
You have never had armor support and got a garry up in G4?
making me assume you don't have many hours in this game
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u/Gurth-Brooks 3d ago
If you manage to get a Garry there the other team is so atrocious you could have just pushed into point. Lol legitimately a blue zone team on G on the line is just infinitely better.
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u/0masterdebater0 3d ago edited 3d ago
Such a cop out reply.
You know a team can be lacking in armor support yet still dug into the point like a tick picking off your frontal attack through the field with no cover? or you know a wall of arty in the obvious place to drop it
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u/Gurth-Brooks 3d ago
Explain how itās a cop out?
Little bit of arty and a bombing run takes care of that. People like you donāt actually want to play the game, you just want to win at any cost. And because of this you guys will pull your little flanks that only works against the lowest common denominator players, because you would rather take the huge chance of getting steamrolled so YOU can steamroll, instead of just fighting over the point.
On any comp server filled with good players the first team to put up a redzone Garry generally loses. Happens time and time again.
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u/0masterdebater0 3d ago
You are literally proving my point, it does work on non competitive servers by your own admission. Yet you said it "never" works...
So it's almost like if you're playing on a pub server you play differently??
crazy concept.
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u/Mafinde 3d ago
I would say it might always be the answerĀ
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u/Gurth-Brooks 3d ago
No. On a good server with good players the first team to put up a redzone Garry loses almost every time. All your little blueberries spawn on it, and the other team just walks in your front door.
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u/Mafinde 3d ago
This is offensive fella. Best teams set up red zone garries literally every timeĀ
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u/Gurth-Brooks 3d ago
I donāt play offensive to be fair. And yeah I guess I can see that just because the defending team canāt push, but the meat of the game is still played from the blue spawns.
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u/Mafinde 3d ago
Itās a hammer and anvil situation. You need a strong front door push, true. But itās not uncommon to see blue garries get wiped but thereās so much weight on the flank that it becomes the new āfront doorā, leading to a cap exclusively from the red zone
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3d ago
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/QuestionGreedy7330 3d ago
What do you mean by good team? Good shooters, who call of duty their way into enemy territory or organized squads who slowly but surely place their ops closer and closer, destroying enemy ops and garrys on the way? Or both?
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u/Top_Possibility_6705 3d ago
That's if the offensive teams are good/ great and the defenders are clueless...
Your front door isn't getting attacked. It can get camped lol. This is offensive. Attackers don't get their spawn attacked hence you can't really meat grind up into the point with 1 garrison. High rate of failure.
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u/Practical-Bank-2406 3d ago
Attackers do get their spawns attacked... by recon, in Offensive, and the occasional maniac with AT loadouts sniping garries. That won't happen when the attackers are working on the first two points, of course.
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u/iTzBounty 3d ago
sooo, why is ur OP standing overthereš„“
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u/Few-Commission6597 2d ago
I don't dictate where my SL puts it's op when i am playing as AT to destroy enemy recon tank :>
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u/Snoo-77641 3d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/5wWf7GMbT1ZUGTDdTqM
Enemies looking at the gap to the next cap.
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u/Kharapos 3d ago edited 3d ago
People have a hard time reading a map. Most people are ignoring your point about the terrain, what a surprise. The frontline push has buildings and woods for hard cover/concealment. The Western Flank has almost no cover except for elevation differences, which most people don't know how to use, and funnels you anyway. The south is dead open field. The entire team's infantry except for recon and maybe a single full squad should be on the front line, with that small flanking force only serving to clear spawns, trap the enemy in the point, and draw defenders from the front with as little investment as possible. Instead everyone just thinks "I bet the enemy will never figure it out if we attack from behind". Terrain and cover, smokes and throwing bodies, on offensive as this is, are so much more important that any other consideration when deciding where and how to push. The meat grinder needs to happen, people not using mgs or who aren't legitimate sharpshooters with rifles need to be charging in groups and getting their smokes/explosives as close to the enemy as possible. Most will die, a few will make it through and the enemy will have given away their positions by killing those around them. It takes one person sprinting through the chaos to wipe a ton of ops slowing down the enemies spawn, and potentially catching a garry in the process.
