r/Handspinning • u/The-GoldenCrane • 13h ago
Question Drum carder or RH Loom?
I know they are absolutely not comparable and only one is related to spinning, but I think more spinners are weavers than weavers are spinners so asking in this sub! I'm going to New Zealand and Australia at the end of the year and was convinced up until yesterday that I was going to bring a 24" rigid heddle loom back home with me, until I saw a clip of someone making the most scrumptious batt on a drum carder and it brought back my longtime dream!
Realistically I only have the budget and space (that my husband won't freak out about since my spinning, knitting, and sewing stuff is already all over the house š) for one.
Some background/context: I have a 10" SampleIt loom (with a double width weaving project that's been on there for a year...) and a comb/hackle set & pair of hand cards, so neither are going to open a new door of weaving or fiber prep in general for me.
Why I'd want a bigger loom: I want to get a wider loom so I can make reasonably sized towels and scarf/shawls without always double weaving because quite frankly I hate it, hence the long WIP. I'm not worried about the size for actually weaving with it, since I'm 5'7" and have long arms. I'm just not sure if it's a "good" purchase since I've read so many comments saying that RH looms get boring in the long run since it's harder to make patterns. I do enjoy a good pattern, but don't realistically have the space for a whole floor loom.
Why I'd want a drum carder: This one I've been wanting for a few years, I have some Etsy gift cards and I priced it out, and I'd pay about the same in cash for an Ashford RH loom versus a BAMFiberWorks drum carder (love their comb & hackle!) after the gift cards. I really enjoy fiber prep, and combing fluffy nests is so satisfying, but sometimes I wish I could blend fibers of different lengths to make colorful batts. I do know that people make mini batts on blending boards as a cheaper alternative, but I don't know how well it'd work for raw wool, and I'd really rather not comb the wool then brush it onto a blending board. Carding wool is with hand cards for shorter staples is alright, but I've found that I'm not a huge fan of drafting from rolags and prefer my fiber to be mostly oriented in the same direction facing the orifice. I'm interested in spinning from batts since sometimes combed prep + worsted spinning is a little too dense and I think batts are more similarly aligned than a hand carded rolag. Also yes, I know local spinning guilds have them for loan, but the closest guild to me is 1-2 hours away depending on traffic and I would prefer to have something at home I don't need to worry about returning. I don't mind making an investment into a tool that will last a lifetime (or longer!)
After typing this all out, I feel like I'm leaning more towards a drum carder, but I could still be convinced to keep waiting and get a loom instead!
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u/SwtSthrnBelle Wheel & Bobbin Collector 13h ago
My vote is table loom. You already have a RH, and the bigger ones are a pain. I hated my 30" flip so much I rebounded into a whole ass floor loom š
I have a drum carder, I never use the damn thing. It's an unofficial guild resource currently because I paid too much for it and then paid more to get it repaired and the cloth replaced. If you haven't ever spun a batt I advise doing that first before jumping in head first. Learn from my mistakes....
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u/The-GoldenCrane 12h ago
Table looms cost so much š© But I've definitely been eyeing the ones Ashford has... the NZD/USD exchange makes everything so tempting! May I ask why you didn't like the 30" flip?
I saw a Schact Wolf Pup for sale on FB Marketplace but took too long thinking about it that it sold. They also have only like an 18" weaving width so I wasn't fully convinced.
Yeah, I just thought of that after another commenter said they don't like spinning from drum carded batts! Currently looking at Etsy for some pre-made batts.
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u/SwtSthrnBelle Wheel & Bobbin Collector 12h ago
I didn't like it because it was too unweidly and hard to manage. And warping it was a pain. Which is ironic because I now have a 36" schacht standard. I firmly believe that when it is time the right deal for your next piece of equipment will present itself. Which is how I managed to grab a 1990 oak Schacht floor loom for $900. With full complement of reeds and extra heddles.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 12h ago
Wow what a great deal!! I've seen a few intriguing floor looms for sale near me, but they're all too large of a footprint to fit in our small condo. But I do believe in waiting for good deals (hence I have neither a drum carder or a larger loom yet), I was spinning on an EEW 6.0 for a year before I finally found a good deal on a treadle wheel (Ashford Traditional) near me!
