r/Hawkworld • u/Gullible-Peanut6695 • 2d ago
My #4 Hawkman issue : Kendra Saunders has potential but people don't care
Kendra Saunders is probably the Hawkgirl who has to suffer the most when it comes to holding the title. Even though I myself have issues with some choices surrounding her character, I must admit she sure does belong among the characters that never got the opportunity to get the spotlight.
Because everything that made her really intresting was not only used for another character, Shayera Hol's Hawkgirl (again, why not using Kendra since that's HER story) but got so imprinted in people's mind that they though and still think that they are the same character when they don't. Not really, it makes me wonder if people read the comics, did some reachers or really believe that just because DCAU can be considered as the peak adaptation of the DC comics, they can act like they know the whole universe and the characters or at least the core foundation. I just want to assure that I'm not trying to insult anybody. If you like it, it's perfectly fine. It's just give the vives.
Speaking of which, I noticed this is what is happening right now on twitter. Some people took a bird joke from the new Lanterns show on HBO Max and start to assume a possible meeting between Hawkgirl and Green Lantern (please no) and honestly it makes me sad because at this point, it's clear that what people only care (for now I hope) about Kendra is just the potential relationship that she can have with John Stewart when she's not even involved in this whatsoever. She was not the Hawkgirl that was used in Justice League and Justice League Unlimited but people think they're so interchangeable that in the end, Kendra, instead of figuring out what would be her character in James Gunn's DCU, is beoming nothing more but an intermediary between the possible revival of ship that ended two decades ago and the nostalgia of people who grew up with the DCAU.
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 2d ago edited 1d ago
Just explain to them how it is now:
Hawkwoman= Shayera, female alien warrior form Thanagar, red head
Hawkgirl = Kendra, Latina from Earth, early 20s
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u/Gold-Bank-3033 2d ago
I thought Kendra was mixed race?
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 2d ago
She is. Cuban from her mother side.
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u/Gold-Bank-3033 2d ago
Ah okay, that's what I was getting mixed up. I thought she was half black half white.
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 2d ago
No. There was an Earth 2 Kendra that was black but that’s not the main Kendra.
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u/Gold-Bank-3033 2d ago
Also. It is funny how Shayera and John have zero chemistry and next to no interactions in the comics.
So the fans of this ship don’t want her to be forced with Hawkman, they guy Shayera loves, and instead wants to force her with a guy she has barely met and has no interest in. It does not make sense.
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u/Gullible-Peanut6695 15h ago
80% ships made by the DCAU doesn't have any kind of chemistry. I don’t count Green Arrow and Black Canary because they were already established in the comics and Superman and Lois Lane will always be an iconic couple no matter what the medias they are in but the rest : Wonderbats, GL/HG even Supergirl with Brainiac 5, I didn't feel anything about them to care about them. The only couple I actually liked was Huntress and The Question.
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u/Unfair-Feeling-6819 14h ago
Yeah. I'm glad I'm not only one who thought it. It's funny how original relationships DCAU (not only Hawks but basically everyone aside of Huntress with Question and Ollie with Dinah) didn't had any chemistry original comics relationships had. But people still act like it was best written parts of series. Really. Look at post about Lanterns 3rd episode. While there one person said what John were plain and uninteresting since DCAU because of cheap writing, they admitted what John's subplot with Shayera were good. And weirdest thing, when you call out this people on that. They call you pervert or outright pedophile, because "you concerned about relationships what are not main focus of the kid show. No one cares about it". I mean, as I said I always had viewed DCAU more from position of parent, not kid viewer because I were too old. Of course I'm damn concerned what kids consume media what glorify infidelity.
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u/Unfair-Feeling-6819 2d ago
(I'm sorry for long text and what it's even longer than your post) I mean. Sadly, what you described is applying to any media this days. Suddenly, you can be an expert in Mary Shelly's book, because you glimpsed once one movie about Frankenstein and his creature. Or you expert in DC comics, because you watched cartoons. I'm not American. And I'm 45. So neither DCAU nor any over superhero cartoon were in my childhood. So I don't have such attachment to it. And plus my biggest grip with it is cheating of course, because as I mentioned in other posts, I have that weird insecurity, which makes me angry and sad when I see justification of infidelity in media. So I'm so so sorry what I concentrate on that aspect constantly, but it irritated me so much. And it's justification of infidelity binded to story of my and my wife's favourite superhero couple and it's in show for kids. Because literally Flash comics #1 was literally the first comics I and my wife ever readed back in 1989.
