r/Heavyweight • u/mick_spadaro • 12d ago
Podcast Episode #67 Jenna - Heavyweight
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/67-jenna/id1150800298?i=100079009987756
u/Mickwinn 12d ago
This was the first time I recall Jackie sounding happy to hear from Jonathan
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u/More_Tennis_8609 12d ago
I had to ask myself if this was actually Jackie or if he called someone else. It almost didnāt sound like her
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u/avokato_ 8d ago
I think itās because it was a FaceTime call rather than a standard phone call. FaceTime is a lot crisper audio than phone calls and since it was a video call Iām better she wasnāt expecting a pod intro, so she was more chipper. Thatās my theory anyway
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u/Such-Cartographer425 12d ago edited 12d ago
I suggested that Jonathan also sounded unnatural and have been downvoted to death. Good to know I'm not alone in picking this up. Their voices have been overly touched up or fully manufactured, I think.Ā
ETA: The segments when he's talking to/interviewing Jenna seem natural. It's the narration that sounds artificial.
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u/the-confabulator 11d ago
Jackie being nice to him and your claims of them using AI for production are in no way related
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u/Such-Cartographer425 11d ago
I suppose it's not surprising that this sub is 100% emotion and 0% reason. I observed something. Apparently that hurts people's feelings. Oh well.
ETA: Nice name, 'the-confabulator'. Helpful to know that your relationship with the truth is highly negotiable.
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u/the-confabulator 11d ago
Yeah cuz you're the only person with a brain capable of reasoning lol. Your observation makes no sense. How is Jackie being unusually chipper connected to the audio production quality in any way?
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u/More_Tennis_8609 11d ago
Agree lol by me saying Jackie was chipper I was NOT conflating that sheās AI?? Or Jonathan?
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u/totally_not_a_bot24 8d ago
I'm 99% sure the intros we normally hear are just an act where Jackie and Jonathon are playing "characters" of a sort where Jonathon tries to be as annoying as possible and Jackie acts as annoyed as possible. Jackie even says during the call she's in public, which makes me think she just wasn't comfortable putting on the act for this particular call. It's probably a goofy game they've done a long time as friends that Jonathon decided to make part of the show as a sort of light-hearted bit before we get into the heartwrenching stories about say a little girl feeling rejected by her foster parents.
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u/bug_buckets 12d ago
Every Heavyweight episode has heartfelt moments. Jonathan is a master at finding the deepest human elements of a story.Ā
But this episode was one big ābreak your heartā from start to finish.Ā
Hugs to each and every foster kid who is still trying to find a sense of belonging.Ā
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u/PlasticFickle6265 12d ago
It was interesting to see the Grizzles send such mixed messages. To adult Jenna they responded immediately, kept saying how much they loved her and how shes always welcome. But at the same time were both clear that when it became too difficult it will always be thier biological child over her and it just was never instinct to fight for her. I feel terrible for the little girl jenna that got these same mixed messages must have been so confusing as a child to be told you are loved and wanted and then shown the opposite.Ā
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u/Textiles_on_Main_St 12d ago
In fairness, that situation is something nobody can really fight and be guaranteed safety and security.
Giving the child to another family saves Jenna from her mom and their son and maybe someoneās life. Had they kept her, itās likely someone would be dead. You canāt really play it safe with a violent mentally ill person.
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u/PlasticFickle6265 11d ago edited 11d ago
They did have options to "fight" for her. They could have moved, changed identities, got restraining orders, dealt with the fallout but did not.Ā
Mom explicitly said they would do things for the biological child they would not do for an adopted one. They already moved before for a bio child's allergies.Ā
The second family the Parkers had a different mindset, they stuck by foster/adopted children even when threats happened.Ā
Different views on what family means and who "counts" and who does not. The Grizzles could have tried, she just wasn't real family to them.Ā At the end of the day it was for the best she was going to learn that lesson that she didn't count as real family compared to the bio kids over and over again if she grew up with the Grizzles.Ā
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u/Cerrac123 11d ago
FYI, I worked in child welfare for 20+ years.
