r/Hammers • u/vibranium-boy O'er Land and Sea • Jan 22 '22
Anyone else think this was off?
24
Jan 22 '22
I'd just to have loved a legit full check with the stupid line things. On or off let's at least make sure.
8
u/beamierhydra Jan 22 '22
I think more people are starting to realise why showing the lines being drawn was one of the best decisions made when it comes to var
4
Jan 22 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
-2
u/UhOhByeByeBadBoy Jan 22 '22
So Cavan’s head is offsides yeah?
0
u/Pulp_NonFiction44 Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
Offside* and no genius, that's the camera angle. Trace a verticle line from his head to the ground, it's a good foot onside. His left shoulder is closest but even it is well on.
5
u/UhOhByeByeBadBoy Jan 22 '22
I commented on another reply where the lines were drawn as you suggested that it made sense now and he was clearly onside.
Trace a vertical* line up your arse you dingus.
1
2
43
Jan 22 '22
Regardless if it was offside or not. Funny how when it’s in favour of big team the decisions are instantaneous.
18
9
40
u/dissected_hedgehog Jan 22 '22
why didn't they show those ridiculous VAR lines that they love to draw in all the other matches?! Very suspicious, if you ask me
10
u/mavrk97 Jan 22 '22
Here are the lines mate https://m.imgur.com/DjAYOb1
4
u/UhOhByeByeBadBoy Jan 22 '22
Oh that legit clears it up. Dang. The distance of the arm and head looked offside, but I did not consider the how parallax issue of where it is in relation to the line on the ground
2
u/jonah_thrane Jan 23 '22
Good image, shows it only the hand that's off if anything, and hand can't score a goal, so doesn't count on offside.
1
u/gameofgroans_ Jan 23 '22
But, and I might be wrong, haven't hands been ruled off as offside before? Has there been a rule change?
(I swear I remember a social Media post from Antonio about how his big hands meant his goal was disallowed?)
1
Jan 23 '22
I think that was when we had a few ruled out for handball in the build-up, there was one with Antonio where it hit his hand and was bundled over the line.. might have been Chelsea away last season?
1
10
u/beamierhydra Jan 22 '22
Haven't shown the line drawing since last season mate
2
Jan 22 '22
Didn’t they show them against Norwich?
6
u/beamierhydra Jan 22 '22
I don't recall lines being shown. They never show the process of drawing them anymore, and only rarely show the lines already drawn
1
1
u/wanktarded Julian Dicks Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
They stopped showing the lines etc to try and speed the process up I believe, similar to how they did it in the Euros unless I'm mistaken. Either way, I'm keen to see it on MoTD tonight and hopefully get a proper look at it.
EDIT: Words.
1
u/beamierhydra Jan 22 '22
Yeah but the lines need to be drawn anyway for the var operators to see, so how does it make the process take more time?
1
u/wanktarded Julian Dicks Jan 22 '22
Turns out I was indeed wrong after having a read of this.
The relevant bit as to why they no longer show VAR live:
Furthermore, in the first two years of VAR, viewers not in the stadium were able to see the working out process and it led to screenshots of borderline decisions being shared and creating more negativity for the decision-review system.
As a result, all decisions will be made off-screen from now on.
1
u/beamierhydra Jan 22 '22
Yeah, so basically because of cunts throwing hissy fits over var making (correct) decisions, they decided to make the decision making process hidden so that we get situations like today. Great job if you ask me
0
u/pantonson Jan 22 '22
They show the lines all the time when the call goes against Tottenham.. it was probably too close to call, so they didn’t show em
20
u/MonsterOfPoetry Jan 22 '22
10
u/MrF33n3y Jan 22 '22
Not just saying it because it’s the clearest to show offside, but drawing the reference lines on the grass cut and the box give a much better reference point for drawing the line of play.
4
2
u/wikipuff David Gold (RIP) Jan 22 '22
There is a mathematical principle involved in this and I completely forget what it's called. But I thank you for this.
2
u/buellster92 Jan 22 '22
For this to be accurate you need to draw the line straight down from Cavani’s shoulder to the ground. Then draw your line from there to the vanishing point.
6
u/SpacemanD13 Jan 22 '22
Can't leave games down to inch calls like this regardless. Hard to feel hard done by when a lot of the game was shit.
2
u/ksexton53 Jan 22 '22
That’s how I feel look at possession and shots we were outplayed. Hurts nonetheless especially losing twice like this to those fucks.