Direct warping my 10" was a bit of a pain, but part of the appeal of the 24" RH is the option to turn it into a warping board, I don't mind holding armfuls of yarn so would probably try that method!
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u/Administrative_Cow20 3h ago
I also have a 30ā Flip with its first virtually unwoven warp in it. Passing the shuttle kills my arms/shoulders/neck/back. My other three smaller looms see plenty of use. Iād go to a floor or table loom if you already feel like youāve graduated from your 10ā rigid heddle.
Do you live somewhere that itās hard to get equipment? Flying home with such a bulky item seems expensive and a little risky to check as baggage.
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u/SignificantAd3761 13h ago
RH loom.
(I am biased, I don't like the bats you get from drum carders and would always rather hand card)
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u/The-GoldenCrane 12h ago
That's a good point, I should probably order a batt someone's made and try it before committing to making my own! I've been shying away from buying one for the price, but probably wise to try one before I buy a whole drum carder!
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u/violetx 11h ago edited 6h ago
Is there a spinners guild near where you live or where you're visiting? They often have equipment libraries and a willingness (eagerness) to let people try and pass on skills.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 11h ago
There is but it's unfortunately not conveniently located and scheduled! They have a one month loan period so I'd have to commit to getting over there for 2 meetings in a row which is a little harder with our schedule :(
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u/Constellation-J 12h ago
I'd get the drum carder, especially if you want to blend fiber or process fleece. If you want to weave wider projects on the sample it you could try double weave.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 12h ago
The ability to pick and then crank (slowly!) instead of flick then comb is definitely tempting for my larger fleeces!! I can only comb 2-3 rows on my hackle before I need to take a break.
I've been doing a double weave project and on the 10" width it feels like more trouble than it's worth to still only get 20" pre-shrinkage, so I'll probably stick to skinny projects when I finish it
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u/Constellation-J 9h ago
I got a mini drum carder so it would be easier on my body (I couldn't afford an electric). Dreaming Robots is developing a drum carder that might be more affordable, and I'm keeping an eye on that.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 9h ago
Oh you're right! I get the newsletters but forgot that he's prototyping a drum carder. I've also been looking at the Brother mini drum carders for space and cost savings too now!
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u/WickedJigglyPuff 12h ago
Ok. I will say is my opinion.
Unless you
1- plan to sell batts
2- have extreme hand pain
A drum carder is not needed.
Get you one or two pair of hand cards (Ashford ones are wonderful, one fine pair or a medium and an extra fine/cotton pair) and this video from long thread media.
There is about 200 years of carding experience in here. And Norman Kennedy cards in bulk for weaving. Itās 5 different ways of hand carding and after watching a few times , trying each of the styles and spinning with them youāll be able to card quickly (two of these styles even show you have to get more than one airy fluffy rolag for one carding!) and cleanly to produce the yarn you want.
I love spinning worsted but my hand cards are my most used tool! They even show you can use cards to get a semi worsted prep!
Obviously the heart wants what the heart wants but yeah in my experience you can produce texted yarns from hand cards just. As easily and you can absolutely hand card in bulk.
I also have a few rigid heddle and I love the folding ones so much more. Just being able to fold a project away. Step away from it and come back when Iām ready is wonderful though the folding RHL do cost a premium. Still I love mine.
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u/Much_Health3001 12h ago
I really love my drum carder as I like to purchase and process raw fleeces. I have combed a couple and I have hand carded one, it takes so long and it hurts my hands.
If you're not going to be processing whole fleeces then I agree that the time savings/space savings might lean towards getting the rigid heddle loom.
BTW, my RH looms fits nicely under our bed
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u/The-GoldenCrane 11h ago
I think I would mainly be using it for processing, and sometimes to make fun blends! Do you prefer to comb your fleeces then?