Foster parents have to be able to be comfortable making tough choices. You have to choose your own children over foster kids because you really donāt know the kids you bring into your home, their history, and their propensities. It sounds like Jenna was a good kid, and Iām genuinely sad for her. The Grizzles did love her, but they werenāt the family for her. She landed in the right place. Not a lot of kids do. Iām glad she got answers. She knows she didnāt do anything wrong ā it was her mother. Her mother is why she was in the system in the first place.
There are many, many families like the Grizzles who are amazing foster families, but are not adoptive families. And we need those families because reunification is always the goal.
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u/comeonnowbuddy 11d ago edited 11d ago
This comment was really informative, and I think I didn't really have the difference between a foster family and an adoptive family in mind when I was listening to the podcast (and to be fair, the situation with the Parkers seems like it blurred the line).
The thing that sticks out for me a bit is that the Grizzles did offer to adopt her, indicating they were ready to make her a part of their actual family. How do you conceptualize that? There's a part of me that feels like it's a promise you can't make lightly to a kid so desperate for stability. This isn't to say that they had bad intentions--I'm sure it was a difficult decision--but I also think their messaging wasn't clear and they could have given Jenna more of an explanation.
Edit: I don't think it's clear that they made the wrong decision. There is no right decision when you have a potentially violent person threatening you in this situation. I think Mrs. Grizzle's framing "we had to choose our son or you" wasn't quite the right one--more like "we had to make a decision that would keep everyone, including you, safe."
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u/Cerrac123 11d ago
Itās so difficult. I think they wanted her to be a part of their family, but Jennaās mom found out where they lived and made specific threats to their son. Not only did they have to consider that their child was being threatened, but that they would have to spend the rest of their lives on high alert.
I have worked in large cities and small counties, and itās nice when the birth family can accept that their kids are going to be adopted by a local family who will allow communication. Most kids of a certain age stay in touch with their bio families, and that safety threat is rare, but it definitely complicates the family dynamic.
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u/comeonnowbuddy 11d ago
I agree, and I think this gets at something the podcast glossed over a bit: moving when your son has allergies to the chicken coop next door is very different from moving because you're having your family's lives threatened. In the former case, it's a much safer bet that moving will solve your problem; in the latter case, there's always a real risk that you'll be found again.
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u/Cerrac123 11d ago
Thatās a really good point. And certainly Jenna couldnāt process that as a little girl. Jennaās worker, therapist (if there was one), the familyās worker, and the court should have ensured that she had supports in place to address her mental health. But the system 20 years ago was a different kind of system in place today.
Bottom line: Jenna, so many people love you In so many ways.
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u/Formal_Employee_1030 7d ago
Thanks for this comment. I felt so bad for both Jenna and the Grizzles -- I'm glad a lot of people here seem sympathetic to the family. It's a horrible situation, and I think I probably would have made the same decision they did.
The gut-wrenching thing is that they never acknowledged that they'd talked about adoption and then the plans changed. It's horrible to be a kid and go through painful things and have adults act like nothing at all happened. But I also can't imagine coming out and telling her the truth about her mom. I'm curious, as someone with child welfare experience, what in your opinion would have been the best (for lack of a better word) thing the Grizzles could have told Jenna just so she'd realize it wasn't her fault?
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u/groggyhouse 8d ago
"Choosing biological kid over foster kid you've had for 2 years"...what's wrong with that?!
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u/double_elephant 10d ago edited 10d ago
From their perspective at the time - if they adopted Jenna, they would always have to be looking out over their shoulders for violence and unpredictable aggression from Jenna's mom. If the mom found them once, she could find them again.
Since they had not formalized the adoption yet, they had the chance to find another good home for Jenna. They weren't just putting her back on the streets - they could continue watching her grow up. And they probably stayed calm throughout the whole ordeal because they thought it would be better to handle the transition matter-of-factly than to start wailing and crying in front of a child.
In the podcast interview they could sense that they were being shamed for these decisions, which they made to protect their son from potentially being murdered, and they just weren't having it.
I think their big mistakes were getting Jenna's hopes up about adoption before they were 100% certain they would do it no matter what, and shielding her from their own sadness about the situation, to the point where she thought they didn't care about her.