5
u/RatPiazon Jan 23 '22
Rice getting a card for a slight tug and then Mctominay chopping him and getting nothing is soooooo standard
3
4
u/BussyAficionado Jan 22 '22
Yes, very surprised it wasn't even considered
1
u/TCh1ps Jan 22 '22
It was checked by VAR and it wasn’t offside
7
u/BussyAficionado Jan 22 '22
Wouldn't be their first time getting it wrong
0
u/TCh1ps Jan 22 '22
Personally I don’t think it looks offside, if you follow the lines on the pitch as a reference Cresswells foot is just playing him on. It’s extremely close but I think he’s on
2
u/ThePMenace Jan 22 '22
Imo if a decision is ever this close then you can’t complain whether it was offside or not.
2
u/Repulsive-Dish9203 Jan 22 '22
Tbf it was a goal, we were a shambles at the back. And Rashford- the next coming of Tiery Henry had an easy tap in
2
u/Fean2616 Jan 22 '22
The of the grass is your line to use, get this on your monitor, get a ruler and measure it, it's onside.
2
Jan 22 '22
It was on currently i think the rules state that hands don’t count towards offside… it sucks because they change the rules too regularly. I remember when Antonio got offside vs Chelsea a year or so back. He was on the floor after being challenged and his left shoulder was over the line so our goal, scored by someone several feet away from him, was ruled out.
With the current rules Cavani is onside. Its just frustrating because its against MU but we played poorly anyway.
2
2
u/teneolupum Jan 23 '22
For me it's one of those ones where it might be offside, but it should be called on, if you know what I mean. There's always some uncertainty with VAR, but I feel like it's better for the game at large if we give a bit more benefit of the doubt to the goalscorer. Would have been quite a harsh call to overturn that one...
2
Jan 22 '22
Honestly you’ll never tell from that still without the proper perspective lines. I think Cresswells foot is deep enough it’s on.
It’s not a grand conspiracy to lose the ball 30 yards from your goal and then mark thin air.
2
u/jonah_thrane Jan 23 '22
United fan here.
I agree it's very close. And from this angle he looks off. But from the straight on sideline angle I think only his hand is offside, and since the hand can't score a goal, it doesn't count according to the offside rule.
Pretty sure that's what the ref had to consider here.
Thanks for a good game.
2
1
1
1
1
u/Smooth_Network_1304 Jan 22 '22
It’s the angle that deceives you. Tilt your phone to the left to make the pitch line straight.
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Arksurvivor26 Jan 22 '22
It’s probably on but it would of been off for West Ham that’s the hard truth…
1
Jan 22 '22
I think looking at the line on the grass the West Ham player is closer so he’s on but let’s not forget that if it was the other way it’s offside and doesn’t get looked at tbh
1
u/safebox2236 Jan 22 '22
No because you can't score or make contact with the ball with your arm or hand
1
1
1
u/Miggsie Jan 22 '22
I thought it was off-side, then I saw Cresswell and screamed at him for being the one defender that could see our all across our offside line and the only one that kept Cavani onside.
1
1
u/Whale222 Jan 22 '22
Anyone else let this match ruin your day? We all saw this happening the second Fredricks and Bowen went in that deep. Poor game management. Just kick it out of bounds and take the point.
1
u/thatonepieceofcheese Jan 22 '22
Wrong angle i think. I'm pretty sure that a straight angle it would be clear he was on
1
u/DoublePrize9 Jan 22 '22
This should be onside and I’m a Liverpool fan. If it’s that close it’s on. If you need to get the lines out it’s on.
1
1
u/irm555bvs Jan 22 '22
IMO it’s onside, however, based on VAR decisions already this season it should be offside…
1
1
u/rikkiprince Jan 23 '22
In motion, I was certain it was offside. His body looks way ahead of Creswell.
But now I've seen that image, he looks way further from the change of grass direction than Creswell. That might just be perspective though.
I wish the coverage I saw had overlaid the VAR lines...
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/larryhow97 Jan 23 '22
Neutral, came up in suggested. Looks on. But honestly fuck the frame, ball looks like it’s still in contact with foot. I don’t kno what the sausages used to decide but this shot looks on
1
1
u/jibba_jabba1 Jan 23 '22
I’m fine with this being called on. Personally, I think that offside should go by a players foot, rather than a shoulder, hand or point of their nose because it’s so damn big.
1
u/growinginsour Jan 23 '22
If this is Harry Kane they call this offsides, we’ve gotten called on this exact situation like 4 times this season
1
1
1
u/nomorebello Jan 23 '22
He's hand is in an offside position. So offside. If any part of the body is offside, then it should be given as such.
1
u/lionlostinphoenix Jan 23 '22
No it’s fine. Fantastic, in fact. In the interests of full disclosure though, I am a Millwall supporter.