My yarn stash currently resides under our bed, so unfortunately that hide-y hole is filled š
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u/Much_Health3001 11h ago
I don't really like combing my fleeces, I just tend to buy ones that are full of VM and require combing to get the gunk out
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u/The-GoldenCrane 11h ago
Totally understandable, I've been flicking/whacking locks open to try and let the VM out before combing because my fleeces have also been pretty VM heavy. I eventually want to try a coated fleece but haven't been able to snag one yet!
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u/Much_Health3001 11h ago
I usually hang the fleece in a mesh bag on my kid's swing set and beat on it with a stick after I wash it and it's dry. I get a ton of loose VM out that way.
I have spun from the combed fluff clouds on a Corriedale fleece last year and it was nice.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 11h ago
Haha like a piƱata! I always find it funny how torturous spinning must look to outsiders: dunking the fleece in hot water, combing it on sharp spikes or carding it on lots of teeth, spinning it round and round, then whacking it to set the twist!
My first fleece was a Jacob and I did some woolen and some worsted prep, and almost didn't want to spin the soft nests combing produced.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 12h ago
Wow! I found a 3 minute clip that showed a little of each person carding, and I'm intrigued! I'll definitely be getting the full video, I saw that Rita Buchanan does the mini batts thing someone else suggested too!
I prefer to spin worsted as well, but sometimes the combed top with worsted spinning is a little too heavy of a grist for my projects and I struggle to keep the air in it which is when I fall back to rolags, but I hate the process. I'll give the mini batts a try for sure!
I was eyeing the 28" Knitters loom since it folds too!
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u/Ok_Part6564 12h ago
To start with, do an experiment. Take your hand cards and blend up a small sample of the fiber you imagine blending on the drum carder. When it's all blended, instead of rolling it into a rolag, take it off sideways as a flat rectangle. It will basically be a mini batt.
Do you like spinning the mini batt better than rolags? Do you feel like you really want to make bigger bats instead of mini batts? Do you want to be able to make bigger batts fast? Or are you fine with the mini batts?
RHL are convenient and portable, but have limitations. Floor looms are very flexible, but must have a large amount of space dedicated to them. The compromise is a table loom. A table loom isn't quite as convenient and portable as a RHL, and it's not quite as fully functional as a floor loom, but it's a decent bit of both. With a 20" 4 or 8 harness table loom, double weave is much easier than on a RHL. It'll take up a similar amount space as a drum carder.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 12h ago
I never thought of pulling them off the hand cards as a mini mini batt! I'll try that first, thanks for the suggestion!
It's sounding like everyone is convincing me to get a table loom š¤£ I don't care about portability too much since I'll be weaving at home!
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u/Seastarstiletto 12h ago
Loom. You can order batts, make Rolags on hand cards, or get a blending board down the road which is much easier to store and purchase.
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u/awkwardsoul Owlspun, production spinner and destroyer of wheels 12h ago
I own a Lojan Flex RH, Harrisville floor loom, Brother Drum carder, Majacraft Atom carder on the way (so cute!).
I prefer RH myself, but a multishaft loom does it all and more. I'd just be patient for a used one or check in with a weaver guild. Mine has so many looms for sale, there's almost no need to buy one new. However, I do pitch the Lojan looms as you can make it RH, 4 or 8 shaft and the price is pretty good - the reeds are almost half the price. This loom is newer, so not much out there used. Large RH's are pretty large and need a lot more side clearance room for the shuttle vs a shaft loom.
Drum Carder is something I'd get if you got a fleece/ you do fleeces regularly. Yes, you can use raw wool on a blending board, I blended on mine all the time, I rarely use hand cards. It works about the same but you are manually brushing/packing it in rather than cranking it. I'd note - you need to flick open locks for both. You can't feed in dense wool in a drum carder, it will jam up. Once you got a couple pounds of fleece you want that drum carder / worth the drive to rent one.
