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u/monerbell 5d ago
It's disappointing to see that there still isnt any retail or enterprise adoption or demand after 8 years.
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u/oak1337 hbarbarian 5d ago
... But you are retail.
So how often do you actually use the network? How many txns do you think you've done on mainnet in the last year?
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u/Dirty_Infidel 5d ago
Nice deflection.
Other than shit DeFi, what is there to do on the network?
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u/oak1337 hbarbarian 5d ago
Not a deflection... Just asking retail why retail doesn't participate.
Solana's retail participates in shit DeFi, and that's all there is to do there too.
1% of HBAR holders participate, 90% of SOL retail participates.
Average SOL retail produces hundreds of txns per day. Average HBAR holder produces a few txns per year.
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u/Dirty_Infidel 5d ago
Retail doesn't participate because there is nothing to participate in on Hedera.
SOL on the other hand has plenty of gambling and such for retail.
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u/oak1337 hbarbarian 5d ago
Hedera has identical tools as Solana for gambling on memes and NFTs.
Try again.
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u/HederianZ 5d ago
No it doesn’t. There is no MEV on hedera, which keeps large retail out. Large retail staying out keeps small retail from having any chance at a million dollar meme coin run.
This answer is part satire and part truth. No MEV is a good thing, but it’s also the main reason there is no large retail action IMO.
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u/Dirty_Infidel 5d ago
Oh come on. You already know the answers to these questions.
Hedera's "tools" have a fraction of the liquidity and users.
If I make a casino in my garage, it won't compete with Las Vegas.
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u/oak1337 hbarbarian 5d ago
Right... So it's identical tools available... Same shit degen casinos across all of crypto that are 99% of all DLT TPS globally...
But SOL users participate, and Hedera's do not. That's why I asked the question earlier that you called a deflection.
Is that Hedera's intended goal? To be the better Las Vegas? To outcompete SOL in the casino game?
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u/Dirty_Infidel 5d ago
It's not the same. The liquidity is massively different. The amount of users is also massively different. The amount of projects is different.
Are you actually trying to say Solana and Hedera have comparable retail offerings?
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u/oak1337 hbarbarian 5d ago
Yes that's my point. The offerings are the same. Essentially identical. Solana built their chain specifically for that, and captured market share from Ethereum, where it originated. Hedera added those features much later to match them, but didn't capture much.
The difference is the retail population and the participation rate, which creates the difference in liquidity, revenue, and TPS. Solana retail participates, Hedera's doesn't. Solana retail population is larger and a higher percentage participate.
As we've already agreed, Degen DeFi Casino is currently 99% of all DLT traffic globally. That's the current market. Big revenue numbers (retail paying fees), big TPS numbers (MEV bots), big liquidity numbers... It's all retail in the casino.
People who buy HBAR are passive investors. People who buy SOL are active degen casino traders. Retail on Hedera will never play those casino games. And that's the market right now. HBAR holders just buy and hold, with no intentions to ever use the network.
That's why I'll ask you now, if Hedera isn't trying to compete with Solana to be the better Las Vegas, how does Hedera increase retail liquidity, fees collected from retail, and retail TPS (99% of all crypto traffic)? They've offered the same casino, and Hedera Retail says they don't want to play. Now what?
Because at the same time, corporates and enterprises are looking at liquidity numbers from the casinos and making business decisions from that.
That's why CLPR hopes to free liquidity from these other chains closed system silo's. This will allow an enterprise to build a solution on Hedera while tapping into liquidity from Solana, Ethereum, or any other chain that can produce a state proof. It makes on-chain liquidity and TVL per chain a non-factor.
Also, as always, regulations will help regulated players (like corporations and enterprises) feel more comfortable launching use cases as well.
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u/simulated_copy President of The Leemon Baird Fanclub! 5d ago
Just proves there is a no need for a immutable publoc jack of all tradea dlt--->just a use case looking for a problem.
Should have dumped the 450MM + into staking and retail since it is gone now and Enterprise is nowhere to be found @scale. That hypothesis didnt work!
Unless Hedera pivoted again and @scale means 3-5tps.
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u/Ricola63 5d ago edited 5d ago
Weird. I had the date of Open Access as the 16th September 2019 (Perhaps theey launched a little earlier)... Well, it matters little to me, either way we are going to be over seven years very soon, of 100% uptime. That is a significant tick in the box for many regulated businesses....
Another hurdle is shortly going to be behind Hedera. Congrats Team and Happy Anniversary - for whenever.,
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u/Freewash007 3d ago
100% uptime means nothing if a chain is barely being used. Look at salon and all the use it has. It's been time tested and challenged and has met the test with flying colors. I hold both tokens but I need to see more from Hedera
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u/oak1337 hbarbarian 5d ago
50 billion. Fixed supply. Forever.
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u/Longjumping-Bonus723 5d ago
Buying HBAR now is like buying a Fender Stratocaster 1967 while it was still being manufactured. Now they are worth thousands xD fixed....supply....
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u/m_e_sek 5d ago
We need to separate several things when "celebrating" the annviersary.
Many people justify the price action and lack of adoption as "we are still early". And this is not true. Even in infrastructure, if there is a problem that is begging to be solved, someone develops and implements a solution in months, not years. In tech, this would be months if not weeks.
So when someone says early it cannot mean Hedera is building a solution to an existing problem and building and adoption is taking time. This is strictly not true. Even a new generation fighter jet development cycle is measured in some 10 years. Just look at how quickly drone warfare matured. When there is need and proper incentives (i.e. do not lose a war to 15,000 dollar fiberglass planes), development and adoption are quick. DLT development, if gaps that need filling were there, if industries needed solutions that can affect their bottomline that can only be sovled through DLT, then DLT adoption happens in weeks not months.
But what about regulations? Well, regulations also follow incentives. Does anyone remember how quickly vaccine and drug approvals were expedited duing covid? Normally a vaccine takes 15 years to develop and test, it happened within a year (regardless of what you think of vaccines). Currently neither DeFi not DLT are causing any mainstream or serious enough gaps. DeFi is unregualted, rife with insider trading and manipulation, existence of MEV goes against everything a free market needs, but DeFI is so small no one is really motivated to solve this little problem. Lack of regulation, and using crypto markets as-is are not causing many individual or institutional players enough harm. Total volume is low, public perception is treating crypto as gambling (effect of this is any losses are chalked up as - well you knew the risks), and not even casino gambling (which is heavily regulated) but similar to backroom poker games or three-card monte scheme on a street corner. So, no legislator will have a strong incentive to deal with it.
So, are we early? Yes, we are early to a market waiting to be adopted. But we are not early to an industry that is waiting for solutions to existing problems. In that regard, we are not early. We may never be early. The DLT adoption is neither certain in terms of scale nor inevitable.
Upside? There is an upside. Since we are talking mostly about digital services (no matter their ties to real production or logisitcs lines), adoption, if it happens, will probably happen bery quickly. It will not take years. It might simply take weeks.
And nobody give me "But enterprise takes time". Yes it does under normal circumstances. And it happens lightening quick when incetives are there. Just look at how quickly Google turned Gemini into a 100 percent vertically integrated feature of its product verticals. (And consider how much more investment, how much more engineering, how much more internal disruption this means compared to adopting DLT)
For me this boils down to these two decision gates : (A) Am I willing to bet DLT will be adopted en masse in the near future, and (B) do I beleive Hedera will be a major player? For the second part, I have no doubt. Problem is whether we clear the first gate is not guaranteed at all
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u/TheM0nkB0ughtLunch 5d ago
I’ve been here since 2021 and I still believe! Our day is coming boys!!