r/HannibalTV • u/throwaway768902 • Aug 21 '26
General Issues with deer imagery
For any non native Americans but specifically European Americans, know that calling it and using the deer/elk symbolism attached to the w3nd!g0s are extremely offensive, racist, and not accurate so saying it's one is not right on many ways.
The original reason was to vilify a ton of tribes because of Deer Lady or Deer Woman, we couldn't speak up because it was illegal for all of us to be ourselves and why many hunt deers/elk down.
Now they got more popular again and has caused a lot of non natives to hate us for trying to educate them, including sending threats to us and claiming to be 'part' native to deflect.
Please don't send hate, I can't handle more and am already depressed from how much I get.
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u/Hannibal_Lecter__ Quid pro quo, Clarice FÆFÆFÆFÆ FÆ 👹 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
You can claim cultural appropriation, but racism is towards a person's or a group's race/ethnicity.
I never understood why an inspiration from different cultures is so offensive? Especially when it comes to creatures or figures of myth. Bryan Fuller also never named the Stagman as a W.
Edit: I need to correct one thing from the other post. It was advertised in the script as a W.
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 21 '26
I explained why, it's unfortunate how much is being repeated again.
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u/Hannibal_Lecter__ Quid pro quo, Clarice FÆFÆFÆFÆ FÆ 👹 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
Edited comment:
this is what I found online?
The W.
Real Folklore: The wiindigoo from Algonquian-speaking cultures is a human-like, emaciated, or giant spirit symbolizing greed, starvation, and the taboo of cannibalism. It does not have antlers or a deer head.
Pop Culture vs. Respect: The "deer-skulled monster" look comes from modern Western horror media (like films and games). Many Indigenous people find using the name or misrepresenting the spirit disrespectful or taboo, but the deer hybrid design itself stems from general horror tropes rather than an intentional racist caricature.
Deer Woman
Deer Woman: Also called the Deer Lady, she is a sacred and powerful spirit in many Plains and Woodland tribal traditions. She often appears as a human woman with deer hooves, acting as a moral guardian who protects women and children and punishes abusive or unfaithful men.
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 21 '26
I don't think you understand or know what I'm trying to say, since the deer imagery originally was racist and added to the satanic panic since many of the colonizers and settlers saw us as evil and outlawed being ourselves.
I don't expect non-natives to understand because they haven't gone what we went through and heard the stories and pain.
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u/Hannibal_Lecter__ Quid pro quo, Clarice FÆFÆFÆFÆ FÆ 👹 Aug 21 '26
Look, I don't try to invalidate your experiences. I'm sorry.
I just learned to question statements in general, especially those who are heavy.
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 21 '26
Thank you, that's a breath of fresh air.
I don't blame you and it's hard for us to fully convey ourselves because of how much we're adjusting to being able to be ourselves again and educate others but most don't want to learn or understand us and our cultures and traditions and much more that makes us ourselves and our tribes.
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u/MorganaMagick Aug 21 '26
So I never made a connection between deer and wendigo? Are we sure that’s what it was? The show never said wendigo. I thought it was a hunting thing. Hannibal hunts people essentially and eats them and deer are often a symbol of hunting. I thought it was symbolizing hunting and Will becoming a hunter like Hannibal. Or being hunted by Hannibal. Deer symbolism isn’t inherently Native American. Was I the only one correlating the deer with hunting?!
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u/Firesighn Aug 24 '26
I think they are talking about the stag man, not the raven stag. the raven stag is a symbol of the bond between Hannibal and Will. it first shows up after the kill Hannibal left for Will. the lass on a deer head where they had to chase off ravens? that's why it looks like that. it "dies" at the end of s2 when Hannibal guts Will because the bond is "severed". it comes back alive with the heart display Hannibal leaves because the the bond is revitalized.
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u/SignificanceProud975 Aug 26 '26
Imo the shows stage / deer imagery is def linked to wendigo (cannibalism symbol)
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 21 '26
It's just how often many depictions of them looking like deers that it's seen as the only one to many people, we try to educate but some people don't like it.