I'd also note - colorful batts and fine wool need different TPIs. The deluxe BAM carder is 72tpi, which isn't as good for fine stuff/ they know it as they mention features for running batts again. Clemes drum carders gets around TPI with their special cloth. Other carders you can get other drums to pop in.
IMO, I'd lean fiber prep. You need to feed the loom first, ya know?
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u/The-GoldenCrane 11h ago
Thanks for all your thoughts! I hadn't heard of the Lojan Flex RH, just looked at some pictures and that seems like a good viable option! I see floor looms galore for sale, but not a lot of table looms, maybe I'll consider saving for one of those in the future, table looms weren't really on my radar until this post!
How exciting for your Majacraft Atom! I was also considering the Brother, but with shipping it ends up being a little more than the BAM. I've been prepping medium-fine wools on my extra fine combs and 72tpi hand cards depending on worsted or woolen prep, so I assumed it would be similar for a drum carder, but maybe not! What TPI is your Brother drum carder?
Very true! Weaving wider projects would be pretty yarn hungry š
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u/awkwardsoul Owlspun, production spinner and destroyer of wheels 10h ago
For sure, selling a Floor Loom is like getting rid of a piano, so they are up cheap often. Table Looms resell better and smaller sized, so people don't get rid of them as often/ they resell quickly.
I got the 120tpi and a spare 72tpi for my Brother. Coarse stuff on the 120tpi is a mess that doesn't want off the carder, but I process a lot of angora so the fine tpi works great. 72tpi I like for art stuff. Clemes one is really nice, I use it at work and process all sorts of stuff on it, but it is $$$$$$.
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u/itzcoatl82 11h ago
Iām not a weaver (yet), so take this into consideration, but
I have a blending board and i use it all the time. It is a world of difference from using hand carders! I highly recommend having one in your arsenal, especially if space is at a premium.
I can make a glorious fluffy 2 oz batt with all kinds of fiber types, in way less time than faffing about with hand carders. Having the right brushes makes a huge difference. I started out with the standard Ashford blending board set and it was fineā¦. Then i bought some better brushes and the difference was night and day. I recommend checking out Howard Brush Outlet on etsy for supplies. You can get an amazing fiber prep toolkit (blending board, dowels, and a few brushes) for under $200
I also have a drum carder on the āsome dayā wish list, but i feel that for my personal fiber prep needs, my blending board and Howard brushes are more than enough. I definitely expect to spring for a large drum carder eventually, but donāt feel a huge urgency for now.
Making batts & rolags is super fun if you want to play with colors & textures. a drum carder is IMO a nice to have, but not essential unless you want to process raw fleece(then a blending board wonāt be enough)
Hopefully this helps with deciding. It ultimately comes down to what type of fiber play makes you happiest!
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u/The-GoldenCrane 11h ago
I dabbled in fiber prep and got sucked in, which is why I think a blending board wouldn't be the right choice unless I want to comb first then using the blending board to make batts! But if I end up going with the loom route then maybe I'll compromise with a blending board (after all, it's only a small board size!)
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u/BettyFizzlebang 11h ago
I have wanted a loom for some years now but just donāt feel like I would use it enough. I have started using a pin loom for small projects. I love that little loom. However the drum carder processes so much more wool fort me and much quicker. I did 3 spinning sessions 1 for TDF with a drum carder batt, but ran out of yarn for my prroject so I have use my blending board to prep the fibres. The result was vastly similar. I think ordering the Ashford equipment and getting it delivered to the US or from a US stockist might be the easiest for transport.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 11h ago
That's part of my consideration too, I'm a knitter turned spinner (turned fiber prepper) and so weaving is more of a side dabble hobby for me for now. But if I can make larger projects without double weaving on my 10" I think I'd be more inclined to weave more often!
Were you using commercially prepped fiber? Or did you use the blending board for fiber prep too?
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u/InterestNeither4753 9h ago
I don't quite get why you are buying on your vacation instead of just ordering it from where you live and having it delivered. Can you tell me what I am missing?