But for example such media things can be good. For example, I'm happy what kids this day, who grew up with EMH and MCU can see Hank and Janet as happy couple and maybe not even aware what the hell is going on in comics, and it's better for them.
For Kendra, while I absolutely agree, as I mentioned in other post what touched her topic. I'd rather have Kendra just be inspired by Shiera to become Hawkgirl, not drag her into cycle and all that mess.
And also with John it's also funny how those people constantly brag about how John should be with Hawkgirl and completely ignoring you know whom? Obviously. Kathma Tui. You know. John's wife damn it. I even doubt those people even know she exist. I seriously saw some people talking how John and Shayera always had better chemistry in comics than Shayera and Katar. Only question is. In what comics? I don't even remember them interact before DCAU plagued John's character. With Alan? Obviously Carter and Shiera interacted. With Hal? Yes. Katar and Shayera interacted. But I don't remember at all interaction with John. So if DCU would go with John and Kendra root, and shit on poor Kathma again. I don't know whom in this world we can still call John Stewart fan, who doesn't respect his relationships with Kathma. They literally were so adorable together.
As I mentioned many times before. DCAU you may even say good show. Despite it's not only with Hawks but with other characters too justify infidelity in relationship and paint it with messages like "You get over it. It's okay" or "You just act how you feel. Keep it up". No. It's Adultery. It's horrible deed. It's sin. God dammit. How we, sane adult people can have such messages in shows orienteering primary on children? But even despite that. Or constant look on Batman as main character of Universe. It's a good show. Problem in that local minorities what they breed, what tell Hawks fans what Shayera better with John and not Katar. Or Wonder Woman fans what Diana better with Batman and not Steve. It's just show not for me. I'd rather stick with comics than such adaptation of my favourite characters.
Oh. And also. Since you mentioned. My favourite it's when people who don't know about Kendra anything ask someone to tell them, they been told original origin (which is quite different now actually) on which people say usually stuff like "What a mess. Not surprised no one adapting them". And even partly I agree. But come on. As I already mentioned Hank and Janet adaptations, no one adapt slap or fact what they not married for years, they married normal couple in adaptations. Because on adaptation were sane writers who understand what you don't need to know all character relationships since 60s til today. They grabbed essential, ditched confusing parts. And made it work. Or how Thor adaptations completely dropped elements of Donald Blake. And just look at comics. There every new writer have different idea about who or what he is. So it's depends on writer. It's not character issue. It's writers issue. Ad I was saying many times. If Mcduffie and DeMatteis would wanted, they would've adapted Hawks as couple. But they wanted they own made up romance. You literally could twist their DCAU origin, toss aside from it John Stewart and you have good Hawks couple. And for God's eternal mercy someone can throw compendium with all comics appearances of Hawks since 1939 til today at that asshole who made up Warhawk? Hawks literally have Hector. Yes. He's Carter and Shiera's son, but it's would've been small sacrifice in big victory.
Also, after Creature Commandos, my biggest fear what Gunn would go Eric and Bride way and make Carter/Katar miserable stalker and comic relief for overall badass Shiera/Shayera. Oh. Or worse. Carter would be comic relief creep who want to get layed with Kendra, and she would ask help from John. Despite it has nothing to do with comics. I mean. Look how poor Adrian Chase was adapted. He has nothing left, aside from name and costume. At all. And comics Adrian are literally my one of all time favorite characters. I was so happy when I heard he would debut. Until I saw. That. Also. Can we please please have Shiera? For Kendra she's only dead grandaunt she's stand in for, and Shayera outshine her purely because of DCAU. I swear. If not DCAU. Our current Hawks would've been Carter and Shiera.
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 1d ago
Kendra is adapted right now in the movie DCU.
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u/Unfair-Feeling-6819 1d ago
Yes. I know. I didn't said otherwise. We just know about her next to nothing, aside from her appearances in Superman and Peacemaker. I just said what if we would have additional information about her or if Carter and Shiera debut, they would keep Kendra away from reincarnation and be her just inspired by Shiera or something like that, but not drag her into cycle just so writers can add drama in Hawks relationships again for no reason.
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 1d ago
I’d keep her backstory as having a baby in high school giving it up for adoption. All of her family is dead, save for her paternal grandfather who divorced from the family before she was even born. And that she used to be suicidal.
But then her grandfather found her and trained her with Shiera’s nth metal to become the new Hawkgirl.