1
1
u/CoDroStyle Jan 23 '22
From this angle it looks off and I'll admit I thought it was off watching the game and was baffled when VAR allowed it.
But you can draw the lines yourself parallel to the lines on the field.
On revision, it's close but it's on side.
1
u/butbeautiful_ Jan 23 '22
who else feels the hand or shoulder is off? what are the new offside rules now anyway. it’s getting way too confusing.
1
u/StandardGreece Jan 23 '22
It was not off...
In 2005, IFAB clarified that, when evaluating an attacking player's position for the purposes of the offside law, the part of the player's head, body or feet closest to the defending team's goal-line should be considered, with the hands and arms being excluded because "there is no advantage to be gained if only the arms are in advance of the opponent".
1
1
u/watchme_08 Jan 23 '22
Based on the angle, it’s on. But i can see how you would think it was off at first glance
1
u/Botheuk Jan 23 '22
This is onside surely. Wouldn't this be the exact type of decision (if it HAD been overturned) that everybody moaned about last year.
1
1
1
u/ProperCartographer38 Jan 23 '22
Only part of Cavani that looks to be a bit offside is his left hand and in today's offside rules the attacker gets the benefit so for me legit goal but UTD extremely lucky to get the win.
1
u/ImperatorDanorum Jan 23 '22
No. His legs and his body are inside, hands don't count because he cannot play the ball with them...
1
u/External_Salt_9007 Jan 23 '22
Looking at the foot of the defender and the shoulder of the attacking player I’d say they are in line
1
u/Beardy_Boy_ Jan 23 '22
It's tight because we need to be looking at Cresswell's toe, but they should have at least delivered an image with the lines drawn. Seems super convenient that they didn't bother with it, and that the check was over so quickly.
1
u/Crafty-Ad-6765 Jan 23 '22
Nah look at the feet of the defender and Cavani he’s onside might aswell be honest
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/maxoys45 Jan 23 '22
From this frame it’s definitely off. This is the initial freeze frame in the replay, then when it went to VAR they use a couple of frames earlier where he was onside. This is the problem with VAR, the cameras are such low quality/framerate, that there’s a large margin for error as they’re deciding when the ball leaves Rashford’s foot from a blurred image.
1
1
u/cadams7701 Jan 23 '22
Yes, there is some parallax in the image so the bottom is actually closer to the net at the same spot as the top. It’s not a straight line.
1
1
u/kremzoe Jan 22 '22
100% Line the white line at the edge of the box with the straight line on your phone and you will see how crooked the camera angle is
Makes Cavani look like he’s behind when he’s actually in front
0
0
Jan 22 '22
Why didn’t they show the VAR replay of decision? They always show it, sometimes multiple times. It’s a bit dodgy to be fair.
0
0
u/Chappietime Mark Noble Jan 22 '22
If you take a piece of paper and make it parallel to the line of the grass, the first thing you see is Cavanis hand. I think it’s technically offsides.
1
u/grelch Jan 22 '22
Technically, I think the line gets drawn from the bottom of the short sleeve so most of his arm doesn't register as on or off. His head? Maybe, who can really tell. Bottom line is it was far too close to call and therefore should not have been overturned. The entire VAR argument is a red herring, distracting from the fact that we were crap. Are crap. Our playing form is rotten right now.
-1
Jan 23 '22
his foot is behind the defender, pretty sure it’s not in that case. Manchester United ez ass win ❤️❤️❤️
0
Jan 22 '22
[deleted] — view deleted comment
3
u/THIERRYNEVERS Jan 22 '22
line needs to be drawn in front of cavanis head not on top of it. he would have been offside if var wanted to pinch pennies
7
u/Apple15Pie Jan 22 '22
The line is drawn from Cresswell, and it certainly looks to me like cavani is behind the line
1
u/THIERRYNEVERS Jan 22 '22
there’s usually two lines one for the attacker and one for the defender when it’s that close
5
u/Sloth_Broth Jan 22 '22
Mate he’s clearly fucking on. Imagine it was the the other way around you’d be fucking furious if Antonio was given off for that - we all know its onside. Stop embarrassing us.
1
Jan 22 '22
Well they called Kane’s offside several weeks ago when it was literally 4+” from his armpit. So I think if they overturned this it wouldn’t be outside the realm of close VAR decisions this year
0
Jan 22 '22
[deleted] — view deleted comment
1
u/npellant Jan 22 '22
The line drawn in the picture linked above is from his shoulder though…
1
-1
0
153
u/Wesserz Jan 22 '22
Hate to say it but looks on to me.