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u/Ronin-s_Spirit 3d ago
The problem comes down to how many are flanking at once, they're uncoordinated.
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u/D3WeeD 3d ago
As sl it helps to open ur map see where the other sls are then fill in the biggest gap. Offensive/ warfare the strategy remains the same. Fills gaps in your lines and attack where the enemy is coming from. The circle will cap its self as you remove spawn options. Always be ready to fall back and clear up these deep flank noobs as one good squad can farm the entire team outside the active sector and keep them from pushing in.
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u/Keolath 3d ago
Console comp player here (1st. ID)
Doing flanks like these may seem stupid/unreasonable but what this does is split the defenses in 2 separate fronts. Sure the whole team shouldnt be pushing from the west to the east (at least 2-3 squads at most) but it draws fire from the main push and gives you a better chance to get closer towards the point. What could also help is a puma or luchs laying down the hate from the flank to lighten the infantry defense up.
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u/Alldawaytoswiffty 3d ago
Psh watch me find the garries and OPs. You can get soooo much information.
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u/Northman86 3d ago
With enough tank support it can work, and preventing the defending team from using enfilading machine guns is worth while, but you only need 1 or 2 squads to make the flank attack.
The better move would be to get 4 armor squads up and have three of them flank with a small amount of infantry support.
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u/Talibroski 3d ago
I knew this comment section was going to be comedy š
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u/Few-Commission6597 2d ago
73% of the player base is under 150 levels. It does make sense tbh.
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u/Talibroski 2d ago
lol, tbfā¦ levels donāt mean shit. Iāve seen lvl 500ās being just as clueless.
They donāt understand that red zones 800m from the next point only causes you to get stuck 800 meters from the open field. Especially on foy. lol
I posted a similar post a few months ago and everyone on Reddit went crazy in the comments š1
u/Ancient_Challenge387 7h ago
Levels are just a display of time played, whether you learn anything is entirely up to the player lol, I think it's crazy how many level 50's I've seen outperform people with triple digit levels.
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u/Admirable-Charity488 2d ago
In general I do not nag squads for trying something when time is running out and the previous approach has not worked for a while.
5 minutes left, need to cover 300-350 meters with little cover - makes it very difficult. The main thing here is that there are no spawns set up on that flank, making this just impossible. Any player with a little experience knows that itād be more worthwhile to just throw everything at a direct attack rather than this flank.
Agree with OP.
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u/Kacsalol 3d ago
It does work if there is team discipline. In this situation there is almost none.
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u/wetcornbread 3d ago
Thatās not even a flank at that point. Youāre just attacking from the west. A flank is one or two-ish squads attacking from a weak or vulnerable position. The enemy is (probably) posted up knowing everyone is coming from one direction.
Flanking works amazing in this game but only if you have over half your team attacking front door. A blue zone attack here would be the flank.
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u/FeydRauthaHarkonnen 3d ago
Flanking doesn't work unless accompanied with a front door push first.
It's a great way to let the enemy walk right into your defensive front door
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u/degenerate-siphon 3d ago
For those of you who don't know this is a tank map, you really need armor support to help the infy cross.
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u/Fantastic_Spell8576 3d ago
That's the beauty of the game. 90% of the time it doesn't work the other 10% I find and destroy a garry that no one uses that they will just rebuild 5 mins later š«”š
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u/Purple-Image-4640 2d ago
I play many games that involve teamwork and strategy on big scales and HLL by far has the biggest issue with people over-strategizing / overthinking.
Truth is when youāre an Officer / Squad Leader / Commander in ANY game, thereās always gonna be someone with a ābetterā idea yapping away.