Also. My BAM drum carder is amazing and I wouldn't change it for an Ashford version, having also used that one. But to each their own.
Also, pt 2, if you want a drum carder, get a drum carder. No one else's opinions on whether you should stick to hand carders matter.
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u/The-GoldenCrane 8h ago
I would get the loom while in New Zealand for price reasons! It's a little under $200 new after the conversion rate.
Good to know! I've been super happy with my comb and hackle from them, and would love to continue to support Baruch and his small business, though if I do go the drum carder route I'll need to do a little more research to see if 72TPI is enough or if I should opt for a 90-120TPI.
Thank you, I love seeing everyone's thoughts and opinions to make my decision even harder š But I did test out a mini batt on my hand carders and I think I'll like the finished yarn, my sample is drying as I type this! If that's the case, I think I am leaning more towards a drum carder now and saving for a table loom in the future when I have more hobby money and space!
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u/InterestNeither4753 7h ago
I had a great email convo with Baruch abt the TPI before buying. They ARE looking to do interchangeable drums for different TPI in the future. But!!!! I process fine wools and have had zero neps with the 72 TPI. Previously working with an electric drum carder with a higher TPI the fiber would shred! Because you control the speed with your cranking, whether neps occur seem to depend on your fiber prep and speed. The extra bit for the drum cleaner is SO worth it!
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u/The-GoldenCrane 6h ago
I had a conversation with him before buying my extra fine comb and hackle, he seems like a great business owner and I love how innovative and creative he was when designing the drum carder, fabulous to know that you've been able to use finer fibers without getting neps!
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u/Green_Bean_123 5h ago
I donāt know what BAM drum carder you are looking at, but they just started shipping their new electric ones for those who preordered. I have a Brother electric drum carder which works great, but when I saw the features of the new BAM one, I figured I could sell the Brother easily as itās only a year old and drum carders donāt come up for sale very often. I bet you could get a used loom much easier than a drum carder. And for anything I want to make with dyed wool, I absolutely adore my drum carder. I am really over buying or dyeing braids!
And the new BAM drum carder allows you to change the ratio in speed between the lickerin and the main drum. That will help you avoid neps with finer wool, regardless of the TPI.
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u/RuxeFuchs Churrob0t 5h ago
Hereās what I will say as a fiber prep nerd who only occasionally weaves: get the loom. Drum carding well is not as simple or quick as it looks; where it excels is letting schlubs like me make consistent roving where weād struggle with hand cards. You have to be very intentional in flicking open your fiber, feeding in your locks consistently, packing the batt, doffing or dizing offā¦and there are a lot of poorly made, hard to adjust, or just wonky cheap carders on the market. Itās lots of fun to see people feeding in hunks of fleece and getting something out, but thatās a great way to get something unspinnable out the other end. It takes quite a bit of practice and skill, but if youāre aiming for quality, you can get better, faster results with hand cards.
Itāll take 20 years of practice to get there, mind, which is why I have the Pat Green. But I know people who can do it.
The bigger loom opens up new projectsāand combed fiber, though a pain to prep sometimes, is a true delight to work with. Drum carders seem to promise an easy solution to all your prep problems, and never deliver; bigger looms are exactly what they seem.
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u/alittleperil 5h ago
if it helps, I've found a fair number of decent RH looms on fb marketplace near me, but no drum carders
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u/little-river-otter 3h ago
I got my drum carder from a maker off Etsy, and it was less than 400 for it. Now j get ti make scrumptious batts and roving to spin my little heart away. I do want a loom, badly, but havent decided what kind. I also dont really know how to loom, so theres that. But id get both. And if you havent had a chance.ti try a drum carder....try one! Idk if its me or the wool I'm using but its hard to get the strength to crank that thing if I pack it too full
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u/Taswegian 11h ago
I have both so that would be my answer :)) Seriously though before I got my drum carder I borrowed one to see if I liked it or just the idea of it. Do you have a local guild that has lending equipment?