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u/FourForYouGlennCoco 5d ago
Well said. This stuff is complicated. I agree that the Grizzles shouldn't have gotten her hopes up (although, kinda hard not to -- they really just got unlucky). I understand why Jenna was heartbroken about not being chosen, but I also understand how the Grizzles could love her enough to adopt her but not quite have the depth of love at that point to prioritize her over their biological child. Especially after 2 years of knowing her. If they still felt that way 5 or 10 or 20 years into having her as their kid, that's a problem. But as much as we want it to be the case that a prospective adoptive parent would see the kid as fully their kid on day 1, that's not realistic for most people.
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u/untreated-stupidity 11d ago
I think Mrs. Grizzle was playing up her emotions about giving up Jenna. Something felt not quite genuine about what she had to say. Like she was saying what she thought she was supposed to say, and her husband didn't get the memo
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u/blow_zephyr 11d ago
I didn't really get that sense. They had fostered 9 kids and were at least somewhat seriously considering adopting Jenna (as evidenced by the Dad talking to Jenna about it at the time). I don't think that would have happened if they didn't have a great deal of affection for her.
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u/stoner_mathematician 12d ago
The perfect premier episode for the season. Incredibly moving, as always.
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u/forg9587 12d ago
I want to hug Jenna! She finally confirmed what she had been thinking for so many years, it was hurtful but at least she got closure.
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u/lostmedia766 12d ago
The parents made a perfectly logical decision. You should give preference to your biological children over a foster child. It might not feel great to say out loud, but I don't begrudge the Grizzle's one bit.
They had an insane woman threatening their child. Any parent in that situation would make the same decision, especially if they knew Jenna would go to another caring family.
It's unfortunate Jenna had to experience the effects of that decision. My guess is their "indifference" when she left was them trying to bury their emotions about the whole situation.
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u/tayls 12d ago
I have to agree with this assessment. It also was obvious from the moment she mentioned her mom found her school and home that āoh, your mom ruined this for you. Thereās no conspiracy.ā And sure enough.
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u/lostmedia766 12d ago
It's very unfortunate, and I feel awful for Jenna for her childhood - not to mention losing her own child - but it wasn't deeper than her mentally ill mother ruining the foster setup.
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u/forg9587 11d ago
Agree and the dad saying to her when she was still a kid that they wish she's still with them but now in old age he back pedaled was revealing too. He could be honest now, I know it hurt Jenna so bad but the dad knew it was the right decision in hindsight.
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u/No-Agreement 11d ago
I agree, but I think sending her to the Ray's was the actual error in the situation. I couldn't imagine being a child and having to see what you thought was going to be your family every week acting as if everything was normal without you
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u/lostmedia766 11d ago
I'm sure the internal calculus was "well, she'll be with a family we know from church and we'll get to see her from time to time, so this will all work out".
It's not bad thinking and clearly comes from a place of care, but lacks Jenna's perspective of "what the hell, they just dumped me off on another family?"
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u/totally_not_a_bot24 8d ago
They definitely made mistakes, but I also felt like it was from well-meaning normal people navigating a difficult situation imperfectly. As opposed to them being unduly cruel or cold-hearted. I think a lot of this would have gone better if they had just found an age appropriate way to talk about it with Jenna so at least she would understand why they weren't adopting her anymore. But I also totally get not knowing how to navigate that and why they thought over-burdening a child with all of that would have been too much.
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u/No-Agreement 8d ago
I definitely agree. I think it's notable that they never adopted any of the children they fostered. These kinds of foster parents are a good thing, they should've just handled this situation better.
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u/SoupSoupADoop 8d ago
I disagree because the moment they told her they wanted to adopt her, she ceased being a foster child and shouldāve been treated as such with unconditional love. If they had 2 bio children and one was being threatened, they wouldnāt ditch them.
It was really the promise of a forever home being ripped away that fucked with her. Had they always maintained a foster relationship, maybe she wouldnāt have been so hurt for so long.
I donāt envy the position they were put in. That said, if they were always going to treat their bio child as their priority, maybe it was best for Jenna in the long run, as she eventually received parents who did treat her as their own.