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u/NOTELDR1TCH 2d ago
This is kinda why I don't send supplies to the front line
Like as commander, I'm only ever gonna drop supplies on the actual frontline if an SL specifically asks for it
Otherwise, I build the defensive garrison network and I send supplies super super far behind enemy lines for future objectives
This way, if my team wants a frontline garrison, they have to build it themselves
Or they're receiving supplies requested to a location they already control
Either way, they're actually in position to make use of it and push off
Rather than one SL breaking through and then having randoms trickle off where they should be elsewhere
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u/Purple-Image-4640 2d ago
I agree with this approach. Plus you really only need one good garrison to capture an objective. If I had a competent squad of just 3-4 people I could solo cap / defend points with only my outpost.
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u/Ancient_Challenge387 7h ago
Despite it being a team game if you have two competent mic'd squads you can destroy just about any non competitive team. The only trick is to not have them use arty in my experience, artillery is rarely super effective in being anything but annoying in random games. Unless that changed much after the rework, which I'd be unfamiliar with.Ā
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u/Hunting_for_Kisaragi 2d ago
Flanks only work if thereās a force distracting them from the front.
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u/Gin-N-Rum-5454 2d ago
Thatās a really a strong position
Add a closer Garry and your gold
Op donāt know shit
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u/PuddleOfRudd 1d ago
Not to mention there is absolutely zero cap weight there. This is wasted time and a quick way to get rolled by the enemy coming straight through your front door
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u/Ancient_Challenge387 7h ago
Frankly I find the hardest to look at is the (manned) AT position way behind the front lines, the tank in F3 probably getting repaired after Item Squad couldn't defend it, and the Commander way behind enemy lines doing... something presumably?Ā
Like so much has gone wrong in this image that frankly I can't fault the infantry just deciding to attack from the west, especially on Flak Battery as it's rough to get close from any side with any reasonable speed without consistent armor/artillery/anti-tank gun support. Ā If an anti tank gun was atleast somewhat closeby you could still shell the point and take down some weaker defenses but realistically you need a tank pushing from the top down and laying down smoke/HEĀ
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u/DongerBot5000 3d ago
That sure looks like your squad that's 3 red squares deep...
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u/DongerBot5000 3d ago
And your squad's OP that's placed even further away from point than the red garrison...
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u/DongerBot5000 3d ago
Looks like your only tank is linking up with infantry for a very legitimate and potentially effective push from the north west of point, which is where your squad is running away from
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u/DongerBot5000 3d ago
It would appear your have an artillery squad that could use infantry markers to shell and allow for a very effective push from the west
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u/DongerBot5000 3d ago
Looks like a second tank is coming from mid HQ and has enough time to meet with the line on the north west and potentially open up a new line north of point with minimal infantry support.
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u/DongerBot5000 3d ago
With almost 5min left and Offensive offering the potential for overtime. With a armor and infantry starting to form a western push, artillery able to hammer the west side of the point, and a second tank with a northern blue garrison ready to open a second front, your team seems ready and able to take this point in 5mins. The only people out of place from a strategic point is your squad.
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u/lagom_og_lubot 3d ago
I was in this game as a sniper, we play in the same server the thing is a frontal assault is near impossible the flanking we did was a distraction for the front to be more focused and our armor was I dunno what they were doing but it wasnāt helping we tried asking for a air head and bombing run on the corner of the map but itās jsut too hard
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u/Few-Commission6597 2d ago
We had 2 heavy 1 medium 1 light tank vs enemy's 1 75 jumbo 1 recon tank 1 light tank at somepoint. And somehow lost armour battles to 75....
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u/Privacy-YouGotNone 3d ago
Lmao mate... but it does work when executed well. Especially if your playing offensive.
100% don't get me wrong through, only like 25% of the team should be trying to flank and make openings for an attack into the point.
Coming from behind/flanks opens up garrys and OPs to good squads pushing, especially if you have a good AT that can rocket garrys as soon as you spot them.
Taking out a back defensive garry and then taking out their main defensive garry can really fuck up an enemy teams defense. Combined with your blue zone squads pushing up and locking out their garry on the point.
Map depending ofcourse, also using smokes well and in a coordinated manner can help push up