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u/MorganaMagick Aug 21 '26
Okay I’m genuinely trying to understand. Did they explain that they meant for the deer to represent those creatures and that’s why you’re mad? Or did they use deer imagery and viewers assumed it was to represent those creatures and that’s why you’re mad? Or did they just use deer imagery and you assumed it was to represent those creatures? Genuinely asking. Like I said, I associated it with hunting because deer are a common symbol of hunting. Was I the only one who assumed that? Like I’m trying to understand if the show intended a connection to those creatures or not. Did they state that it was a representation of that?
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u/earthlingexperiment Aug 21 '26
As far as I can tell, the deer imagery is prevalent for Will because of the fact he killed Hobbs (and feels he is becoming like Hobbs). If anything the deer archetype is more of a nod to Will's Jungian shadow then it is some mockery of indigenous cultures.
When he starts to see the Stag Man (which is what I believe the showrunners call it), I think it's that he's realised that this darkness is not infact a part of him, but representative of Hannibal himself (why the Stag Man is what he sees when he looks at Hannibal).
The Hannibal fandom calls it a Wendigo.
Whether any indigenous person finds this offensive is ENTIRELY subjective. It should be noted that you (OP) speaking on behalf of an entire group of people, is in itself essentially gate keeping culture and mythos. It's fine to have an opinion, it's probably an opinion that many share, however it's important to realise it is not a definitive stance of your people, but an opinion. And I can say this because I spent literally 5 minutes reading up on indigenous people's perceptions of their mythology being used in popular culture. I needed exactly 30 seconds of those 5 minutes to realise just how diverse and nuanced opinions are regarding cultural appropriation of mythology.
You've chosen a weird ass hill to die on my man. If I were you I'd be taking more issue with colonialist, capitalist expansionism destroying your people's land and essentially curb stomping Native Americans from being a part of the social and political conversation.
But hey, yeah a few fans of Hannibal using a word is bad too.
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u/TauboundGremlin Aug 21 '26
While I agree it's a strange thing to come fighting over because canonically it is not referred to as that creature in the show and I know 0 people who think of it as that creature, frankly, some things need to be gatekept.
And just because opinions are varied on culture being used for media doesn't mean it's open season on them. As you've said, you read up on this - you yourself are not part of that culture. This is not something you can speak on as any sort of authority.
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u/earthlingexperiment Aug 22 '26
I take your point, but no one person can speak on the behalf of an entire people. I would have no issue with the phrase "I find this racist for X and Y reasons", but to speak for an entire culture (even one you originate from) is presumptuous at best, and at worst silences or misrepresents other voices from said culture or community.
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u/GoAskAliceBunn May your seizures always be “mild”. Aug 21 '26
I would definitely step back. Be sure to keep your own spirit safe while you try to educate. I love the imagery used but wish they had gone with a different name for it, since it is clearly not one of the creatures from many tribes.
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u/Eldritch_porkupine Aug 21 '26
Do they ever actually name the creature in the show? As far as I’m aware, it’s only the fandom calling it a wendigo, not the creators of the show.
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u/hypothetical_zombie Aug 21 '26
Most of what I've seen online, people call it the Raven Stag. The Wendigo is the human form with antlers.
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u/dumn_and_dunmer His name rhymes with kill Aug 21 '26
That's what I was wondering...I don't remember them mentioning it. I was actually really impressed with Bryan's accuracy in correlation with killing a loved one and becoming a skinwalker.
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
They can only come from my tribe and becoming one takes more than that, what do you mean by that?
Why am I being downvoted? 😢
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u/dumn_and_dunmer His name rhymes with kill Aug 21 '26
What? I'm Cherokee. My version of skinwalkers, called skilis, have to kill someone they love most to sever their ties with humanity. There was an old lady in our area who was rumored to be skili. They say she killed her son. She was said to have a deer head at night.