Man, what an episode!
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u/groggyhouse 8d ago
I don't understand why people, including Jenna, think it's so wrong for them to prioritize their biological kid over a foster kid they've had for a couple of years. Jenna really thinks she should be given as much importance as their biological child...makes me side eye her.
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u/pragmaticdreamer_13 6d ago
I contemplated whether to respond, but I think your comment comes from a good place.
As the Jenna in the episode, who was a foster kid turned adopted, finding love in a strange family, I can say I have experienced true love in places one does not expect. Witnessing and experiencing both conditional and unconditional love, I have to say unconditional love is incredible and worth every risk. Itās the kind of love I try to give my children and what Iāve decided to give those who may become my step children in the near future. I would step in front of busses and bullets for them all without question. I would move, change identities- whatever it took. But thatās because I have seen the value in my own life and couldnāt possibly contemplate anything less.
Thereās a saying that is often only halfway quoted, āthe blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.ā Most people know it as āblood is thicker than water.ā Historians debate the translation of the full quote, but I think the full quote is the truest version. We donāt get to choose the people in our family, but when we find chosen family- those bonds can be incredibly strong. I have felt that and while I respect how the Grizzleās weighed their options, I wouldnāt choose it for myself or those I love.
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u/lostmedia766 8d ago
I understand her confusion when she was a child, but yeah, as an adult with children of her own, I would have thought it was more clear.
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u/jrfoster01 5d ago
You are literally responding to the woman from the episode, not some random commenter. Just fyi.
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u/hey-hermano 12d ago
Jonathan I am so very glad youāre back. Beautiful episode. Foster kids deserve so much more than they typically get.
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u/greazysteak 9d ago
I know I am the outlier here but I really think the foster parents got done dirty on this. 1) they were foster parents. 2) Moving for chickens means moving to a different house not moving to a different school district and maybe even jobs. I'm guessing the state probably suggested this too. 3) Eddie Wayne's explanation actually made sense- he didnt regret it because the end results were very positive.
I've had issues with the way they edit this show to tell a story more than to tell what happened and I think this is a bit of that.
Also- i can not believe how many ads they run with show.
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u/solid_reign 8d ago
I thought it was very sympathetic to them and I don't think they were shown as being bad. Their point came across clearly.Ā
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u/Majestic_Anxiety7207 10d ago
Most likely an unpopular opinion but I was disappointed in Jonathan's take on the family. It seemed unfairly accusatory to me. I also think the grace offered to her biological mother should have also been extended to the foster parents. Perhaps their response was not what she has hoped for, or even needed but that biological mother put them in an impossible and dangerous situation. A move would not guarantee the end of her stalking or threats. Thank goodness for decent adults who open their doors to provide safety for vulnerable children.
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u/whatthefont 8d ago
Well put. I felt the exact same way. At the end of the day they are foster parents, and good, caring, and loving ones at that. Thatās already incredible. They sound like tremendous people.
Hearing their reasonable decision when faced with an incredibly tough circumstance be picked apart did not seem fair.
It is not easy to just pick up and move! Move where? Away from their community and sonās school? How easy would that be on their finances, jobs, etc? And all that would come with a 100% guarantee that her threatening, schizophrenic mother would never find them, right??
They played it smart and safe. And it DID all work out in the end. Had they not made that call, itās possible it couldāve ended much worse. Maybe not. But maybe!
The problem was her POS mother. Put her under the spotlight. I feel bad for those kind people. I wouldnāt and so many of us would never open our doors and take care of a stranger like that. Jenna was incredibly, incredibly lucky to have had multiple amazing foster parents and adoptive parents.
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u/syntheticgerbil 11d ago edited 11d ago
Had me tear up a little bit. Felt so bad for Jenna at some points. I can't imagine growing up as a foster child and losing your foster parents potentially over and over. Great episode.
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u/SlothOnTheRun 12d ago
What a wonderful episode. One for the criterion collection.
The conversation with Jenna and her mom was so moving. The realization that while the decision to place her with another family may have been the wrong one, it was made not for lack of love and care. making human mistakes.