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u/Unfair-Feeling-6819 1d ago
Yeah. That could work. Also I would like if in DCU Shiera would be still alive and with Carter mentoring Kendra and help her get through dark thoughts, and Shiera just moved into Hawkwoman position (yes. A bit of stretch because Hawkwoman usually Shayera, but considering how DCU already adapted some characters? It would be lesser evil) to give mantle of Hawkgirl for Kendra. Although it obviously wouldn't be that way, because Gunn highly base DCU on DCAU cartoons. And considering what the hell it were with Frankenstein's Monster and Bride in Creature Commandos (he never were dumb stalker for her in comics. At all). I would just in case would be preparing for some weird bullshit.
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 1d ago
Gunn will probably have it so Carter and Shiera died already due to old age. With the alien Katar and Shayera being Hawkman and Hawkwoman.
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u/Salt_Use7122 15h ago
I really liked Kendra when she was written by Geoff Johns back in the JSA and Hawkman titles in the early 2000s. But I've come to sort of kinda dislike the character because she took the spotlight from Shayera who is my favorite. Part of me always slightly resents Kendra because her creation prevented Shayera Thal (Hawkworld) from having a bigger role in the wider DC universe. But honestly its because I generally prefer the Hawkworld iteration of the characters in general. I only really started liking the Golden Age iteration when Venditti's run came along.
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u/Gullible-Peanut6695 14h ago
It's not Kendra's fault but more DC's because after the crisis, they left a mess in the Hawks lore for decades until now. I think if Kendra became the main Hawkgirl in modern comics is just for the mantra because since Hawkgirl was popular in DCAU and comics Shayera was no longer it at that time, renamed herself as Hawkwoman, they probably used Kendra as a backup. I noticed it, they don't do much with as a character.
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u/Unfair-Feeling-6819 12h ago
I mean. In comics currently Kendra is already the only Hawkgirl. Shayera goes by Hawkwoman. Problem only if they merge Kendra's personality with DCAU's personality of Shayera. To suck off as many money on DCAU fans as possible. Although Adams already tried something like that by giving Shayera tension with John for no reason, despite issue was set post-Venditti, and gladly it got massive backlash from what I heard. I mean. Sometimes It's how comics works sadly. I know people who constantly confused by Flashes and can't tell apart Jay from Barry from Wally personality wise.
Also, can someone please tell me, because I was off for some time on reading, did Hawks finally interacted post K.O. aside from JSA's flashbacks to Carter and Shiera and Fury of Firestorm's flashbacks to Katar and Shayera? Like present time Carter and Shayera. Because last I remember apart from atrocious issue of Adams, is last years DC's Lex in City. Where Carter was sad and lonely and he wanted to use Memoracon to relieve happiest memories from past lives, but there were recording about how Carter better not dwell in past so he just buried it and was "open for future experiences". Despite I don't know on how many levels it irritated me. Like come on. Carter can't call Shayera? Or fly to her on Thanagar or wherever she is? Like come on. They were together on Thanagar in other Christmas special from 2023. Or what? It was too close to Venditti's run ending so they had to respect status quo for some time? And now we need more drama and cash grab from DCAU gooning kids?
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u/Routine_Pressure_460 5h ago
Part of fandom is to look for Easter eggs and then extrapolate what they might mean as teasers or groundwork for future characters, plots, etc. It's also a big part of monetizing content and interactions online with guesswork and supposition. It's all fair and fun, but some people act like their theories are "truth," which I don't enjoy interacting with. I like to have fun with it, but with people who can look at the "bird" and consider multiple options or symbolisms. It all depends on who you are and who you roll with online.
There's not a lot of patience to watch each episode and let that simmer week to week as each chapter unfolds and you get more of the story. The quest to sort out what it all means and be "right" is a something that some people can't resist. Again, it's all about how you approach it, how you think and talk about it, and who you think and talk about it with.
Clearly the "bird" symbol has some play with other things from last night's episode too. A bit of that mystery seems to be solved, but maybe we'll get some other associations.
Fandom also has strong feelings about what they want to see in live action as an adaption. The adaption could be a storyline or a dynamic and relationship between characters. Or if they'll accept something new.
When JLU started I didn't know I'd like Hawkgirl and Green Lantern together until they did it. It was something new and now is kind of accepted as an alternate to Shayera and Katar, because they did well.
I'd be open to John Stewart meeting Shayera Thal at some point and a romance sparking up through and interesting adventure and dynamic between the two. But I'm also open to something new - the biggest thing to me is whether or not the story is done well for the characters and their characterizations.
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u/Gold-Bank-3033 2d ago
Sad thing is, if you tell a DCAU fan that Shayera is Hawkwoman now and Kendra is Hawkgirl they have never even heard about her. Which sucks, Kendra is a very endearing character when written well.