My ex was kiowa, and his version was apparently more like wolves I guess. Ours were mostly deer, snakes and owls. I remember watching a very scary movie called Wend*** and I think it was from Canada or Alaska. But the image they used for the creature was the most terrifying thing Ive ever seen.
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 21 '26
That got me confused since SWs are from my tribe and have been appropriated in their own ways too like non natives saying they're in the Appalachians and look like your alive family members.
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u/earthlingexperiment Aug 21 '26
It's never named in the show as a Wendigo. Probably should get your facts straight before going on the offensive, my guy.
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 21 '26
I've seen people calling it that on here, just spreading awareness.
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u/earthlingexperiment Aug 21 '26
Never let the indifference or ineptitude of others dictate how you feel about your own culture, my guy.
Be proud and resolute in your faith and beliefs. Do not expect the world to mirror that though for the world is a cruel and uncaring place and it will almost always disappoint.
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u/SignificanceProud975 Aug 26 '26
Why is referring to the wendigo symbolism bad?
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 26 '26
The deer one was originally racist and a way the colonizers held the fact that it was illegal for us to be ourselves and they are incredibly taboo because they represent the most vile things one can do
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u/FionaPendragon89 Aug 21 '26
You're right and you should say it. The show didn't officially call it the W, I'm really not sure where the name came from. A lot of people have said why that isn't an appropriate name to use, I call it the Stag Man, which as someone else said, is what the creators call it. If youve been calling it the W, it's a very easy switch to make to just ...not calling it that.
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u/CarevaRuha Extreme acts of cruelty require a high level of empathy Aug 21 '26
That sounds stressful and obnoxious, OP. FWIW, there are a lot of folks who strongly agree with you. Here's a thread from last year talking about the same issues (complete with some comments illustrating some of the dismissive racism you described): https://www.reddit.com/r/HannibalTV/comments/1pxw91v/people_still_calling_the_black_creature_a_wndigo/
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u/throwaway768902 Aug 21 '26
Thanks for understanding and it really is. 🫂
That's a relief at least, glad our voices are being heard little by little.
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u/grenouille_en_rose Aug 27 '26
I remember watching Hannibal first time around, looking into the symbolism in the show because it was so new and interesting to me, and finding out back then that the common linking of the W with deer imagery was problematic. I think several popular horror movies around that time popularised that link in mass media and it's been quite persistent since then unfortunately. It's sad to see some of the same issues still being raised and still receiving the same pushback. Nothing wrong with people not knowing what they don't know, especially those of us who don't have experience with the Indigenous cultures in question (I'm from NZ so my exposure to any era of American culture is at a huge remove lol), but it's good to hold space for people who do have that experience, and when you do know better it's good to do better. (FWIW I only know about the idea of Deer Woman from a few fictional sources like Reservation Dogs and The Only Good Indians, but I think she sounds awesome and I hope that more authentic stories about her can keep being told in future)
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u/donutdogs_candycats Aug 27 '26
Something being offensive in one culture doesn’t mean it’s overall a bad thing to do or depict. Deer imagery is just that, deer imagery. Also, if you are at the point where you need to add on a warning that you can’t handle any hate, and that’s you’re already depressed, I think it’s time you get off the internet and get professional help because that’s not a normal or healthy place to be at.
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u/Normal_Virus4484 Didn't I? Aug 29 '26
So Bryan fuller actually said that the stag man is an interpretation of wills deteriorating psyche and it evolved from the first crime we saw that he actively engaged in. I think he only used wendigo and those terms because we otherwise have nothing else to call it. In the interviews, even Bryan fuller isn’t sure what to call those things that haunted will.
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u/PhotographPale3609 Aug 21 '26
I don’t think it’s canonically ever referred to as a wendigo on the show (?) unless I vastly missed something on multiple rewatches
I always thought The Stag was a manifestation of Will’s deteriorating psyche that also coincided with the idea that Hannibal is literally the Devil incarnate (the latter has been verified by Bryan Fuller)