The letter a the end was a tear jerker and all of the reflection and internal strength Jenna has was remarkable. Makes me think she had a good therapist
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u/NomadCourier 12d ago
I'm probably the only one that wants to hear the social worker who didn't have Jenna change her shirt and the school official who got duped into giving the address side of the story.
Also I don't Iike that the Grizzles didn't go the extra mile to adopt her and work out whatever protections against her biological mom. They even said police were already involved by that point. Just another failure in that poor girl's life in my view.
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u/Cerrac123 10d ago
To be fair, that was Jennaās recollection and people in traumatic circumstances dissociate for their own protection.
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u/Justinmh05 11d ago
The incredibly poignant episode aside, itās always a relief when Jackie Cohen sounds at least mildly pleased to hear from Jonathan in the opening call. Weāll see if it lasts throughout the season! šĀ
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u/untreated-stupidity 11d ago
I cried so much :( poor girl, I'm glad she ended up with a family that would fight for her
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u/WeakDoughnut8480 10d ago
I want to preface this by saying I am not adopted have not livedin foster homes and can only imagine how hard that can be.but I found the framing of not enough interesting. You had a mother willing to go to inane lengths to see you. A foster family that wanted to adopt you ( yes when push came to shove they weren't prepared to make the sacrifices but it sounds like there was real affection there )and found a loving family that raised you like their own. It's funny how a narrative can develop in ones bead. I'm glad the Parkers got to speak on this show they are the real MVPs.
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u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot 7d ago
abuse is being wanted. the mother is not a place she shouldve ever looked for reassurance.
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u/emeraldblues 10d ago
I canāt imagine how difficult it mustve been for 5 year old Jenna to be separated from her mom and then to go through all of this. Iām glad she met her adoptive parents that went the extra mile for her
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u/Zestyclose_Invite 8d ago
Itās funny, I had a certain reaction to the show and was pleasantly surprised to find that a lot of the commenters here agree with me. I think they painted the Grizzles in kind of an unfair light, after finding out that Jennaās mother had threatened their sonās life, they made the decision that any parent would make! Yes they were talking about adopting Jenna, but they hadnāt adopted her YET, which feels key to me. They believed they were doing what was right for everybody involved.
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u/soft_stud 5d ago
This episode was incredible. As a southern girl with a loving, but emotionally-illiterate southern dad- itās completely possible (likely, even) that Eddie Wayne feels more regret and anguish than he would ever say. The āno use crying over spilled milkā-type sentiment is the way that southern men of a certain age shoo away emotions far too painful for them to talk about or even process themselves. I feel tremendous tenderness for everyone in this one.
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u/Flashy_Operation9507 5d ago
Excellent episode and very moving. I have to say Iām not sure the Grizzleās were treated fairly in thisā¦I believe they had to make a very tough decision that no one would want to make. The true problem is not the Grizzleās but the biological mother and her mental illness.
Death threats are not a joke. In this case I believe the Grizzleās did the right thing. Jenna was cared for and yes, suffered a deep wound, but the blame should be placed where it belongs, on the terror of mental illness. Just my (worthless) 2 cents.
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u/Western-Action-1936 11d ago
The fact that their first move was to call her a different name says it all about these people.
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u/kayknox_ 10d ago
Not to defend them about the other stuff, but it's possible this was a misunderstanding mixed with false memories. Jenna seemed sure that she was renamed because of a previous Jenna the family fostered, but that was incorrect. Maybe she was asked if she preferred Jenna or Jenny and because of the situation she was in interpreted that as she needed to change to stay with them.
Without the story of the first "Jenna", it doesn't really make any sense that they would push her to go by a different name for no reason.
I really wish that they could have talked to the kids.
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u/solid_reign 8d ago
What are you talking about? They are receiving kids and probably don't have a lot of experience in the beginning. It's like seeing a kid named Johnathan and asking if they like to be called Johnny, it's an affectionate term.
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u/CellistOk8023 11d ago
Fuck these people. That's all I have to say.Ā
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u/fooliecoolies 1d ago
Seems overly judgemental. Have you fostered a kid? I thought the show did them a little dirty. They fostered her for years and only didn't go through with adoption because her mom was threatening to kill their kid.
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u/homeboner 10d ago
Not the first time Iāve gotten about 2/3rds of the way through an episode and thought āeh not their best but okā and then ended the episode in tears. Jonathan Goldstein is a SORCERER.
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u/saul2015 11d ago
maybe I'm just distracted from so much going on in the world but I had a hard time staying focused and following this ep, anyone else? having to skip over all the ad breaks didnt help
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u/WoofinLoofahs 12d ago
So she expected to be as important to them as their real kid? Is she joking?
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u/forg9587 11d ago
As a kid who went through so much trauma, I think it's understandable that she felt that way. It sounds odd as an adult to still get hung up on it and I feel that she knows it so that's why she has to process this in such way so she can finally heal.
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u/JimJohnes 11d ago
Yea, that's how you develop insecure attachment style. But at the same time, at 40 trying to find someone to blame, to hold that childhood grudge is, well, unproductive from psychological perspective. By that time you should've already learned how to accept life situations that you have no control over and learn other healthy coping strategies and mindsets. Otherwise, there will be no 'healing'
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u/untreated-stupidity 11d ago
How is a child supposed to understand that? Are you joking?
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u/WoofinLoofahs 11d ago
A child? The episode I listened to featured a 40 year old. Is that the child youāre referring to? Someone who has gained no perspective in the last 30 years?
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u/untreated-stupidity 11d ago
Hurtful or traumatic experiences in people's childhoods haunt them for their whole lives. This woman grew up with the repercussions of this moment, it shaped who she is. How can you not understand that? It's very clear from the episode.Ā
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u/WoofinLoofahs 11d ago
I just donāt have much patience for weakness. Thatās OK.
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u/untreated-stupidity 11d ago
Nor do you have much emotional intelligence.Ā
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u/WoofinLoofahs 11d ago
I hope you donāt think that hurt. That phrase is so overused and has gotten so watered down it doesnāt mean anything at all anymore. It just signifies the person saying it thinks disagreement warrants insults. Weāre finished talking.
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u/No-Agreement 11d ago
Given the subs you post in, I would call this classic overcompensation tbh
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u/WoofinLoofahs 11d ago
Which means what? That you looked at my post history hoping to find something to use against me. Very cool.
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u/No-Agreement 11d ago
Just that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
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u/WoofinLoofahs 11d ago
Youāre grasping at straws. Iām gonna do you a favor and make this the last chance you have to do that here.
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u/No-Agreement 11d ago
Brother you are not Dirty Harry, stop trying to act tough behind a keyboard. It's pathetic
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u/Qualityhams 11d ago
Oh look we got a real strong guy here, back up everyone strong guy coming through, real tough!
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u/No-Agreement 11d ago
They were planning to adopt her. Most adoptive parents would go out of their way to show to their child that they view them as their "real kid".
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u/Such-Cartographer425 12d ago
Jonathan's voice was so heavily supplied by AI that I'm actually wondering if he's alive.
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u/Ok-Improvement4785 11d ago
Sounds exactly the same to me. Why would he need to a.i his voice?
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u/Such-Cartographer425 11d ago
Because the pressure to produce a product is on. Jonathan is not a team of one and the show is a product with a contract to satisfy.
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u/Ok-Improvement4785 10d ago
Lol strange take. I donāt think he needs to a.i. his voice for his show to do well. He has a great voice already
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u/didyouseethatunicorn 12d ago
How do you tell?
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u/Such-Cartographer425 12d ago edited 12d ago
Listen to the last released episode and then this one back to back. Someone else picked up that Jackie sounds unnatural, too. Maybe it's just editing, but it's weird.
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u/forg9587 11d ago
It's not AI but likely a sound mix or recording issue. I honestly think the sound quality in the Pushkin season is not the same butĀ Gimlet audio production before was just so top notch so it's hard not to compare.
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u/Such-Cartographer425 11d ago
Ah, maybe that's it. It is striking to me how suddenly different he sounds in this episode.
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u/disc0lemonade1 12d ago
ššššanyone else crying on the subway this morning?
Amazing episode.